5-Star Featured Crystal Change Discussion Thread

Summoners!

We've just released some more information on the future of the 5-Star Featured Crystal here: https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/43300/upcoming-changes-to-5-star-featured-crystal

We know you've got questions, and this is the place to ask and discuss!

FAQ

Will you announce the pool of 18 each time it changes?
We do plan on sharing the list every time the crystal is updated.

Can you buy the 5 star featured crystal with units or only shards?
This crystal is replacing the currently available 15,000 Shard Featured Hero Crystals.

So does it means that if a new champ comes to the Battle Realm we won't be able to get them as a 5* right away?
You will still be able to get them in the Grandmaster Featured Crystal, but they will not be available in a featured 5-Star Hero Shard Crystal until they are added to this new Crystal. So, this might mean having to wait a little while to get some Champions, but it also gives you a shot at 6 New Champions at a time, as well as a smaller Basic pool.

Comments

Jrendon13

Will this be available to all players or jut the uncollected?

DNA3000

Jaffacaked wrote: »

round3r wrote: »

FIRST, for those of us playing for 2+ years, we remember how RARE 5* used to be. The featured crystal was there so you could save up and land a champ you REALLY wanted. It was to be THE centerpiece of your Roster and make it UNIQUE. Shards were rare, T4CC were scarce, and T2A were non-existent… So your decisions mattered and your trophy was earned. It was a source of pride and accomplishment, as everyone was jealous of “that guy” with a duped 5* Dorm in AW.

But now, 5* shards are more available than ever, as Kabam is gears everyone up for 6-stars (like it or not). So being able to “CHOOSE” a 5-star champ isn’t a unique thing anymore. Instead of studying the Character Spotlights, forums, reddit and fighting duels to see if a Champ fit your playing style and roster needs (before you poured all your hard-earned resources into it), people just wait for the YouTube consensus Top Champ (remember DS?) and build the “ideal” roster. No faster way to unbalance a game than when everyone uses the SAME three champs.

SECOND, the new Featured 5* Crystal will reduce the frustration of spending 15k a pop on outdated, low-prestige, weak champs with a more focused pool. When Blade first came out I spent 45k on Iron Patriot, Colossus and Groot (my last 15k pulled Blade, and grinned ear-to-ear for a week), but a better pool of consolation champs would have been great.

More importantly, it will return us to the days where the ‘regular’ 5* Crystal only had a small pool of Champs… So duping a 5* and earning precious 6* Shards will be easier! Just wait for a Crystal [pool] that overlaps a majority of your roster… and you’ll finally be able to dupe that Starlord, Storm or Magik <i>and</i> rack up 6* shards towards a new Trophy Champ. Which btw is now available via the 6-Star Featured Crystal (assuredly replacing the old 5* Feature).

ULTIMATELY, as the Game, Champs and Rewards continued to expand… This move was inevitable. Imho it will maintain the variety, rarity ratio, game balance and sense of accomplishment we’ve previously had. Kabam makes a lot of mistakes (I genuinely never thought I'd defend them), but I don’t believe this is one.

P.S. To everyone peeing their pants about Blade (because they undervalued/ignored him when he was originally available), Kabam did you a solid… You will still get your shot.

P.P.S. While I welcome newer players in general (who weren’t even playing when Blade came out), don’t think for one second that you deserve a god-tier 5* after 90 days. Stick to COD and lag switches… Your sense of entitlement makes me sick. You need to SUFFER thru all the nerfs, loss of PB Synergy, the v12 patch, weekly AW rule changes, et al. like the rest of us before you deserve him.

Funny how they kept the 300 unit FGMC tho hey. Seems it's ok to if you willing to spend

I don't see how that's relevant to the post you quoted. The idea of the post you quoted that is relevant here is that since 5* shards - the "currency" we use to buy featured 5* crystals - is now much easier to acquire and amass, the things we buy with that currency should be reexamined relative to that new situation. In net effect, the 5* featured crystal is several times cheaper than it used to be.

The featured GMC is something we buy with units, and if Kabam changed the game in such a way that units became five times easier to get than now I would fully expect the things we buy with units to be reevaluated if not rebalanced.

N0Name

Oh i liked it

MarzGroove

I thought of something I like about this change:

For example (if there were going to be no featured crystal changes), I am trying to decide if I want to purchase the featured 5* crystal for Medusa, but I don't know what champs will be released before I am able to recuperate the shards spent. Will I pay for a shot at Medusa thereby not giving myself a chance at the next featured 5*?

Now with this change, it is less risky for me to go for Medusa, since if a good champ comes out after her, then I have 3 months to save shards. In addition, since the new crystal will run for 3 months instead of a week, then I will have a lot more info on which to base my purchase.

DNA3000

Thiefcompany wrote: »

MarzGroove wrote: »

I thought of something I like about this change:

For example (if there were going to be no featured crystal changes), I am trying to decide if I want to purchase the featured 5* crystal for Medusa, but I don't know what champs will be released before I am able to recuperate the shards spent. Will I pay for a shot at Medusa thereby not giving myself a chance at the next featured 5*?

Now with this change, it is less risky for me to go for Medusa, since if a good champ comes out after her, then I have 3 months to save shards. In addition, since the new crystal will run for 3 months instead of a week, then I will have a lot more info on which to base my purchase.

Do you have a brain?with the new “feautured” crystal,you have no chance for the desired hero,because the pool is too big,the odds are very low and the crystal is 15k.i do not think that you have a brain.

That's unwarranted. If you want to play who has an actual brain, then deal me in.

If you specifically want one, and only one of the champions in the new featured crystal, then the odds of pulling that one champion are one in twenty four. Different players earn 5* shards at different rates, but it isn't hard to save up four to six shots at a featured crystal in three months. If you take six shots at the new featured, the odds of pulling a single champion you want at least once are about 23%. That's roughly the same as the odds of pulling featured with the current featured crystal in one pull now.

So if you believe that there's "no chance" at a specific champion in the new featured crystal, and you believe you have to not have a brain to think you have any significant chance at one specific champion, then you also believe anyone who opens only one current featured crystal to take their chances is even more brainless than that.

That's the numbers. But @MarzGroove wasn't actually talking about the specific chances to pull a particular champion. Marz was talking about buyers remorse. If you spend all of your shards shooting for a champion you want, you could be depleted entirely when another champion comes around that you will have no shot at. Now, with the current crystal that isn't as much of a problem as Marz was suggesting because of crystal reruns. But when you go all in on brains, it would be a good idea to not miss the point of the post you're replying to, and then do so in a way that's also factually incorrect.

tutyimutyi

If your math is correct,i think it is,with 6 crystals you have 23% chance for the desired one.so.even if you have 24 featured,which costs 360k 5* shards,that is still just 92%.good improvement....

DNA3000

tutyimutyi wrote: »

If your math is correct,i think it is,with 6 crystals you have 23% chance for the desired one.so.even if you have 24 featured,which costs 360k 5* shards,that is still just 92%.good improvement....

You can't add probabilities like that, but that's besides the point. If your one and only reason to purchase a featured crystal is to get a shot at one, and only one champion, and all other champions are considered worthless, then the new crystal is obviously less valuable than the current one. That's not in dispute, and anyone disputing it is mathematically illiterate.

But that's an extremely narrow way to look at the crystal. If that is the one and only way someone intends to look at it, this thread is of no use to them. Kabam isn't reversing the decision because there are a lot of reasons for making the change that are completely outside that perspective, and Kabam isn't adopting it. The question of whether the crystal offers a better or worse chance to pull one single featured champion is settled, and also moot.

Outside of that very narrow perspective, there are other ways to look at the value of the new crystal. First, not everyone only cares about getting one specific champion. So the value of the crystal has to be evaluated relative to its net value relative to the net value of the current crystal. Admittedly, with their initial curated basic champions and the value of the most recent featured champions, that value appears to be subjectively lower than a featured crystal with an extremely high demand champion. But the contents will change over time and comparing it to the absolute best current featured crystals isn't entirely fair, because many of the current-style featured crystals also contained much lower value.

The other thing to consider is that we are getting far more 5* shards than when the featured crystal was first introduced. Statistically speaking, even if all you care about is targeting one single champion out of the entire crystal, your odds of pulling that one champion are about the same for both crystals if the number of shots you take at the new crystal is about five times higher than the number of shots you took at the current version. And that number is roughly in the ballpark for how much more plentiful 5* shards are today than they were when the featured crystal was first introduced. Taken as a whole, it is not entirely clear to me that the situation is significantly worse. Five shots for a twenty percent chance at a specific featured plus you get four other 5* champions verses one shot at a twenty percent change at a specific featured.

Given a choice between the old featured and the new featured, I would choose the old featured. But that's not necessarily a choice anyone is allowed to have. If the new featured is part of the escalation of 5* availability, then the actual real choice was between the old crystal and the old restricted availability, and the new crystal combined with the new more plentiful availability. Given that choice, I would pick the higher availability and the new crystal. We are moving towards having the same chance at getting one specific champion, plus having a higher chance at getting better champions on average, *plus* getting more 5* champions in total. That's a net positive for everyone except the people who think they can ask to keep the massive increase in shards but lose everything else about the changes they don't like, like an ala carte buffet.

Getting back to the math. The odds of pulling a featured champ from the featured 5* crystal has been estimated to be about 20%. That means the odds of not pulling featured are 80%. The odds of not pulling one specific champion from the new crystal is 23/24 or about 95.8%. The odds of not pulling the featured even once out of N pulls is 1 - (23/24)^N. Therefore, the odds of pulling at least one featured champion is the same when 0.8 = (23/24)^N. Therefore N = log(0.8) / (log(23/24) = 5.2. The odds of pulling one specific champion from the new crystal is thus identical to the odds of pulling at least one featured from the current crystal when the number of tries with the new crystal is 5.2 times the number of tries with the current crystal.

The odds of pulling one specific champion from the new featured at least once out of 24 pulls is 64%. The odds are never equal to or higher than 100%, because there is always a chance for every single pull to fail, however small those odds might be. Counterbalanced against the apparently low odds are the odds of pulling more than one.

Daddylonglegs93

DNA3000 wrote: »

Admittedly, with their initial curated basic champions and the value of the most recent featured champions, that value appears to be subjectively lower than a featured crystal with an extremely high demand champion. But the contents will change over time and comparing it to the absolute best current featured crystals isn't entirely fair, because many of the current-style featured crystals also contained much lower value.

The other thing to consider is that we are getting far more 5* shards than when the featured crystal was first introduced. Statistically speaking, even if all you care about is targeting one single champion out of the entire crystal, your odds of pulling that one champion are about the same for both crystals if the number of shots you take at the new crystal is about five times higher than the number of shots you took at the current version. And that number is roughly in the ballpark for how much more plentiful 5* shards are today than they were when the featured crystal was first introduced. Taken as a whole, it is not entirely clear to me that the situation is significantly worse. Five shots for a twenty percent chance at a specific featured plus you get four other 5* champions verses one shot at a twenty percent change at a specific featured.

Lot of good points, but a couple things:

5* shards are more plentiful now than when first released, yes. They are not, however, much more plentiful than they were a month ago, and Kabam has not announced an increase to war rewards or anything like that to go with these changes to make them more plentiful in the future. Featured GMCs were also not a factor when 5*s were first introduced. That's a huge point your excellent math misses. GMCs are not going to be any cheaper in two months nor are units going to be any more plentiful, as near as I can tell. Notice Uncollected EQ rewards very pointedly do not include any units. This matters because the current balance of power is built very much on the old featured crystal, the current availability of shards, and the presence of FMGCs, not on what the game looked like when 5*s were brand new and new content wasn't built primarily for them.

You say we just have to accept that in the new system, it won't be possible to reliably go for a specific champion because it's just not what's intended. I say that's patently false, because the rich will just buy FGMCs until they do get exactly who they want, same as they do now, while the rest of us will no longer have a realistic hope of keeping up. Which means the spenders at the top of the game will just pull further and further away from the rest of us, because they will have access to power levels and game mechanics the rest of us will get on a 3-to-6-month delay (I say 6 in case a 5* basic arena comes up eventually), and only then unreliably. That's what really sucks about this. Not just that it makes things harder for us - 12.1 did that, the loss of block proficiency teams did that, and both were excellent overall moves for the game. What sucks here is how much it gives a further advantage to big spenders beyond what they already enjoy. That's brutally unfair and worth complaining about. I'm not comforted by getting about the same rate of great characters I was getting a year and a half ago if my war opponents are picking up shiny new attackers and defenders at about the same rate they are now. Can't you see how that's a huge problem?

Beyond that, rank up resources are more common now, but not so common that spending 4 t2a on someone like Rhino makes any sense. So for those of us unlucky enough to have not yet pulled more than one or two r4-worthy champions (luckily I'm not in this group, but several of my friends are), the choice is to either not complete content you know you can because the rewards will expire in your stash or to use those resources to make what everyone knows is a mistake, all because Kabam decided its free-to-play community had it too easy nowadays. And remember, this new unreliable crystal is still something we're expected to pay a 50% premium to have access to. 50% extra for a ~4% chance of who I want and then a bunch of mediocrity is a terrible deal relative to just pouring shards into basics, which means they've very nearly destroyed the feature crystal. Again, that leaves their paid cousins, and therefore screws anyone (not blessed with prodigious luck) who doesn't want to take out a second mortgage to compete at a high level.

And that is not good for the long-term health of this game.

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Rayz35

Changes should always be a better progression towards the players. Instead of randomly selected champs of 18 + 6 featured champs for 5 star featured, they should be 18 of the latest 5* additions + 6 featured champs. After all, we, the players are forking out an extra 5k red shards ( 50% more). It should be an exciting pool of champs instead of trying our luck for better odds. Just my opinion:)

gohard123

CpcBoyboy wrote: »

If 5* star basic arena will come u all will cry. Cause on ur low 5* roaster . Many spender have already all 5* champs u can’t compete against them in arena they have 20-30 5* teams or need to refresh a lot means cost a lot . 5* arena will be only for 5* will be a pain and I guess only a top50 like 4* in 2015 lol so cutoff will be 20m with 3-5 Odins in refresh ahaha

When was it said that only 5* champions are eligible for 5* arena? The previous 4* featured arena allowed for 3* and 4* champions to be used, probably going to be the same for 5* arena where you can use 4* and 5* champions.

IanMoone89

Gladiator hulk isnt coming out especially since i expect shuri and killmonger to come out

YozaWhite

@Kabam Miike

I want to know If with this change we won’t be able to get Killmonger and Gladiator Hulk From his single featured crystal or if we just will get them from the new crystal?

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SpiritOfVengeance

So what if the question was asked? People want to know they won't be quiet because of some random comment.

Cwanta

So with this new crystal starting on the 13th does that mean Hulk Ragnarok will be available in the 15k crystal this week?

SpiritOfVengeance

Yeah if it somehow ends up being killmonger then it will be him instead.

BrutalMira

If the 18 champs chosen by the kabam team for a most interesting champ that can benefit the player can you please dont put to the line up , antman, luke cage, howard duck, kamala khan, iron patriot those champions are trash and will waste our 15k shards and hope you will always add starlord or blade in the line up

Huonuo

Where is the discussions if all our feedbacks are just being ignored? It seems this was just a FYI and we as player base will just have to take it or leave it. I understand that the rerun of the feature crystal will not be needed anymore once the 5*s features catch up with the current base pool. But removing 5* feature crystal when the new champ is released is ridiculous. So instead of allowing us to plan ahead and save up for a preferred champ when they are released to the contest, the only way to get new 5* is to buy the way overpriced GMC, FFS, it's $10 a crystal for a not even a 1% chance of getting 5* feature. As player base, we should collectively petition to Apple to expose this extremely exploitive plot. Nothing wrong of making profit from their game, but this?? Such a shame.!!

CFree

BitterSteel wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Hubris_hater wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

You don’t know that kabam won’t change it. You are saying something with absolute certainty that you couldn’t possibly know. You’re either assuming or lying. Again, I’ll mention the arena update that kabam didn’t do because of a week of complaints on forum.

Your correct mate, I dont know, its just my opinion. But I am pretty certain about this one, and you are as well really arent you?

Plus every post you post yourself (the same as we all do) you state it as if it is fact, when its just your opinion, You keep saying this is a bad change, that we all dont like it or want it, that it will have a bad affect on the game for us etc. These are your opinions, not facts

Point to where I said that we all hate it. Or that it will affect the game negatively.

You said, just 2 posts above:

Well it's a fact that more people hate the idea than like or love it

You even said it was a fact, when it clearly isnt, it is your opinion only

Since when are these two statements the same?

1) we all hate it
2) more people hate it than love it

Out of Everyone I know in the game, upwards of 1000 people (I’m in a line chat with my alliance’s family of alliances) the vast majority dislike it. Using that sample of variously rated players. Some with 4-40s some with rank 5 5*. The largely vast majority hate it. Meaning that to me, it is a fact that more hate it than love it.

Stating as a FACT that more people dislike it than like it is just wrong mate. It is your point of view, not mine or others at all. Plus I have already explained that we all look for people who share our opinions, it is a common thing to do. It doesnt make it a fact in any way, it just means you say it is! Doesn't make the opinion the right one

Out of the 500+ people I know in game I would say the split is:

30% hate it
20% like it
50% wait to see what happens

Does that make my opinion now a fact?

It is my point of view, and from a statistical standpoint it is 99% of others as well. We did a poll in our chat and 970 of the 1100 people in the chat voted that they disliked it. Companies use data like that to get “facts” about their general market every day.

The odds that the data from that poll is accurate is very high. As I said before, a huge range of progress of each account. So it is very like the population.

Possibly the stupidest thing I’ve read today.

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Huonuo

Whole heartily agree. There needs to be more than one option (GMC after 2/13) for getting feature 5*s when they release!

Ace_03 wrote: »

If new champs (as 5*) will only be available in GMC's, it's only fair we are also given the option to grind for them. I don't mind putting 20 mil for a 5* IF I so deem it worthy.

However, 20 mil for a 4* in arena is horrible. Now, I know, I know, I CHOOSE to do this, like many others, but I would rather do the same amount of points for a 5*. Before, I could save my 5* shards and have a slim chance for a nice new champ. Now with this I have to wait 3 months for a new one?

5* arena, revamped 3 day quest rewards, revamped milestone rewards in arena and GM crsytal shards. It seems the more the game advances, the more the majority stay behind. We only ask for a fair chance.

5* arenas is part of the balance, if I'm not willing to pay for crystals, then you should be able to have the option to pay with time.

PS: I hope you understand that a 5* arena needs to include 4*. If it's only 5* and 6* then only those who refresh will get to score in it, which would defeat the purpose of having the arena in the first place.

BrutalMira

Its better that now the 6* is released kabam will make the 5* crystal to 5thousand shards only if the 3* and 4* crystal are 2thousand shards what if kabam make the 5* crystal to 5 thousands shards so that the 10k shards now will be the 6* what do you think guys?

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Sith_Lord

As I have entirely caught up from the beginning of this thread, until this very point; I have a lot of questions & assumptions pertaining to this displeasing idea.

What was the real reason this idea came into play? Was it because of Apple's new mandate that all loot box percentages have to be revealed? Is it because that on the servers end, the percentage rates can be manipulated? Of course you guys are going to deny everything asked, but we know all about the shady practices of major companies - in general - when it comes to making more money.

The featured system in play right now has a general 25% drop rate for said featured champ. At least, that's what was told to us from Kabam's end. New system would have less than that, & all drops would be created equal. Ummmm, sorry, but no one wants this! We didn't ask for it.

Now, we are being forced, yes, "FORCED", to spend on the featured GM crystals, in order to try & get lucky on a featured champ. Are those drop rates for those crystals going to be released? Those crystals suck! And like almost everyone else has stated in this thread, or those who've spent on said crystals, the drop rates are horrendous. I should know, as I have opened many of them too.

The 300 unit GM featured crystals should at least have a guarantee for the featured 5* champ. For example, the way Kabam did it in their Chinese MCOC version, before it flopped... For every 20 crystals you open, you are guaranteed to get the main 5* featured champ. This would actually entice players to spend more too, in order on duping them for a high sig. I mean, it's really not that bad of an idea. We need some kind of balance with this new change. It's either that, or increase & reveal the drop rates for FGMC's.

butters

Since Gladiator Hulk is the final Featured on the old system, will he have a rerun on his crystal on Sunday or not?

DNA3000

Sith_Lord wrote: »

What was the real reason this idea came into play? Was it because of Apple's new mandate that all loot box percentages have to be revealed? Is it because that on the servers end, the percentage rates can be manipulated?

Nope. A large part of the general disapproval of the change is predicated on the notion that we all actually know what the drop odds were for the current featured crystal. We have enough data to know that a) the drop odds are pretty close to the general player guestimates and b) they aren't manipulated in any significant fashion that can be detected.

They could hypothetically be manipulating the odds in a manner too small to detect, but given the large amount of data we have on featured 5* drops any manipulation too small to detect would also be too small to affect anyone in any material fashion. Accusing Kabam of doing that is ludicrous.

Also, this notion that "oh, since it happens on the servers it can be manipulated" is dumb. Any game company that isn't completely [removed by moderator] is going to implement loot boxes server-side explicitly so they *cannot* be manipulated. Implementing them client-side exposes a game to the kind of cheating that destroys a game very fast.

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DNA3000

BuzzLightyear wrote: »

DNA3000 wrote: »

Sith_Lord wrote: »

What was the real reason this idea came into play? Was it because of Apple's new mandate that all loot box percentages have to be revealed? Is it because that on the servers end, the percentage rates can be manipulated?

Nope. A large part of the general disapproval of the change is predicated on the notion that we all actually know what the drop odds were for the current featured crystal. We have enough data to know that a) the drop odds are pretty close to the general player guestimates and b) they aren't manipulated in any significant fashion that can be detected.

They could hypothetically be manipulating the odds in a manner too small to detect, but given the large amount of data we have on featured 5* drops any manipulation too small to detect would also be too small to affect anyone in any material fashion. Accusing Kabam of doing that is ludicrous.

Also, this notion that "oh, since it happens on the servers it can be manipulated" is dumb. Any game company that isn't completely [removed by moderator] is going to implement loot boxes server-side explicitly so they *cannot* be manipulated. Implementing them client-side exposes a game to the kind of cheating that destroys a game very fast.

I don't think Sith was coming flat out to say that they are manipulating drop rates. I feel he was kind of using something from somewhere as an example. There are definitely game companies out there that do 100% manipulate their drop rates. Can be the cause here, or not, but I'm definitely not accusing Kabam for doing such...

I think he was implying it, but that is neither here nor there because I didn't claim he was either. He posed a question, to which I provided a response. He asked if either a disclosure requirement or odds manipulation could be the reason for the crystal change, to which my response is that seems extremely unlikely, because any manipulation that could escape detection wouldn't affect the odds disclosure in any meaningful way and because the odds disclosure itself would be unlikely to have a major impact because we already have a decent estimation of the odds. Neither his question nor my response requires the assumption that Sith was making a specific accusation of any kind.

Also, as an aside, it is possible for the crystal rolls to occur on the game client and still be subject to manipulation by the game in ways that would likely escape detection by game client deconstructors. The problem is that it would also be vulnerable to manipulation by particularly adept modders. The concept of randomization in a decentralized game is something I've put significant thought into for about eight years now.