LAUNCHING JULY 15: Peak Milestones and Alliance Quests Update Discussion Thread

13468913

Comments

  • richo82richo82 Member Posts: 50
    Siliyo wrote: »
    Please lower the cost of L3 and L4 potions since AW is the focus now... especially with a long wait until the next AQ season.

    So, while we didn't lower the Cost of Alliance Potions themselves, we are giving you more Glory, and you can use that to purchase Alliance Potions if you wish. I know this isn't exactly the same. Personally, I prefer to use my Glory on Rank Up Materials, but the choice is always yours.

    That's the one I wanted to quote.
  • This content has been removed.
  • DJRipsterDJRipster Member Posts: 169
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    So, say im short 50 glory to buy a potion from the Glory Store, Id have to wait for Alliance Quest to be over before I can do that now ?

  • DJRipsterDJRipster Member Posts: 169
    Ascoop24 wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    I guess I'm a little confused as why you would take this away. By taking milestones away(in regards to alliance quest) you take away glory you get throughout the week. I'm curious as to why and how you thought this would benefit players?

    We know that waiting for your rewards isn't the best, but you'll getting a lot more for the same work. Yes, you're gonna have to wait, but now the Milestone rewards that you receive will be able to be more targeted to different levels of Player progression.

    When can we as a community see the rewards that will be offered on other events via Peak Milestones ?

    Wouldn't this be a good opportunity to discuss how the rewards will be effected on other alliance events for community to give their feedback ?
  • ClaytonClayton Member Posts: 43
    Still wack rewards when y’all claim “the meta of the game have changed.”
  • demeddemed Member Posts: 81
    edited June 2018
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.
  • VoltolosVoltolos Member Posts: 1,120 ★★★
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    You can keep some glory. You don't have to use it all in one day
  • demeddemed Member Posts: 81
    Voltolos wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    You can keep some glory. You don't have to use it all in one day

    In an ideal world where I was given enough time to save glory, yes. Unfortunatelly, I am already running low on glory and I need to use glory daily to build my resources for next AW season. Equally there are about 3-4 wars between each AQ, some of them requiring more potions than usual (I can't plan for that). It doesn't change the fact that the new system is inflexible and does not help manage the glory easier unless costs for items are reduced or changed to a flat fee.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?
  • demeddemed Member Posts: 81
    Voltolos wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    You can keep some glory. You don't have to use it all in one day

    In an ideal world where we had been given plenty of time to plan for it, yes. Unfortunatelly i am running low on glory and need to build resources for next AW season. It doesn't change the fact that the new system is inflexible and does not help in managing glory as easily. We only get glory once every 8 days with 3-4 wars in between and some of them requiring more potions than usual. It would be great if there was a flat fee on multiple purchases of items on the same day or reduced costs overall, otherwise I don't anticipate seeing true benefits from these "increased rewards".
  • demeddemed Member Posts: 81
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?

    I don't recall anyone charging me higher price for buying an item more than once on the same day when it comes to real life budgeting.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    demed wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?

    I don't recall anyone charging me higher price for buying an item more than once on the same day when it comes to real life budgeting.

    I also don’t recall you getting paid everyday in real life either, not that real life is relevant.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    demed wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?

    I don't recall anyone charging me higher price for buying an item more than once on the same day when it comes to real life budgeting.

    I also don’t recall anyone getting paid everyday in real life. Not that real life is relevant.
  • demeddemed Member Posts: 81
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?

    I don't recall anyone charging me higher price for buying an item more than once on the same day when it comes to real life budgeting.

    I also don’t recall anyone getting paid everyday in real life. Not that real life is relevant.

    And had you actually read my suggestion. It would be great if there was a flat fee on multiple purchases of items on the same day or reduced costs overall, otherwise I don't anticipate seeing true benefits from these "increased rewards".
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    demed wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?

    I don't recall anyone charging me higher price for buying an item more than once on the same day when it comes to real life budgeting.

    I also don’t recall anyone getting paid everyday in real life. Not that real life is relevant.

    And had you actually read my suggestion. It would be great if there was a flat fee on multiple purchases of items on the same day or reduced costs overall, otherwise I don't anticipate seeing true benefits from these "increased rewards".

    There is really no difference between the two systems other than the first week might be a little tight except for the fact you get paid more. The cost always increased with multiple purchases in the same week, that hasn’t changed. Except now you have even more glory and they increased the maximum number you can purchase per week on some items. Under the current system you still have to deal with increased costs of AW pots. The only thing that is changing is you get paid more for waiting. It’s almost like being paid interest for being patient. I believe your issue is not with getting rewards at the end of the week, but just the increased costs of purchasing multiple items per week. After the first week there should really be no difference in purchasing items day to day.
  • demeddemed Member Posts: 81
    edited June 2018
    @V1PER1987 I feel like you just like commenting but don't read actually other people's posts. Scroll up to see my full posts with my "issue" and my "suggestion".
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    demed wrote: »
    @V1PER1987 I feel like you just like commenting but don't read actually other people's posts.

    I feel like you’re complaining just to complain so I just won’t bother.
  • Gwm83Gwm83 Member Posts: 72
    edited July 2018
    I dont purchase things with glory all at once.. the price goes up, I purchase the 1 then wait for the reset...now with this new system you have to plan and possibly get things at the higher cost or risk your glory reaching its cap. Then what happens? The increase is great....but the wait will potentially cause problems. Guess we will have to wait and see
  • StolenNameGuyStolenNameGuy Member Posts: 36
    Are the rewards for ranking up and down theoretically covered by the increased rate of accumulating glory? We would get 20k+ t4b shards when we ranked up and a full t4b when we ranked down the following week. Will this new system provide an advantage or a disadvantage to us?
  • JuiceJuice Member Posts: 8
    So I notice there are no glory crystals in the new rewards....
  • GrubGrub Member Posts: 258 ★★★
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Wolf

    Is there any sort of reasoning that you devalued the 2-5 spot rewards? While keeping the 1 spot intact.
  • Ron_HRon_H Member Posts: 64
    Most of us buy a single L4 health potion daily to cut cost of the glory. Taking those milestone rewards away it delays that process of buying them daily. Running AQ fuels the War attacking is how I look at it. It would take several weeks in order to buy the daily L4 potion to use up the glory that some of us intend to use it on. This will cause more people to have to use units for the short term health potion buying. Am I wrong with this? I would rather have a little bit of rewards throughout the AQ week than wait till the end then have to spend more glory on health potions at one time because I may need them at the time. Was this the reason for the Peak Milestones? My thoughts are instantly going negative because of the mistrust and feedback that we get already. I see nothing positive in this

    exactly this.. so fed up with all these sneaky ways to get us to spend units.
  • Feeney234Feeney234 Member Posts: 1,202 ★★★★
    LOL because iOS is the operating system with the issues? How about you fix android
  • hungryhungrybbqhungryhungrybbq Member Posts: 2,219 ★★★★★
    More glory and reduced glory store prices. What am I missing? Sounds like a good change. Instead of a trickle of glory throughout the week, we'll get a nice stack at the end of the week. We can still spend our glory a little bit per day if we want. This shouldn't effect how/when we spend it.
  • Ron_HRon_H Member Posts: 64
    The main issue i have is that i dont see how the milestones have something to do with being able to get rid of the bracket system.

    Im am indeed glad to see the bracket system is being removed..but why wouldnt we still be able to claim milestones at the point they are reached?

    As many have pointed out they spend glory on an item..wait till daily reset and then purchase again. If all alliances in the game are able to claim milestones when reached in this current bracket system..then why isnt that possible in the peak system? The little extra glory you give us will be (to keep it in game terms) nullified by the raised cost of not being able to buy after the daily reset.

    Its the only content were we wont be able to claim milestones when reached.
    Why is this... cause AQ and AW is team work as an alliance. So that means when you are out of potions and glory you now HAVE to spend units when needed cause otherwise you let down your other members in alliance.

    It just seems you guys are trying to wrap it all up in a story that seems appealing at first sight..but will be biting us in the a$$ once implemented.

    Yeah i get it you can save up glory first week and still buy each day.. but the point is there really is no real reason to delay rewards.

    Havent you guys had enough backlash this past week? Why cant you guys come up with something for once that your players would actually appreciate. Changes like this almost makes me think you get a kick out of it to aggravating your player community.

    This change would be great if you just get rid of the delay of rewards. If that wasnt included you wouldnt have so many players complaining here on forum. Without the delay in milestone rewards this thread would probably be full of compliments that you guys doing a great job, but instead here we are again....

  • ThreedeadkingsThreedeadkings Member Posts: 97
    botonox03 wrote: »
    Will there be any changes to map 6 in terms of rewards for completion (will there be return of battle chips and gold as in quests such as map 5)?

    Also, will there be a cap on the amount of glory one can accrue over a number of alliance quests? If so, what will that be?

    We don't have any plans to adjust the rewards for completion of Map 6 right now, but this is something that I will talk to the team about for our next season, as we are working on that right now.

    There is a cap for Glory that has not changed since it was introduced, which is 15,000

    @Kabam Miike
    Are you sure that the current glory cap is at 15k? I have in numerous occasions received notification that my glory cap is breached at 10k and therefore my new glory is forfeited.

    By the way, there isn’t a mechanism for summoners to back track and clear excess glory before claiming the new when the in game message pings you that you have exceeded the cap. Any chance of rectifying that? Thanks

    @Kabam Miike
    I just want to circle back on this glory cap issue. p4tbaj4gnddp.jpeg

    Refer to the pic file I attached. I’m at 9900 Glory. And the minute I ‘claim’ the next glory milestone, the system prompts me to use my glory. And it appears I can’t claim the next milestone even when you have confirmed it’s at 15k. You sure that’s correct? Many thanks for looking into this matter
  • bharatgaurbharatgaur Member Posts: 6
    If we score 100M points does that mean Glory count which we will get is 23350 ?
  • Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Member Posts: 1,512 ★★★★★
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    demed wrote: »
    DroidDoes wrote: »
    Hey Summoners,

    We've just posted an Announcement on an exciting new feature coming to The Contest next week! Find out what you need to know about Peak Milestones in our post here, and then ask your questions!

    So to confirm, we won’t get any rewards until the event ends? So for AQ for example, we’re not getting any glory or map crystals day by day anymore?

    Also can you show some examples of non-AQ related events with peak milestones?

    This is correct. While you won't be collecting small rewards along the way anymore, you will get a much bigger payout at the end of the event.

    I will talk to the team about getting some Non-Alliance Quest examples, because we do have some of those coming too.

    This is actually so unhelpful and inflexible. The timer for most glory purchases resets daily and the current system with milestones ensured we got a steady source of glory. This was helpful especially when running low on glory and in desperate need for potions for AW. The new system will instead force us to use units or buy multiple of the same items at a higher cost because we are not earning glory daily and requires much more planning by acquiring glory only once every 8 days.

    I guess you don’t understand budgeting?

    I don't recall anyone charging me higher price for buying an item more than once on the same day when it comes to real life budgeting.

    I also don’t recall anyone getting paid everyday in real life. Not that real life is relevant.

    Most waiters and waitresses are paid daily.
  • WOKWOK Member Posts: 468 ★★
    I've caught up a little on the new rewards system and some of the concerns being raised regarding the impact these changes may have on ally "progression seperation" and lockdown of resources that we may need in a pinch.

    The line I usually take regarding any changes is basically this, if the changes do not violate any ethical business practices towards its players and do not egregiously contradict the previously followed progression standards set by kabam, Im good with it.

    I've never been very good at saving things I'm abe to spend immediately, which has at times caused me some grief in a pinch, so I personally welcome the end of event rewards in helping exercise some frugality and even level headed planning that may be necessary to avoid further grief.

    And more has always been a good thing in my book, regardless of whether or not someone else got more. Basically, I believe the top tier allies are getting more, because they have invested in the game that is equivelent to it. And If I wanted the rewards to not have such a gap, I would expect myself to invest proportionately. I will not and never would invest the kind of money and time as what I can only imagine a top tier player has invested to be where he/she is now, so in my eyes its fair.

    I don't like to scrutinise new announcements when it generally appears to be positive and fair and will end with this.
    Amidst all the negative feedback and accusations(some made by yours truly) lately, I'd like to take this time to sincerely offer thanks to the game team for the nice update, and appreciate the efforts being made for some improved communication with all of us. Thanks again, and I truly hope you stay vigilant in this path.
  • WOKWOK Member Posts: 468 ★★
    After reading this last page of comments, I'm a little shocked by the consensus of players stating that they are in a bind for glory store pots to use in AW/AQ on a daily basis.

    I can somewhat agree that the cost to purchase some items may seem a bit steep, but never considered the fact that possibly so many use what I would consider a **** load of pots in wars and AQ if they are needing to stockpile AND purchase on a daily basis.

    Personally, on avg. I would roughly calculate I go through one lvl4 pot, one lvl3 pot and maybe two or three lvl2 pots rounding out with about three to Five lvl1 pots(these are because I'm cheap) through an entire week of AQ(nothing higher than Map5) and AW simutaneously. That is a fairly accurate avg mind you, but I have had situations where I'm either playing horribly or end up facing a nemesis champ of mine with its node up cause an ally mate couldnt take down the link, or I just don't feel like waiting. Champion boosts I rarely to almost never use for the ally events unless I happen to have used one in a story quest Im running at the same time.

    I really was/am under the assumption that I am someone that goes through too many pots for ally events. TBH, something doesn't seem right with this new picture I'm seeing.

    There's got to be something Im misunderstanding, or there's some underlying reason that Im not getting.

Sign In or Register to comment.