Infinity Chaos Event Energy Requirements [Merged Threads]

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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    DrZola wrote: »
    We were just talking about substantially larger, ergo 200 Energy. That Energy added can be justified by the Rewards given for Rifts.

    Might want to add the word “potential” before Rewards. If it’s 90 units and a featured 5* crystal, then, why, yes it’s worth it. If it’s a 1* chest then not hardly.

    Dr. Zola

    Even the lowest Reward is worth 90 Units, in terms of the value in-game. As for personally worth it, that's a matter of perspective.

    Wrong. I got a mystic t4cc with is basically garbage to me. I can't even sell it.

    I literally just commented that there's a difference between personal value and the actual value in-game.

    I don't care about your perceived "in game value". T4cc are worthless to endgame players and a complete waste of units and energy to obtain.

    It's not perceived. Whether you can use it or not, it still has a value.

    Wrong. Something that I can't sell that expires from my overflow is the definition of worthless.

    To you. Hence my comment on personal value. If you're dripping in diamonds and have no need for them, they still have a market value.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    MoiraD wrote: »
    DrZola wrote: »
    We were just talking about substantially larger, ergo 200 Energy. That Energy added can be justified by the Rewards given for Rifts.

    Might want to add the word “potential” before Rewards. If it’s 90 units and a featured 5* crystal, then, why, yes it’s worth it. If it’s a 1* chest then not hardly.

    Dr. Zola

    Even the lowest Reward is worth 90 Units, in terms of the value in-game. As for personally worth it, that's a matter of perspective.

    Wrong. I got a mystic t4cc with is basically garbage to me. I can't even sell it.

    I literally just commented that there's a difference between personal value and the actual value in-game.

    I don't care about your perceived "in game value". T4cc are worthless to endgame players and a complete waste of units and energy to obtain.

    It's not perceived. Whether you can use it or not, it still has a value.

    Wrong. Something that I can't sell that expires from my overflow is the definition of worthless.

    To you. Hence my comment on personal value. If you're dripping in diamonds and have no need for them, they still have a market value.

    No diamonds can be bought and sold so they have value, t4ccs cannot be sold so if said person has no use and they expire they have no value.

    Just because Action Comics #1 has a price tag of $4mil, if no one pays that then it’s worthless.

    They have a value in the game. Unless you expected the RNG to roll exactly what you personally needed, in which case I'm not sure you understand how RNG works. The diamond comment was an example to make a point, but apparently it was missed. There is a value to Resources. Whether you can use them at the time you acquire them or not. There is an internal economy to the game. We can argue endlessly, but the bottom line is, it costs Energy for Rewards. People can be as blasé about the Rewards as they want, but it's proportionate. Nothing comes without effort outside of the Login.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    Saying a Dev wants to make money is redundant, but not conspiracy. No. Obviously they want to make money.
    Implying they alter things to make money is conspiracy, and it's one that you keep trying to promote.

    Screw this, I'm done arguing with you. I'm gonna go conspire and scheme with some friends to get some McDonald's where the employees conspire to cook food and sell it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    That's not the theory you've been posting over and over. You're not arguing that McDonalds is making burgers to make money. You're arguing that McDonalds changed the recipe without telling the customers, and the food makes you more hungry, to make money.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    edited April 2018
    That's not the theory you've been posting over and over. You're not arguing that McDonalds is making burgers to make money. You're arguing that McDonalds changed the recipe without telling the customers, and the food makes you more hungry, to make money.

    Many fast foods joints over years cut corners and reduced their burger sizes without telling customers and keeping prices the same.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    Thanks for displaying my point.
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    You're a marvelous troll, ain'tcha?
  • BadroseBadrose Posts: 710 ★★★
    I am not a troll. A troll is someone who comments for the purpose of evoking a reaction. I participate in discussions with logic.

    You are King Troll! Or the Troll King....
  • Mmx1991Mmx1991 Posts: 674 ★★★★
    edited April 2018
    I am not a troll. A troll is someone who comments for the purpose of evoking a reaction. I participate in discussions with logic.

    You're actually better than a troll. Trolls incite reaction but you also leave us with slight brain damage.
  • FivesFives Posts: 118 ★★
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    Fives wrote: »
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.

    Skill has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about the level of challenge. We're talking about the Energy cost. Time and effort. There's only so much you can play with the skill level of EQ, because there are set Difficulties. The skill required is being able to complete the Difficulty. People can point out the increase in Energy required over the last year, but they fail to see the Rewards have changed since then as well. Rewards are a factor in determining the Energy spent. It's never been a set standard. The only reason people are taking issue this month is because there are Rift Shards, but I have no doubt that the Energy cost is set in part because of the Rewards. People expect the cost to be the same as the last time Rifts came up, but the Rewards have changed as well. What are we talking about here? An extra Path in 3.2, which there have been 7 before, and the fact that some Paths have more Energy than we can hold. Anyone who has run Act 4 and up should not be shocked by this. No one ever said one Path should be equal or less than our capacity, and no one said we were entitled to a Path to spam for Completion. These Quests are designed for a month. Ample time to do it. If people want to rush through, they will have to spend to do it. Same as always. If people are getting burned out because they're trying to do all 5, that's a choice they make. Skill has little to do with Energy, yes. We're not talking about skill. The word skill comes up to the point of the detriment of the game because people want harder, more challenging, less boredom, and the result is so many conflicting mechanics, modes, and functions, all to appease a certain number of Players, that the push leaves balance taking longer to catch up. Players who are never happy regardless because their expectations are insatiable. It takes time and effort. That requres a certain amount of patience, as opposed to piling through to get to the Rifts.
  • GwendolineGwendoline Posts: 945 ★★★
    Fives wrote: »
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.

    Skill has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about the level of challenge. We're talking about the Energy cost. Time and effort. There's only so much you can play with the skill level of EQ, because there are set Difficulties. The skill required is being able to complete the Difficulty. People can point out the increase in Energy required over the last year, but they fail to see the Rewards have changed since then as well. Rewards are a factor in determining the Energy spent. It's never been a set standard. The only reason people are taking issue this month is because there are Rift Shards, but I have no doubt that the Energy cost is set in part because of the Rewards. People expect the cost to be the same as the last time Rifts came up, but the Rewards have changed as well. What are we talking about here? An extra Path in 3.2, which there have been 7 before, and the fact that some Paths have more Energy than we can hold. Anyone who has run Act 4 and up should not be shocked by this. No one ever said one Path should be equal or less than our capacity, and no one said we were entitled to a Path to spam for Completion. These Quests are designed for a month. Ample time to do it. If people want to rush through, they will have to spend to do it. Same as always. If people are getting burned out because they're trying to do all 5, that's a choice they make. Skill has little to do with Energy, yes. We're not talking about skill. The word skill comes up to the point of the detriment of the game because people want harder, more challenging, less boredom, and the result is so many conflicting mechanics, modes, and functions, all to appease a certain number of Players, that the push leaves balance taking longer to catch up. Players who are never happy regardless because their expectations are insatiable. It takes time and effort. That requres a certain amount of patience, as opposed to piling through to get to the Rifts.

    Actually, that has been said, back on the old forum.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    Fives wrote: »
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.

    Skill has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about the level of challenge. We're talking about the Energy cost. Time and effort. There's only so much you can play with the skill level of EQ, because there are set Difficulties. The skill required is being able to complete the Difficulty. People can point out the increase in Energy required over the last year, but they fail to see the Rewards have changed since then as well. Rewards are a factor in determining the Energy spent. It's never been a set standard. The only reason people are taking issue this month is because there are Rift Shards, but I have no doubt that the Energy cost is set in part because of the Rewards. People expect the cost to be the same as the last time Rifts came up, but the Rewards have changed as well. What are we talking about here? An extra Path in 3.2, which there have been 7 before, and the fact that some Paths have more Energy than we can hold. Anyone who has run Act 4 and up should not be shocked by this. No one ever said one Path should be equal or less than our capacity, and no one said we were entitled to a Path to spam for Completion. These Quests are designed for a month. Ample time to do it. If people want to rush through, they will have to spend to do it. Same as always. If people are getting burned out because they're trying to do all 5, that's a choice they make. Skill has little to do with Energy, yes. We're not talking about skill. The word skill comes up to the point of the detriment of the game because people want harder, more challenging, less boredom, and the result is so many conflicting mechanics, modes, and functions, all to appease a certain number of Players, that the push leaves balance taking longer to catch up. Players who are never happy regardless because their expectations are insatiable. It takes time and effort. That requres a certain amount of patience, as opposed to piling through to get to the Rifts.

    Actually, that has been said, back on the old forum.
    Well, I admit my feelings on the constant demand for more challenge came out the side of that, but I don't remember ever reading that Energy per Path would never exceed our reserve. Perhaps in response to a specific EQ, but I've never read it. It's been a long time since then. Many things have changed.
  • GwendolineGwendoline Posts: 945 ★★★
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    Fives wrote: »
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.

    Skill has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about the level of challenge. We're talking about the Energy cost. Time and effort. There's only so much you can play with the skill level of EQ, because there are set Difficulties. The skill required is being able to complete the Difficulty. People can point out the increase in Energy required over the last year, but they fail to see the Rewards have changed since then as well. Rewards are a factor in determining the Energy spent. It's never been a set standard. The only reason people are taking issue this month is because there are Rift Shards, but I have no doubt that the Energy cost is set in part because of the Rewards. People expect the cost to be the same as the last time Rifts came up, but the Rewards have changed as well. What are we talking about here? An extra Path in 3.2, which there have been 7 before, and the fact that some Paths have more Energy than we can hold. Anyone who has run Act 4 and up should not be shocked by this. No one ever said one Path should be equal or less than our capacity, and no one said we were entitled to a Path to spam for Completion. These Quests are designed for a month. Ample time to do it. If people want to rush through, they will have to spend to do it. Same as always. If people are getting burned out because they're trying to do all 5, that's a choice they make. Skill has little to do with Energy, yes. We're not talking about skill. The word skill comes up to the point of the detriment of the game because people want harder, more challenging, less boredom, and the result is so many conflicting mechanics, modes, and functions, all to appease a certain number of Players, that the push leaves balance taking longer to catch up. Players who are never happy regardless because their expectations are insatiable. It takes time and effort. That requres a certain amount of patience, as opposed to piling through to get to the Rifts.

    Actually, that has been said, back on the old forum.
    Well, I admit my feelings on the constant demand for more challenge came out the side of that, but I don't remember ever reading that Energy per Path would never exceed our reserve. Perhaps in response to a specific EQ, but I've never read it. It's been a long time since then. Many things have changed.

    Obviously it was about EQ. Act 4 was out by then. I don't think there's anything wrong with story paths being long. But in EQ, with the limited time they are there and with aq and war it gets impossible without spending units on refills.

    And their wording wasn't "never". They are smart enough not to says never. It's always "at the moment we don't have any plans..." So yeah, they didn't break their word, but it is a pretty nasty move. More paths would have been better then this. (Preferably more paths in the earlier parts).
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    Fives wrote: »
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.

    Skill has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about the level of challenge. We're talking about the Energy cost. Time and effort. There's only so much you can play with the skill level of EQ, because there are set Difficulties. The skill required is being able to complete the Difficulty. People can point out the increase in Energy required over the last year, but they fail to see the Rewards have changed since then as well. Rewards are a factor in determining the Energy spent. It's never been a set standard. The only reason people are taking issue this month is because there are Rift Shards, but I have no doubt that the Energy cost is set in part because of the Rewards. People expect the cost to be the same as the last time Rifts came up, but the Rewards have changed as well. What are we talking about here? An extra Path in 3.2, which there have been 7 before, and the fact that some Paths have more Energy than we can hold. Anyone who has run Act 4 and up should not be shocked by this. No one ever said one Path should be equal or less than our capacity, and no one said we were entitled to a Path to spam for Completion. These Quests are designed for a month. Ample time to do it. If people want to rush through, they will have to spend to do it. Same as always. If people are getting burned out because they're trying to do all 5, that's a choice they make. Skill has little to do with Energy, yes. We're not talking about skill. The word skill comes up to the point of the detriment of the game because people want harder, more challenging, less boredom, and the result is so many conflicting mechanics, modes, and functions, all to appease a certain number of Players, that the push leaves balance taking longer to catch up. Players who are never happy regardless because their expectations are insatiable. It takes time and effort. That requres a certain amount of patience, as opposed to piling through to get to the Rifts.

    Actually, that has been said, back on the old forum.
    Well, I admit my feelings on the constant demand for more challenge came out the side of that, but I don't remember ever reading that Energy per Path would never exceed our reserve. Perhaps in response to a specific EQ, but I've never read it. It's been a long time since then. Many things have changed.

    Obviously it was about EQ. Act 4 was out by then. I don't think there's anything wrong with story paths being long. But in EQ, with the limited time they are there and with aq and war it gets impossible without spending units on refills.

    And their wording wasn't "never". They are smart enough not to says never. It's always "at the moment we don't have any plans..." So yeah, they didn't break their word, but it is a pretty nasty move. More paths would have been better then this. (Preferably more paths in the earlier parts).

    I don't think it's a great deal more TBH. 78 per Path? I just ask for Help and come back after a few Rounds in the Arena.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    Actually I do the same thing every month to try and conserve the Units I farm. I don't rush myself. There's no need outside of a Legends Tag. Everytime I'm on, I use my Energy and hit Help. The more I use that fills itself, the less I have to spend. Otherwise I rush through, spending Units in the first week, and then I have 3 weeks of Energy sitting there. The majority of my game time is Arena, War, and AQ. If I'm logging on for something else, I can move a Path. Then when it comes time to complete it, I spend less on Refills. I understand there's a press for when Rifts close, but the Crystals are still available for 25 more days in the event they're missed. Obviously the Rift is the preferred use, but the point is there's time.
  • GwendolineGwendoline Posts: 945 ★★★
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    Gwendoline wrote: »
    Fives wrote: »
    Where the game is headed? If the game is headed to a place where people have to put in effort for substantial Rewards, then I have no problems with that. If the expectation is to give more for doing the same, or less, you will find I'm not on board. Unless people expected the Rifts and the Rewards to come without effort, in which case there's not much reasoning.
    Energy has been scaled based on the Rewards.


    I’m fine with making content harder relative to rewards. In fact, Kabam has already done that; recent events have been incredibly difficult. You yourself were commenting about the difficulty Guillotine was giving you. That’s absolutely fine, and I absolutely agree. Giving more rewards for equal effort is asinine, and not a good business model.
    I absolutely disagree, however, with the notion that any increased amount of effort or skill will somehow make energy recharge times shorter, or allow me to move through paths faster. That’s the big issue here.
    If I have skill, I will be able to complete content that others have to spend on. The only limiting factors are either my skill, or how much I’m willing to spend to supplement my lack of skill; the major factor here is skill (or effort, as you put it).
    With this quest, however, Kabam has shifted the limiting factors to either how much time I have to maximize energy use, or how much I’m willing to spend on energy to supplement my lack of time; the major factor here is energy.
    When you shift the major factor from skill to energy, you take control and consequence away from the player. It no longer matters how much effort I put in; either I pay with time, or I pay with money. Those are the only two options. It doesn’t matter how hard I try, how much skill I have. I have no control whatsoever over how much energy I gain. All that matters is whether I pay.
    Most of us have jobs, school, social demands, etc, and those all take precedence over a game. I dare you to find an instance of Kabam claiming otherwise. I cannot pay entirely with time. I try. This game already takes up enough of that, with alliance wars and quests and arenas and everything in between. It would be entirely unreasonable for Kabam to expect its player base to dedicate SO MUCH TIME to its game, to the point the game takes precedence over real life. Again, I dare you to find an instance where Kabam claims otherwise. The only option left is money, which should NOT, in ANY case, be a requisite for simply completing content.

    TL;Fell Asleep:
    Sure, effort is important. We shouldn’t just be given rewards for little to no effort. But making energy more of a factor than skill effectively takes both skill AND effort out of the equation, and limits players to either paying with time, which most of us cannot afford to waste more of, or with money, which should never be a requisite.

    I’m all for making us put more effort in, relative to more rewards. But increasing energy cost has nothing to do with increasing effort, and everyone here is grounded enough in their own wisdom to recognize that.

    Skill has nothing to do with it. We're not talking about the level of challenge. We're talking about the Energy cost. Time and effort. There's only so much you can play with the skill level of EQ, because there are set Difficulties. The skill required is being able to complete the Difficulty. People can point out the increase in Energy required over the last year, but they fail to see the Rewards have changed since then as well. Rewards are a factor in determining the Energy spent. It's never been a set standard. The only reason people are taking issue this month is because there are Rift Shards, but I have no doubt that the Energy cost is set in part because of the Rewards. People expect the cost to be the same as the last time Rifts came up, but the Rewards have changed as well. What are we talking about here? An extra Path in 3.2, which there have been 7 before, and the fact that some Paths have more Energy than we can hold. Anyone who has run Act 4 and up should not be shocked by this. No one ever said one Path should be equal or less than our capacity, and no one said we were entitled to a Path to spam for Completion. These Quests are designed for a month. Ample time to do it. If people want to rush through, they will have to spend to do it. Same as always. If people are getting burned out because they're trying to do all 5, that's a choice they make. Skill has little to do with Energy, yes. We're not talking about skill. The word skill comes up to the point of the detriment of the game because people want harder, more challenging, less boredom, and the result is so many conflicting mechanics, modes, and functions, all to appease a certain number of Players, that the push leaves balance taking longer to catch up. Players who are never happy regardless because their expectations are insatiable. It takes time and effort. That requres a certain amount of patience, as opposed to piling through to get to the Rifts.

    Actually, that has been said, back on the old forum.
    Well, I admit my feelings on the constant demand for more challenge came out the side of that, but I don't remember ever reading that Energy per Path would never exceed our reserve. Perhaps in response to a specific EQ, but I've never read it. It's been a long time since then. Many things have changed.

    Obviously it was about EQ. Act 4 was out by then. I don't think there's anything wrong with story paths being long. But in EQ, with the limited time they are there and with aq and war it gets impossible without spending units on refills.

    And their wording wasn't "never". They are smart enough not to says never. It's always "at the moment we don't have any plans..." So yeah, they didn't break their word, but it is a pretty nasty move. More paths would have been better then this. (Preferably more paths in the earlier parts).

    I don't think it's a great deal more TBH. 78 per Path? I just ask for Help and come back after a few Rounds in the Arena.

    I'd like to reply to the "help" stuff, but then I'd go very far of topic. There is a lot wrong with the help system though and shouldn't be the solution.

    For me personally the longer paths aren't a big issue but I remember being in alliances where aq took all day. At the end of it I'd jump in the eq and then after a quick run I joined the next aq. Now that requires coming back later or doing some arena. Or of course a refill. That I'm no longer in that situation and have time to wait for my energy to refill doesn't mean others are too.
  • Maybe the increase in energy is to keep the time to qualify for the legends run the same as before as now a lot of people have r2 6*s and r5 5*s which would've made it much shorter
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    Actually I do the same thing every month to try and conserve the Units I farm. I don't rush myself. There's no need outside of a Legends Tag. Everytime I'm on, I use my Energy and hit Help. The more I use that fills itself, the less I have to spend. Otherwise I rush through, spending Units in the first week, and then I have 3 weeks of Energy sitting there. The majority of my game time is Arena, War, and AQ. If I'm logging on for something else, I can move a Path. Then when it comes time to complete it, I spend less on Refills. I understand there's a press for when Rifts close, but the Crystals are still available for 25 more days in the event they're missed. Obviously the Rift is the preferred use, but the point is there's time.

    It's just what I do. The real point is it takes time. If we want to complete it, there are a couple options. We can either do it at our own pace, or use Units to refill our Energy. What happens with these things is people push to do it as soon as it comes out and that maximizes the cost. Which is entirely up to them, but it's not designed to drain Units from people. That's something they elect to do. The EQ is a month long. This month they had Rifts. It was offset a week because of 17.2. This was because the Update made it visible, so they had to release it. That run is what has people scrambling. Otherwise they would still be doing it in their own time. It's not necessary to rush is my real point. There is time allotted for it.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,352 ★★★★★
    edited April 2018
    Actually I'm discussing the topic. The only people making it about personal feelings are the ones who jump in making random personal comments. Empirical evidence doesn't involve expectation and entitlement. The Rewards are greater than they were over the span that said data has been collected from a certain source infamous for also sharing data mined information. That's a fact conveniently left out when people are implying it's not fair.
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