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Alliance War - Season Issues (Again) [Merged Threads]

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    rwhackrwhack Posts: 1,051 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    Sports analogies don't reflect a system such as this.

    Yes they do. What else would? The problem you have is you are making a weak argument and the sports analogy knocks it over.

    In the olympics if you use PEDs and won the gold the silver medalist gets it.

    In kabams world they gave a high spending alliance a win when they didn’t match in season 1. If an alliance beats you by using mods or piloting they should get the win.

    You say you can think of ways to exploit it? Well right now modding or piloting is a way to manipulate standings. The only way to exploit an alliance getting a win when the opponent gets docked is by violating TOS.

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    rwhackrwhack Posts: 1,051 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    LeNoirFaineant wrote: »
    GroundedWisdom wrote: »
    LeNoirFaineant wrote: »
    @GroundedWisdom you keep saying that awarding the victory to the victim of cheating could be easily exploited. I don't see it. Are you suggesting that alliances would collude in order to get one side to cheat, hoping that they get caught thus awarding the victory to the other side? If you are going to do that, why not just have them lose outright? Kind of a risky exploit losing in hopes that you get awarded the victory.

    I really don't want to get into specifics, but there are a number of ways I can think of to manipulate a system like that.

    A number of ways to manipulate a system in which you lose to cheaters and get awarded the victory? It would seem that, at a minimum, it would require you losing and having the other side cheat... Since Kabam isn't doing this there is no reason to not share the many ways of which you speak. Top alliances won't be able to benefit and the contest will be safe.

    I'm not interested in providing ideas. Have you looked around? Lol. People will find any way they can to manipulate the system.

    Like I said, you have made a poor case that’s why you can’t provide details.
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    rwhackrwhack Posts: 1,051 ★★★
    edited November 2018
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Hey All,

    First of all, please remember to keep your conversations in the forums civil. We know that disagreements will arise, but attacking each other is not the way to handle them. We're all adults here and should be able to calmly discuss and debate our points of view without resorting to attacking one another.

    As for the topics at hand, we've talked about this before, but it is a tricky one. We do everything that we can to address cheating or manipulation of the Contest the best that we can, and are always working to improve both our manners of detection, but the ways in which we address and punish that behaviour. This is a priority for us.

    It's not a good feeling losing against an Alliance that is later punished for this behaviour, but unfortunately, it is not possible to tell if that Alliance cheated against you, or somebody else, or what the Terms of Service violation that caused them to have their points deducted even was.

    We do wish there was a better method here, and this is something we will continue to work to improve, but at this time, it is not possible for us to monitor exactly where an Alliance may have broken the rules, and how that affected the opposing Alliance.

    Wait, you can’t see how an alliance that gets docked impacted the alliance that lost? LOL

    Is that a serious argument. If you use in ineligible player in sports and you get caught, your team gets the loss, the other the win regardless of outcome. It’s really that simple.

    It’s not difficult. We have had losses every season against an alliance that got docked right after. One that went from 20 deaths a match to 3. If it’s too hard to see then your eyes almost have to be closed.

    ...and perhaps you forget you have a high spending alliance a win when they couldnt match. An auto win. They also got considerations that led to a top 3 finish the next season. Consistency of behavior is not a hallmark here by extension.
  • Options
    Sirnoob2Sirnoob2 Posts: 289 ★★
    edited November 2018
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Hey All,

    First of all, please remember to keep your conversations in the forums civil. We know that disagreements will arise, but attacking each other is not the way to handle them. We're all adults here and should be able to calmly discuss and debate our points of view without resorting to attacking one another.

    As for the topics at hand, we've talked about this before, but it is a tricky one. We do everything that we can to address cheating or manipulation of the Contest the best that we can, and are always working to improve both our manners of detection, but the ways in which we address and punish that behaviour. This is a priority for us.

    It's not a good feeling losing against an Alliance that is later punished for this behaviour, but unfortunately, it is not possible to tell if that Alliance cheated against you, or somebody else, or what the Terms of Service violation that caused them to have their points deducted even was.

    We do wish there was a better method here, and this is something we will continue to work to improve, but at this time, it is not possible for us to monitor exactly where an Alliance may have broken the rules, and how that affected the opposing Alliance.

    You keep saying it's not possible due to ur tos but why not change the TOS if it's so flawed that the only resolution is to screw over a entire legit allince until they find and kick the person that cheated?

    As it stands the system u have in place protects cheaters and screws over legit players that should not be ur dev teams goal
  • Options
    CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Sirnoob2 wrote: »
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Hey All,

    First of all, please remember to keep your conversations in the forums civil. We know that disagreements will arise, but attacking each other is not the way to handle them. We're all adults here and should be able to calmly discuss and debate our points of view without resorting to attacking one another.

    As for the topics at hand, we've talked about this before, but it is a tricky one. We do everything that we can to address cheating or manipulation of the Contest the best that we can, and are always working to improve both our manners of detection, but the ways in which we address and punish that behaviour. This is a priority for us.

    It's not a good feeling losing against an Alliance that is later punished for this behaviour, but unfortunately, it is not possible to tell if that Alliance cheated against you, or somebody else, or what the Terms of Service violation that caused them to have their points deducted even was.

    We do wish there was a better method here, and this is something we will continue to work to improve, but at this time, it is not possible for us to monitor exactly where an Alliance may have broken the rules, and how that affected the opposing Alliance.

    You keep saying it's not possible due to ur tos but why not change the TOS if it's so flawed that the only resolution is to screw over a entire legit allince until they find and kick the person that cheated?
    Not sure they will come out and say this was done so allies could identify offenders but every instance of docking i’ve seen in the past two seasons has coincided with an individual being banned. This shows who is responsible without specifically identifying the player.
  • Options
    xNigxNig Posts: 7,250 ★★★★★
    Sirnoob2 wrote: »
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Hey All,

    First of all, please remember to keep your conversations in the forums civil. We know that disagreements will arise, but attacking each other is not the way to handle them. We're all adults here and should be able to calmly discuss and debate our points of view without resorting to attacking one another.

    As for the topics at hand, we've talked about this before, but it is a tricky one. We do everything that we can to address cheating or manipulation of the Contest the best that we can, and are always working to improve both our manners of detection, but the ways in which we address and punish that behaviour. This is a priority for us.

    It's not a good feeling losing against an Alliance that is later punished for this behaviour, but unfortunately, it is not possible to tell if that Alliance cheated against you, or somebody else, or what the Terms of Service violation that caused them to have their points deducted even was.

    We do wish there was a better method here, and this is something we will continue to work to improve, but at this time, it is not possible for us to monitor exactly where an Alliance may have broken the rules, and how that affected the opposing Alliance.

    You keep saying it's not possible due to ur tos but why not change the TOS if it's so flawed that the only resolution is to screw over a entire legit allince until they find and kick the person that cheated?

    As it stands the system u have in place protects cheaters and screws over legit players that should not be ur dev teams goal

    Any suggestions to change the TOS to avoid revealing the person or the method that person used to cheat with?
  • Options
    MrMaatMrMaat Posts: 302 ★★
    All i know is the game data is there.
    maybe they need to adjust what is saved in the logs, but all the game data is there.
    with some effort put in there could easily be enough info to review wars where cheeating has occured and see exactly what happened.
    they may need to employ someone to do this but they should.
  • Options
    DTMelodicMetalDTMelodicMetal Posts: 2,785 ★★★★★
    MrMaat wrote: »
    All i know is the game data is there.
    maybe they need to adjust what is saved in the logs, but all the game data is there.
    with some effort put in there could easily be enough info to review wars where cheeating has occured and see exactly what happened.
    they may need to employ someone to do this but they should.

    Available time and resources determine how feasible this can be
  • Options
    MrMaatMrMaat Posts: 302 ★★
    Something that could and should be looked at.
    We are not expecting full point recalculations but a reasonable assumption that the alliance cheated against would have won and therefore entitled to the win bonus
  • Options
    RektorRektor Posts: 678 ★★★
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Rektor wrote: »
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Hey All,

    First of all, please remember to keep your conversations in the forums civil. We know that disagreements will arise, but attacking each other is not the way to handle them. We're all adults here and should be able to calmly discuss and debate our points of view without resorting to attacking one another.

    As for the topics at hand, we've talked about this before, but it is a tricky one. We do everything that we can to address cheating or manipulation of the Contest the best that we can, and are always working to improve both our manners of detection, but the ways in which we address and punish that behaviour. This is a priority for us.

    It's not a good feeling losing against an Alliance that is later punished for this behaviour, but unfortunately, it is not possible to tell if that Alliance cheated against you, or somebody else, or what the Terms of Service violation that caused them to have their points deducted even was.

    We do wish there was a better method here, and this is something we will continue to work to improve, but at this time, it is not possible for us to monitor exactly where an Alliance may have broken the rules, and how that affected the opposing Alliance.

    If solving this is truly a priority, please print out Vale84’s post from the first page. Tape it to the office refrigerator. Tape it to both sides of the front door. Put one above each urinal where you see those ads in the club and on the inside of each bathroom stall. Make it the screensaver for every computer. Run it on loop in the cafe’s tv. Slide 10 copies under the boss’ door every day.

    You never know... a solution might present itself. I’m hopeful. Thanks for everything 🙂

    Oh I've read @Vale84's suggestions for ending Collusion, and there are quite a few good points in there! We don't have much information to share at this time, but we are working to improve the matchmaking system and counter collusion tactics, but also improve matchmaking, in the future!

    Is a 1 week offseason enough to implement changes or is next season still going to suffer from the same issues @Vale84 highlighted?
  • Options
    Vale84Vale84 Posts: 308 ★★★
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Rektor wrote: »
    Kabam Miike wrote: »
    Hey All,

    First of all, please remember to keep your conversations in the forums civil. We know that disagreements will arise, but attacking each other is not the way to handle them. We're all adults here and should be able to calmly discuss and debate our points of view without resorting to attacking one another.

    As for the topics at hand, we've talked about this before, but it is a tricky one. We do everything that we can to address cheating or manipulation of the Contest the best that we can, and are always working to improve both our manners of detection, but the ways in which we address and punish that behaviour. This is a priority for us.

    It's not a good feeling losing against an Alliance that is later punished for this behaviour, but unfortunately, it is not possible to tell if that Alliance cheated against you, or somebody else, or what the Terms of Service violation that caused them to have their points deducted even was.

    We do wish there was a better method here, and this is something we will continue to work to improve, but at this time, it is not possible for us to monitor exactly where an Alliance may have broken the rules, and how that affected the opposing Alliance.

    If solving this is truly a priority, please print out Vale84’s post from the first page. Tape it to the office refrigerator. Tape it to both sides of the front door. Put one above each urinal where you see those ads in the club and on the inside of each bathroom stall. Make it the screensaver for every computer. Run it on loop in the cafe’s tv. Slide 10 copies under the boss’ door every day.

    You never know... a solution might present itself. I’m hopeful. Thanks for everything 🙂

    Oh I've read @Vale84's suggestions for ending Collusion, and there are quite a few good points in there! We don't have much information to share at this time, but we are working to improve the matchmaking system and counter collusion tactics, but also improve matchmaking, in the future!

    I must say a tear is slowly cracking on my fave as i read this, and it’s a wild feeling of overwhelming joy. It s nice not butting heads for once with you. Half of what i wrote can be done with 5 to 12 mins of code work. Hopefully s6 has few tenporary fixes already in place.

    Also thanks to the guy above miike for the support
  • Options
    Al3xAl3x Posts: 42 ★
    So @Kabam Miike, will there be any matchmaking improvement done before season 6?
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