Apple Now Requires Game Developers to disclose odds on "Loot Boxes" [MERGED THREADS]

Vdh2008

Any comments on this?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/21/16805674/apple-loot-box-app-store-games-odds-probability-disclosure

Comments

Speeds80

Sounds like a glitch @BitterSteel, he’s not commenting that I can see, I’ve had some bugs in this chat format... figures, this is kabam

DNA3000

BitterSteel wrote: »

Has anyone else been seeing “1 new post by hubris hater” on this thread but then go on it and nothing is there? I mean, I guess he might have blocked me but I didn’t know that you could do that on the forum, thought there was only ignore user. And I haven’t ignored him either. Anyone?

I have had a couple of random notifications like that as well. It is not the first time these forums hiccoughed like that for me.

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Vdh2008

BitterSteel wrote: »

Well injustice is the newest game I’ve seen to publish drop rates. When will kabam? @Kabam Miike
@Ad0ra_

Is there any update on this?

That even gives you a "per champ" rate for the featured. Impressive.

Strange_happens

Vdh2008 wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Well injustice is the newest game I’ve seen to publish drop rates. When will kabam? @Kabam Miike
@Ad0ra_

Is there any update on this?

That even gives you a "per champ" rate for the featured. Impressive.

Wow I don’t think they will. If they do I wonder how different the game will be or what the backlash will be when they show 1% for a 4star in the premeuum. - please correct me on how to spell ^

chev327fox

Vdh2008 wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

Well injustice is the newest game I’ve seen to publish drop rates. When will kabam? @Kabam Miike
@Ad0ra_

Is there any update on this?

That even gives you a "per champ" rate for the featured. Impressive.

Agreed that is really cool. I hope Kabam follows suit. The issue is they get away with telling you "guaranteed 2* hero"... that is all they really need to say I guess.

Rickybobby1 wrote: »

@Kabam Miike here’s what I don’t understand. WE THE PEOPLE. Who provide you with a job by giving you our money for your crystals are asking for the drop rates. We know they aren’t good to begin with, but knowing I have a .07% chance instead of a 1% chance might mean something to me. So even if you are adhearing to whatever rules Apple has pushed out (I don’t believe you are) why not just tell us. If we all stopped spending you would be in the unemployment line.

I would suggest if you feel strongly about it contact Apple and explain how you feel about it (if enough of the people who are really adamant about wanting to know do this they might pressure Kabam to do it).

Strange_happens

I don’t care if they do or not but If they do I just wonder if the game will change and what changes Would happen 🤷🏻‍♂️

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GroundedWisdom

BitterSteel wrote: »

Well injustice is the newest game I’ve seen to publish drop rates. When will kabam? @Kabam Miike
@Ad0ra_

Is there any update on this?

Those seem pretty consistent with what we know of the PHC, if we were to substitute the Rewards.

Katy_Candy

It will be after Blade featured if at all.

Kabam Miike

BitterSteel wrote: »

“We are still working with Apple on this. We are not trying to get around it, but making this stuff visible in Game takes a lot more time than you might think. There's visual design time required, Engineering time, and lots of other stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

We'll let you all know when we have more information to share.“

Hmm so my takeaway from this is that eventually the drop rates will be posted in the game, the implication is that they are working on making the drop rates visible as opposed to that they are trying to discuss with Apple ways to not have to post them.

@Kabam Miike could you confirm that this is the case? Are we eventually going to see the drop rates? Is that what the team are currently working on? (Obviously alongside other projects)

This is correct. We're not looking for a workaround, nor did we ever try to look for a "way around this". We've been working on how we are going to make them visible in game. There is a lot of time and work involved in making this happen, including visual design, production time, engineering time, among other requirements.

Thatweirdguy

Thanks @Kabam Miike glad you shared this. Too bad your bosses did not allow you to update us with this definitive answer sooner.

Romario26

Kabam Miike wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

“We are still working with Apple on this. We are not trying to get around it, but making this stuff visible in Game takes a lot more time than you might think. There's visual design time required, Engineering time, and lots of other stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

We'll let you all know when we have more information to share.“

Hmm so my takeaway from this is that eventually the drop rates will be posted in the game, the implication is that they are working on making the drop rates visible as opposed to that they are trying to discuss with Apple ways to not have to post them.

@Kabam Miike could you confirm that this is the case? Are we eventually going to see the drop rates? Is that what the team are currently working on? (Obviously alongside other projects)

This is correct. We're not looking for a workaround, nor did we ever try to look for a "way around this". We've been working on how we are going to make them visible in game. There is a lot of time and work involved in making this happen, including visual design, production time, engineering time, among other requirements.

Then could you post the rates in forums? Don’t really need visual designs, production time, engineering time or among other requirements

C0atHang3r

Romario26 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

“We are still working with Apple on this. We are not trying to get around it, but making this stuff visible in Game takes a lot more time than you might think. There's visual design time required, Engineering time, and lots of other stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

We'll let you all know when we have more information to share.“

Hmm so my takeaway from this is that eventually the drop rates will be posted in the game, the implication is that they are working on making the drop rates visible as opposed to that they are trying to discuss with Apple ways to not have to post them.

@Kabam Miike could you confirm that this is the case? Are we eventually going to see the drop rates? Is that what the team are currently working on? (Obviously alongside other projects)

This is correct. We're not looking for a workaround, nor did we ever try to look for a "way around this". We've been working on how we are going to make them visible in game. There is a lot of time and work involved in making this happen, including visual design, production time, engineering time, among other requirements.

Then could you post the rates in forums? Don’t really need visual designs, production time, engineering time or among other requirements

They have to do it anyway as it is required by Apple. They will be available soon enough it seems.

DNA3000

Kabam Miike wrote: »

BitterSteel wrote: »

“We are still working with Apple on this. We are not trying to get around it, but making this stuff visible in Game takes a lot more time than you might think. There's visual design time required, Engineering time, and lots of other stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

We'll let you all know when we have more information to share.“

Hmm so my takeaway from this is that eventually the drop rates will be posted in the game, the implication is that they are working on making the drop rates visible as opposed to that they are trying to discuss with Apple ways to not have to post them.

@Kabam Miike could you confirm that this is the case? Are we eventually going to see the drop rates? Is that what the team are currently working on? (Obviously alongside other projects)

This is correct. We're not looking for a workaround, nor did we ever try to look for a "way around this". We've been working on how we are going to make them visible in game. There is a lot of time and work involved in making this happen, including visual design, production time, engineering time, among other requirements.

I don't understand why, no matter how long it takes to implement, Kabam couldn't authorize you to confirm that MCOC was working to release the drop rates, because if the decision to do so has already been made and there's no benefit at all to keeping that some kind of surprise, there's no harm in giving the community a heads-up.

"We don't have any information to share" seems to be unnecessarily evasive if you're actually working to release what many players seem to want you to release.

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Kabam Vydious

Just a reminder that attacking one another and spreading wild 'conspiracies' are not allowed in the forums and any posts regarding such will be removed. It is okay to constructively discuss matters with one another, but even then those conversations had started to turn to accusations with "you said" and "you stated" so to further call out someone on being wrong in another's opinion.

This situation is one we are taking very seriously, we've stated in the past that we will update everyone once we can on the status of this. At this moment, we don't have that information to update with. When we do: we will say something. Throwing accusations or starting "he said/she said" threads won't get us anywhere faster. Please keep in mind that you're following forum rules or warnings will be followed with the deletion of your posts.

HigherPowered

These rates are known to Kabam, and based on results from large samples of crystals we sort of know what they are already, so I don’t really understand why Kabam haven’t published them on forums to kill the discussion until they can include them in game to avoid all this hand wringing...

Thatweirdguy

HigherPowered wrote: »

These rates are known to Kabam, and based on results from large samples of crystals we sort of know what they are already, so I don’t really understand why Kabam haven’t published them on forums to kill the discussion until they can include them in game to avoid all this hand wringing...

This is a good question. The only the answer I can come up with is that they absolutely loath the idea of having to reveal these so they won't until they have to.

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Thatweirdguy

ArmandStar wrote: »

Vydious, you have to admit, the conspiracies and etc are because of the lack of answers.

Miike said there's a lot of work involved, visual designs, production and etc.

and that is fine, we understand.

however, what is NOT fine is the fact that you guys took over a month (or who knows how long) to give this very simple and acceptable response.

someone said maybe you guys (forum mods) were forbidden from speaking, but couldn't you say so? "hey guys, our bosses don't want us to give any statement yet".

whether the solution is ready or not, the customers have requested to know about the progress and for a whole month the only response was silence. you can't blame players for going paranoic in this case.

The forum mods do not get to speak their minds. They are told what they are and are not allowed to say. They probably weren't even allowed to tell us that there was no statement. They are just voicing what their superiors permit them to probably via some script or bullet points they are given to put on here.

Kabam Miike

ArmandStar wrote: »

Vydious, you have to admit, the conspiracies and etc are because of the lack of answers.

Miike said there's a lot of work involved, visual designs, production and etc.

and that is fine, we understand.

however, what is NOT fine is the fact that you guys took over a month (or who knows how long) to give this very simple and acceptable response.

someone said maybe you guys (forum mods) were forbidden from speaking, but couldn't you say so? "hey guys, our bosses don't want us to give any statement yet".

whether the solution is ready or not, the customers have requested to know about the progress and for a whole month the only response was silence. you can't blame players for going paranoic in this case.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're reaching a bit here. There was no need to say more than we did. There is no reason to believe that we were looking for ways around this, or working on changing Drop Rates. That's just needless paranoia, and we don't reply to conspiracy theories.

We are not going to update this thread until there is something to update you with. Repeatedly posting "we don't have anything new to share yet" is not a good use of anybody's time, and giving progress updates is not always possible, because there are lots of moving parts.

Now, let's get this thread back on track, or we're gonna close it down.

Jason7680

I can guarantee that the 5* basic is rigged. Out of all the heros in that crystal. I've pulled 3 storms, and 3 cyclops and old Champs. What is the odds on that? Too fishy to me. I've spent a lot of money on this game and get **** champs, I'm done spending.

GapToothWitch

Kabam Miike wrote: »

ArmandStar wrote: »

Vydious, you have to admit, the conspiracies and etc are because of the lack of answers.

Miike said there's a lot of work involved, visual designs, production and etc.

and that is fine, we understand.

however, what is NOT fine is the fact that you guys took over a month (or who knows how long) to give this very simple and acceptable response.

someone said maybe you guys (forum mods) were forbidden from speaking, but couldn't you say so? "hey guys, our bosses don't want us to give any statement yet".

whether the solution is ready or not, the customers have requested to know about the progress and for a whole month the only response was silence. you can't blame players for going paranoic in this case.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're reaching a bit here. There was no need to say more than we did. There is no reason to believe that we were looking for ways around this, or working on changing Drop Rates. That's just needless paranoia, and we don't reply to conspiracy theories.

We are not going to update this thread until there is something to update you with. Repeatedly posting "we don't have anything new to share yet" is not a good use of anybody's time, and giving progress updates is not always possible, because there are lots of moving parts.

Now, let's get this thread back on track, or we're gonna close it down.

the question at hand: if you are already planning on releasing the rates why not come out and say it as soon as you fully understood that rates are now being required?

Mike, you of all people know how much of a mystery this has been for the community. Forget about the technicality of displaying this in game - a simple forum post would suffice and save much headache.

FPC3

Miike - The team could make a forum post with the drop rates to satiate the player-base. Surely all the other things you're talking about are in-game as you mentioned graphics and such, and those certainly DO require a bit of time. But a forum post would be quick and easy, no?

Vdh2008

FPC3 wrote: »

Miike - The team could make a forum post with the drop rates to satiate the player-base. Surely all the other things you're talking about are in-game as you mentioned graphics and such, and those certainly DO require a bit of time. But a forum post would be quick and easy, no?

I think the issue is that every crystal has different rates...

PHC rates
Daily Special crystal rates
GMC rates
FGMC rates
Arena Crystal rates
etc
etc
etc

GapToothWitch

Vdh2008 wrote: »

FPC3 wrote: »

Miike - The team could make a forum post with the drop rates to satiate the player-base. Surely all the other things you're talking about are in-game as you mentioned graphics and such, and those certainly DO require a bit of time. But a forum post would be quick and easy, no?

I think the issue is that every crystal has different rates...

PHC rates
Daily Special crystal rates
GMC rates
FGMC rates
Arena Crystal rates
etc
etc
etc

at least these:
PHC rates
Daily Special crystal rates
GMC rates
FGMC rates
Arena Crystal rates

at this point, anything really. Since in reality they could just be telling apple "we are working on it" just like they are telling us.

For all we know there is a monkey working one hour per day trying to code this..

I understand the "There is a lot of time and work involved in making this happen" but there is no excuse why they can't publish the drop rates in a forum post - they already know the rates! No visual design, production time, or engineering time involved.

DNA3000

Kabam Miike wrote: »

We are not going to update this thread until there is something to update you with. Repeatedly posting "we don't have anything new to share yet" is not a good use of anybody's time, and giving progress updates is not always possible, because there are lots of moving parts.

I agree: repeatedly posting "nothing new yet" is generally a waste of time and I understand the limitations of detailed progress reports. But as I said above, it seems clear from a post in a different thread that the decision has been made to release drop rates and the dev team is working on implementing a way to do that in-game. Wouldn't it be a good use of community coordination time to simply state that officially, to preempt discussions that presume this isn't happening?

You might think this was implied from your "working with Apple" statements, but the forum discussions in this and many other threads clearly demonstrate it was not. A clear statement we can point to which addresses this clearly and directly would certainly be both possible (because you already did it in a harder to reference thread) and helpful.

Corso

As someone who has gotten kabamed multiple times by dropping a $100 On an "increased chance" for a specific character and did not received it... I would love to know the drop rates!!! Probably would not have spent that $100. Lol. So they will either raise the drop rates, or make less money... kabam is just crooked. This will definitely benefit us!!

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