Developers Thoughts: Improving Alliance Wars Discussion Thread

Hey Summoners!

We've just posted a brand new behind the scenes look at the future of Alliance Wars, including some new changes coming to Alliance Wars Season 5! Make sure you take a read of the post over on our Blog: https://playcontestofchampions.com/developer-thoughts-improving-alliance-wars/

The Rotating Global Buffs kick off on October 17th! Prepare yourselves!

Comments

Championcritic

OKAYGang wrote: »

The bleed immunity only encourages the use of Medusa, Mephisto, and MODOK on defense, it just makes them that much stronger since bleed was one of the few weaknesses they had.

Let's face it, people were already going to use the above champs whether or not bleed immune is introduced. They are just that good.

OKAYGang

Demonzfyre wrote: »

OKAYGang wrote: »

Väggar wrote: »

I can agree with the stagnant previous season and only using specific champs because of our RNG luck, but if you want to implement the system to where we can use other champs as viable options than please. BUFF EVERYONE. Even She Hulk and Ant-Man. HulkBuster. Don't create a B.S. "Unique Synergy" on them because than that means we need another champion in order to use that synergy. Just make every champion viable and not weak and an actual tool that can be used on any standard either defensively or offensively. Just look on YouTube at any video on Offensive Tier list with the Youtubers opinion on their spreadsheet about every character. It's pretty easy to see which ones need a buff. So get to it! 😂

Nope they'd rather just nerf the champs and masteries that everyone has wasted their time and resources on ranking up instead.

Directly or indirectly adding a Global Bleed Immune node to AW is nerfing every Bleed Champ (X-23, MorningStar, Blade, KillMonger, GwenPool, ArchAngel, Wolverine, NightCrawler, SaberTooth, Guilly, Gamora, Yondu, Ultrobn, WW2, WS, MoonKnight, BP, BPCW, Carnage, Venom etc.), not to mention it's also a direct nerf to the Deep Wounds Mastery. This like 12.0 all over again imo.

I demand rank down tickets and compensation for deep wounds or I might be done playing for a long time again considering these are the Champs and Masteries that Kabam themselves encouraged us all rank up after the nerfs to the Suicide Masteries and OG champs before and during 12.0.

I 100% agree they should just buff all the crappy champs if they want balance, but instead they'd rather nerf the good stuff. that we all spent respurces on already. Kabam taking the lazy way out again at their player's expense, typical.

Lastly this balances nothing. In fact it has quite the opposite effect becuase it just makes the pool of useful champions even smaller than it already was before.

You realize this is for only 1 war season and doesnt effect any other mode in the game right?

You realize war is only reason I and many others came out of retirement or haven't quit permanently in the first place because all of Kabam's past shenannigans right?

OKAYGang

Demonzfyre wrote: »

Jamiefyffe16 wrote: »

All this is just another nerf under the guise of diversity. They know we won’t change our attack teams so they just weakened them even more so we time out and die more. Every season they find a way to make war harder and for people to spend more without upping the rewards. I wonder how much longer people are willing to take their BS.

For the love of everything, THIS IS NOT A NERF!!!!! Stop calling it that. A nerf would a fundamental change to a champ. That is not what is happening here. This only effects AW and not other game mode. Plus these 2 nodes are ONLY FOR SEASON 5 and not beyond. Not a nerf by any means what-so-ever.

It actually is a direct nerf to Deep Wounds which many unlocked specifically for aw and many offensive bleed champs which people ranked up specifically for aw attack. You and Kabam can call it whatever you want but well over three quarters of the player base sees this as a NERF so you're in the minority here pal.

OKAYGang

Championcritic wrote: »

OKAYGang wrote: »

The bleed immunity only encourages the use of Medusa, Mephisto, and MODOK on defense, it just makes them that much stronger since bleed was one of the few weaknesses they had.

Let's face it, people were already going to use the above champs whether or not bleed immune is introduced. They are just that good.

Well Kabam's justification for this is to get people to switch it up, this is counterproductive to that is what my point here was.

lorenzross

Non basterebbe aggiungere diversità in attacco come è stata aggiunta x la difesa?

DAYWΔLKER1

Well kabam who to blame for players using the same champs on ATK and DEF? You release IWIM, Korg, Modok with all their abilities, you also release AUTO-BLOCK champs that can only be counter by very few champs effectively... what do you expect players to use Hawkeye, Spidey Gwen when you have all these champs you releasing with better features? So with your new setup to diversify you just imbalancing or shifting the game dynamic for your gain NOT THE PLAYERs... so please let just cut the nonsense... That doesn’t sound like you trying to diversify... i hate to say it, your approach is not stupid cause you know what you planning on achieving... your focus if what you saying is true intend for the player base should be;

1. Cheating - piloting, match-fixing etc.
2. matchmaking - this is horrible having Gold alliances making up against plat1 and master alliances. You are ruining the game experience for lower alliances period...
3. Do what you want with #3 cause this is business

blindside493

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Username72647 wrote: »

What about the issue with cheating alliances getting dropped to lower tiers and roflstomping alliances they have no business playing?

So this is something we haven't really commented on yet, but I can say that we are aware of how this affects other Alliances, and is something we are looking at solutions to. We're not 100% sure on exactly what we're going to do at this time, but are looking to have something in place for Season 5.

This is simple man. If you really value following the TOS as you always say, you find a cheating alliance, ban them all from war for that season and give them no rewards. Then reinstate the next season.

Maximus_Spankerson

Yes, I am all about keeping the meta fresh. These changes aren’t bad really.

World Eater

Demonzfyre wrote: »

All I'm hearing is I can't play without a bleed debuff.

You have no clue who you're talking to or what type of skills they have in this game.

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Demonzfyre

zeezee57 wrote: »

@Demonzfyre

You can't be serious with the whole "prove you don't have to rely on a debuff" shtick. If that's the case why not ask for completely debuff immune instead of bleed immune? How about a heal block node instead so you can prove to everyone you don't have to rely on regen? If you're really so intent on backing whatever Kabam's play is that you can't see the validity in people's complaints here there's nothing that can be said to help you understand because you clearly just don't want to.

It's not about having to rely solely on bleed, its the fact that bleed is an ability that makes lots of champs special, it's what makes champs like X-23, Gwenpool, AA, Elektra, Hawkeye etc worth ranking and using and suddenly with a few weeks notice we're being told those champs that we dumped time and effort building up and mastering are no longer playable in the most competitive game mode. You really can't understand why that's a problem?

I just within the last few weeks maxed out my 4* Omega/ST/KM team with AW attack being my intention for them. Now they're no longer the potent offensive I had intended. The Omega/ST synergy I've been building up toward is completely canceled out. But I should be ok with that because??? And I have plenty of other options, what about the players who don't? Just because this isn't hurting you doesnt make it any less wrong and frankly it's taking away from the enjoyment of the game by outright wasting people's time building up champs and then making them useless.

That's why I have a diverse roster. Also I have a 5/65 Blade. Still going to use him in war. Heal block and bleed immune exists already. Again, I gave the feedback that bleed immune global isn't a good idea but i'd rather get it out of the way now than later. It's just a season and won't matter after that.

chilangocabron

Soon 4 years since the game was released yet ranking up material is so hard to get. So many 5* and 6* on players rosters but everyone is limited on who they can rank up. Gives us the opportunity to obtain ranking up resources so we stay competitive with your suggested changes.

Kpatrix

Will the global bleed immune node affect champs that armor break or gain cruelty against bleed immune champs or is this restricted to naturally bleed immune champs only ? This affects x23 and Carnage and others, and is poot planning on your part kabam, not to mention the inevitable bugs this brings with it.

borntohula

Kpatrix wrote: »

Will the global bleed immune node affect champs that armor break or gain cruelty against bleed immune champs or is this restricted to naturally bleed immune champs only ? This affects x23 and Carnage and others, and is poot planning on your part kabam, not to mention the inevitable bugs this brings with it.

I’d like this answered officially as well. If it means the champs mentioned - this goes for Yondu and Elektra as well - won’t be able to use their ‘backup’ abilities, those champs will be completely useless in AW. Especially in Gold 1 and up. There is no way they can get a 5/5 down without any abilities, given the short time. It’ll be time about after time out.

Brainimpacter

here’s the main the problem, with limited resources how are we supposed to know who to invest them in? when kabam can just make them useless from one War season to the next, leaving you with nobody useful or the resources to make someone usable for the following seasons global nodes

R4GE

With both my r5 champs being AA and Blade, who I ranked specifically for AW attack ,I can't help but feel I am being screwed rather than getting a more enjoyable or funner gameplay. Doesn't seem Ill be able to use them much and have completely wasted my rare T5 basics. "Woe is me," right? But I think many others will suffer this set back.

This seems more like an opportunity to nerf Blade w/o actually touching him. Which leads to the question, why don't you put more thought into their creation? Rather than create a champ everyone wants, blows resources on, and later take it all away from them? Money? Profit?

Changes haven't happened yet, but with this "nerf" to bleed champs in AW, I think you'll hear many arguments for RDTs. Arguments will be, "but champs haven't been changed," "They are still useful in other modes." Who cares about other modes? This game is all about AW (which posts like this make clear of) and thats what we base our rank ups around, not some silly monthly EQ that can be beaten with Spider Gwen or Kamala Khan.

If you're gonna keep forcing different forms of diversity to eliminate top ranked champs than you need to increase resources to make up for it. What you tend to think is a chance to increase roster use only pushes our chosen rank ups to the bench. Where is the diversity there? Just say you have added so many useless champs to the game and you want people to use them, whether we like it or not, and you will always make us waste resources on ranking the good champs.

Midknight007

I understand wanting to create a ever changing AW experience in order to keep it fresh. How about this... before working on and releasing new features, Kabam fixes the bugs and issues.

I just had another crash when loading an AQ match. It wasn’t because of network connection. Players are tired of losing 1/2 health for things that are not their fault. Not to mention lag, and a whole list of issues with every update of either phones/devices and of the game itself.

RagamugginGunner

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

TheSpicyKnight wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

TheSpicyKnight wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

TheSpicyKnight wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

All-in-all, I have no issues with the changes coming so far. The rotating Buffs aren't Attacker Diversity perse, at least in the sense we've come to know it. It just means more Champs will be utilized. Let's face it. It's been dominated by one Champ, and I don't feel that it's a good direction for the game to go in to have one Champ always dominate any game mode.
I'm also glad they're looking at Matchmaking manipulation. It's been one of my larger concerns. Between Collusion, Tanking, and Penalization, the Matchmaking system has been all over the place, and that's caused a detriment to many.
Glad to know these things are being considered.

Which one champ are you talking about? Corvus? Sparky? Blade? I don't know if I can agree that one champ has been dominating any game mode let alone AW. Based on the wars I've been in and countless AW vids I've watched from various Youtubers and their Alliance Mates from different tiers, I haven't seen more than 3 people use the same team in each BG. And they certainly haven't been using only one champ to clear their path.

Apparently you must not have seen the Leaderboard. Should I say the Bladerboard.

I hope you're not basing your opinion based on the Leaderboard. Back when Blade was first released, Mystic Wars were still happening especially in the higher tiers. A little while after he was released so was Act 5.4 which rewarded, anyone who fully explored it, the option to to r5 1 5* champion. It just so happened that Blade was a great counter to Mystics and had high prestige so of course the higher ups were going to choose him as their first r5 and pump every signature stone they have into him.

Fast forward to today and now we see Mystic Wars are dead and the new Auto-Block era has arrived. By now, the higher ups has at least already got their Blades to sig level 200 and their hands on a shiny new Corvus. Now since Corvus hasn't been around for as long as Blade has and introduced during the first time T5B has came out it should make sense why you'd still see more Blades than any other champ on the leaderboard, albeit a lot less.

In this current meta, Blade just isn't that useful anymore in AW at least since Kabam killed off Mystic Wars (not complaining btw). I'll be so bold to say if Kabam issued RDT's right now you'd probably see more IMIWs, Corvus Glaives, KM, or Thor Ragnaroks in place of Blade.

So yeah, I've seen the Leaderboards. But I also pay attention to when the meta shifts.

Changing MD has literally just happened, and these changes have no doubt been in the works some time. They're also ongoing, so this is just the first introduction we will likely see. I think it's a good idea overall. It's a given that the norm is to find a popular Champ for Attack, the majority use the same Champ or two, and then it becomes just the same dance with little challenge. They're adding more moving parts.

Mystic Wars were dead long before the changes to MD. The fact that it was recently nerfed just makes it a "little more dead". Also, I'm not against them trying to diversify Attack teams more. All I'm trying to say is that I disagree with what you said that currently one champ is dominating this one game mode when there's a good amount of evidence on the forums alone proving otherwise. Right now you might be thinking I'm replying just to argue but I just don't want Kabam to get the wrong idea that Blade is still the current meta.

Edit: Also, what's wrong with using the same champ as long as everyone isn't using it? I'm more comfortable using Venom/Stark Spidey than MS/AA and I tend to bring them along more because of the path I take in war.

I'm inclined to disagree that a large number weren't using Blade for War. Perhaps some were exploring other options, but the data must have shown a strong reliance on Bleed Champs, otherwise there wouldn't be the Global Node. Blade is just one example. As for the same Champ, I'm not talking bringing the same Champ ourselves. I'm talking about a majority relying on the same Champ. I'm sorry, but some people relying on alternatives doesn't change the majority reliance.

How, exactly, do you know who top tier players are using on AW attack?

NoOnexRO

Kabam, you have good intentions with these changes but maybe there is something simpler than rotating buffs in order to get that full roster use and not just the use of top heroes.

5 days cool down for all heroes placed in AW.

Each week there are 3 wars. So in these 3 wars force the players to use each time different heroes.
Not with nodes but with a cool down system similar to the one that is present in the Arenas.

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Werewrym

Here's what I want to know. Will these changes really do what the developers want them to? Will their goal for summoners to bring in a different team really happen? I highly doubt it to be honest. Blade is still just as effective without his bleed and Corvus is still the king of AW, nothing has changed. You can introduce all of the global nodes you want, but until the top tier champions aren't leaps and bounds better than our other champs, we won't stop using them.

I can tell you right now, I expect nothing to change for my team in AW, my top 3 attackers will still be my top 3 attackers. The key here is not to change AW, but to change the viability of 75% of champs. I would argue that the majority of champs never get used in AW because they simply cannot compete in the most competitive mode in the game. Until that 75% of champs get balanced to at least be usable in AW nothing is going to change. You can't tell us that you want us to use a wider variety of champs when that "variety of champs" are broken because you guys made them that way. I realize not all champs can be "god tier" but until the lower tiers of champs (which also happen to be the majority of champs) don't suck so much, not only will nothing change, nothing CAN change.

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BuddyGuyFriend

Yet another swing and a miss for kabam in 2018. You broke war and you’ve been trying to patch it for 4 seasons now. It’s pretty sad and it’s tearing groups apart, and now you’re gonna make a global node where huge swaths of peoples rosters aren’t gonna do the damage they once did? Awesome. Wow.

It seems the people involved in these discussions on behalf of the player base are contributing to an echo chamber of bad ideas and catering to the top yet again.

Disappointed_23

Everyone always complains when there is a good champ but let’s be honest if there weren’t better champs then others we wouldn’t spend on crystals to acquire these champions. The problem I see with nerfing champs is you make us spend money or resources to acquire a good champion then after you milk all the money possible from us you need the champ. I have a blade at rank 5 200 and have spent a lot of time and resources to get him there only to now have him become pointless. I have now become pointless to my team as my attack team revolves around blade. This is not just about blade it’s the fact we are pushed to getting a top champ then that same champ is nerfed somehow down the line. It’s got to stop or people will get sick of the same routine. Making all defenders bleed immune does not make AW fun or more strategic it’s just a way to nerf all bleeders and make them pointless. You guys can do better then this so please rethink this change and come up with something better.

ACKILL

Hello, I have a few suggestions:
1) make a war of choice map.
2) make buffs (1 per cell have 5 buffs and you can choose 3 bufs)
3) the most important thing to do it change all the characters in the game for balance.

Kpatrix

Maybe put the global node on 29 so you can eliminate it on a difficult fight instead.

LoPresti

Just buff older champs and make the viable (like you did with Luke, Red Hulk, Venom, Carnage, etc). These are all great reworks and makes them viable rank-up choices and usable in war.

I know you are doing it now, but at a really slow rate. Focus more on buffing older champs and it will fix a lot of issues.

Also, bleed champs were already handicapped in war. Bleed immune nodes are already everywhere in AW, now with this global buff bleeders are completely useless. The idea's are nice, I'm all for diversity, but I don't agree with the implementation on how to fix this. It's a good idea, but it needs some work.

Helicopter_dugdugdug

Now can we get the non-spin version of dev thoughts?

Bcoz I don’t think they are that naive that they don’t know the causes for such lack of attacker diversity?

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neb

I understand the need to shift the meta constantly to try and keep war from becoming stale but it doesnt matter how slowly the meta shifts if its moving faster then our ability to acquire rank up materials. Am I supposed to bring r3 5 stars to attack over my 2 r5 5 star champs? Just reducing the effectiveness of the current top tier attackers but giving no way to shift our rosters to the new evolving meta is just going to upset most players in my opinion.