Hood Stagger/Siphon is wrong TWICE!

Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
I’m one of the first few to point this garbage out but Hood’s Stagger does not work as worded. That or Mystic Dispersion is SERIOSULY broken. Now everyone should be familiar with how both Hood-Siphon and MD are worded but here’s a reminder:

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However, when a new Stagger “force expires” an old Stagger to replace it with a Stagger it does not count as “expired”.

Yet I’ve toyed around with Agent Venom using both Hawkeye L1 Bleed and Ressonate. Both of these debuffs are capped at 1 instance at a time. Now after toying with both debuffs I’ve found that after getting it to stick “refreshing” the debuff with another acts as a “forced expire” removing the original and replacing it with a new one that can ve remoced by tenacity. The same thing can be seen with buffs when using Hulk against Mystic Dispersion. After possessing a fury, obtaining a new one acts as the original expiring and a new one taking its place triggering Mystoc Dispersion


A special Moderator did try to clearify this

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This moderator tries to claim that the “Siphon” will only take place when the Stagger-Timer naturally “times out” and not by refreshing or preventing a buff


With great effort I took it upon myself to RECORD a fight with a Venom on the leaderboard. I then scrubbed the video to find the exact frame of “Nullify” and screenshotted the frame

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Please notice how during the act of being removed early in this instance by preventing a buff it still triggers the regen.


Now obviously the part about regen only applying when Stagger NATURALLY times out cannot be true as I’ve presented physical evidence against that claim. It also cannot work as worded due to anyone using him knowing that’s not true.

Now to reconcile this we have 3 options

1. Nerf MD to operate like Siphon
2. Nerf Hood to work as “Claimed” and reword the text.
3. Buff Hood’s Siphon to work as MD

Personally I’m for option #3

Comments

  • SirnoobSirnoob Posts: 952 ★★★
    In before lock
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    Who flagged this?!

    I’m not just restating other people’s conplaints I’m actually DOING THE WORK, digging up actual statements on this issue and doing tests that anyone can replicate to add actual validation to a claim that’s been said numerous times with no real backup
  • SHADOW_BANDIT1SHADOW_BANDIT1 Posts: 26
    I’ve noticed inconsistency with it as well and wasn’t sure what to think of it. At time when I replace the stagger there is no regen and others there is.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    I’ve noticed inconsistency with it as well and wasn’t sure what to think of it. At time when I replace the stagger there is no regen and others there is.

    It’s not just inconsistency it’s just plain incorrect.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    MODS! Some weigh in would be nice here… or you all scared to touch this?
  • taojay1taojay1 Posts: 1,062 ★★★
    So there are two issues here? One is that Miike claims that Hood won't life steal when the stagger consumes a buff, but in your duel you actually do life steal. The second is that when you place a new stagger, the old one is not expired, but rather refreshed. In this case, I think it was intended, they made Hood's stagger different from other debuffs to prevent his life steal from being too powerful. The first issue is kinda weird, it would all make sense except Miike's comment makes everything confusing.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    taojay1 wrote: »
    So there are two issues here? One is that Miike claims that Hood won't life steal when the stagger consumes a buff, but in your duel you actually do life steal. The second is that when you place a new stagger, the old one is not expired, but rather refreshed. In this case, I think it was intended, they made Hood's stagger different from other debuffs to prevent his life steal from being too powerful. The first issue is kinda weird, it would all make sense except Miike's comment makes everything confusing.

    Except when you consider that the wolverines, Guillotine and even OML all have similar regen it’s not that far off. Even if they nerfed the amount but made it work like MD it’d be perfect!
  • @Mr_Otter appreciate this post. I hope we get an equally thoughtful response. I commented in a similar thread recently and it got closed with a rushed response. Hopefully this post is treated with more respect.
  • Btw I totally agree. Either siphon works as MD (and maybe the amount of hp is decreased) or the amount of hp that siphon recovers needs to be increased. Bc as it stands now, the ability is useless and just a waste of code.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    Btw I totally agree. Either siphon works as MD (and maybe the amount of hp is decreased) or the amount of hp that siphon recovers needs to be increased. Bc as it stands now, the ability is useless and just a waste of code.

    Honestly having it work like MD with less recovery per trigger would be just fine. Niether nerf nor buff. Despite my demeanor I’m generally against nerfs.

    Heck they could work it so whenever Stagger is removed by refreshing or expiring WITHOUT nullifying a buff he gets regen. That way it’s still a buff but also a balance so he’s not gaining health and power at the same time.
  • There is nothing wrong with anything of that.
    You already got the answer so there isn't too much too say. Both are different things that works differently.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    There is nothing wrong with anything of that.
    You already got the answer so there isn't too much too say. Both are different things that works differently.

    No there is a big issue! Neither the written word, official word, or performance line up
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    If Kabam can’t even get THIS right can we really expect the drop rates to be correct when those are released?!
  • TheHoodedDormammuTheHoodedDormammu Posts: 843 ★★
    Hood is fine how he is. Would prefer it if his heavy attack was changed so that it did not have an INSANE amount of ending lag. Try it out if you dont believe me
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    Hood is fine how he is. Would prefer it if his heavy attack was changed so that it did not have an INSANE amount of ending lag. Try it out if you dont believe me

    Oh trust me I fight plenty of Hoods. In fact I often rely on baiting heavy attacks like most people bait specials so I know it’s insane but my point remains that this sloppiness is atrocious considering even after official re-wording it’s wrong in the exact opposite way that would actually NERF him if it performed as @Kabam Miike THINKS he works!
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    @Jordan128


    Ask and someone gives
  • IceBobbyIceBobby Posts: 71
    By "natural expiration" they mean that it either fully ran out OR was used to stagger a buff.
    Your confusion stems from the fact that REFRESHING a buff and REPLACING a buff are different things.
    In the case with haweye's bleed and other things, check with deep wounds and you'll see that he is completely replacing the original bleed with a new bleed, in The Hood's case it is the original debut being refreshed.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 3,594 ★★★★★
    Couldn’t accept the answer the first time?
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/13767/mystic-dispersion-exposed-under-the-hood#latest
    We've talked about this many times before.

    Unfortunately, just because two things are worded similarly doesn't mean they mean the same thing. Yes, that sounds bizarre, but when we have stated over and over that Mystic Dispersion is working as intended, and that Hood's Stagger is working as intended, it means that they are working as intended.

    However, i will ask the team to look into changing the description of Mystic Dispersion to be more clear in the future.

    Closing this thread down.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    @IceBobby “natural” is NOT ONCE used in his ability description!

    @CoatHang3r
    1. Worded EXACTLY the same
    2. I have LITERALLY PROVEN that @Kabam Miike is incompetent in this case as he invented a new description that is STILL wrong
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    ALSO turns out he should also be able to chain stun cause YANNO his L1 Shock expires and causes a stun when it expires and it doesn’t stack either
  • will-o-wispwill-o-wisp Posts: 9,099 Guardian
    edited March 2018
    Mr_Otter wrote: »
    ALSO turns out he should also be able to chain stun cause YANNO his L1 Shock expires and causes a stun when it expires and it doesn’t stack either

    He SHOULD NOT be able to do that. His 1st special refreshes the shock, that's it.
    Again, it works differently from mystic dispersion. The team already commented on this a lot of times in the past, no point in bringing this up again
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    Mr_Otter wrote: »
    ALSO turns out he should also be able to chain stun cause YANNO his L1 Shock expires and causes a stun when it expires and it doesn’t stack either

    He SHOULD NOT be able to do that. His 1st special refreshes the shock, that's it.
    Again, it works differently from mystic dispersion. The team already commented on this a lot of times in the past, no point in bringing this up again

    Tell that to AGENT VENOM (and King Groot in a way) cause let me tell ya, they don’t see it as “the same debuff” they see it as “old one gone, new one here”
  • What's that even supposed to mean?
    So many champions that have capped abilities, and you are complaining about a single one because you think he is supposed to work differently than what he truly works.
  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    What's that even supposed to mean?
    So many champions that have capped abilities, and you are complaining about a single one because you think he is supposed to work differently than what he truly works.

    Yeah and they deal with tenacity in the same way! The issue is you cannot have it both ways:

    Either it’s the same one and “refreshing it” shouldn’t be effected by tenacity (ACROSS ALL CHAMPS) or the original is expiring and a new one is being placed (like MD)

  • Mr_OtterMr_Otter Posts: 1,614 ★★★
    @will-o-wisp

    Doesn’t it bother you that it counts as both and gets NEITHER benefit? It’s a shroddenger Level paradox as it is both but is also the other
  • BeginthEndBeginthEnd Posts: 327
    You see, The Hood is not “actually” from the hood.. I can see how this could be confusing.. However, once The Hood found Dormammu hanging with the Kabam crowd, he sold his immortal soul at a staggering price. Dormammu allows the Hood a chance to keep on trucking with a lil synergy, which is prolly why he dosnt mind this loss.

    It could also be because his face looks like it’s stuck in the fourth dimension.
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