Act 4 Energy Reduction

2

Comments

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,953 Guardian
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    So heres the question.

    You went to Walmart a few months back and bought something.

    It's now gone down in price does Walmart owe you the difference?
    Of course not and they would laugh at you for asking.
    So tell me why you think kabam owes you

    Actually, many reputable retail stores DO give you money back when prices drop on a product. You take your product receipt into the store and they happily give you money back. Your response to my statement suggests that you have not yet experienced the struggle of earning money, which many people spend on this game. Everyone in this thread who trivializes the concept of a virtual product that is owned by a company that feels it can adjust pricing that has a sweeping effect on how it affects its player base is in my opinion either naive, ignorant or complicit in its true intent to garner more profit at the expensive of existing clients.

    Usually 30 days. Not 3+ years.

    I've played MMOs where if they made a major enough change to something or discounted the price they would offer some sort of compensation to players that made a related transaction within some short period of time, like 30 days. That never extended to changes to the difficulty of the content. In this case I don't think anyone could have used three energy recently because of the temporary reduction in the first place, so there would be no justification in demanding an energy "refund."
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,953 Guardian
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    Oh so now that you have more new players joining the game they get to complete Act 4 using less energy, that’s nice 🙄 what about all of us that did it when it was 50% more energy than it will be now? Will we get that energy back?

    50%......? 3 energy down to 2 energy....= you are bad at math.

    In fairness, the old cost is 50% more than what it is now. It is now 33% less than it was.

    However, the correct comparison if anyone is complaining is to compare your cost to the new cost. My cost was three, their cost is two, their cost is 33% less than mine. Comparing their cost to my cost is their perspective not mine.

    Was it ever 4 per step?

    Three reduced by one is a 33% reduction from three. But two increased by one (to three) is a 50% increase of two. The current cost is 33% less than our original cost. But the original cost is 50% higher than the current cost. In those two statements, the "base" is different, thus the percentage change is different relative to the base.
  • TankRT83TankRT83 Posts: 78
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    Oh so now that you have more new players joining the game they get to complete Act 4 using less energy, that’s nice 🙄 what about all of us that did it when it was 50% more energy than it will be now? Will we get that energy back?

    50%......? 3 energy down to 2 energy....= you are bad at math.

    In fairness, the old cost is 50% more than what it is now. It is now 33% less than it was.

    However, the correct comparison if anyone is complaining is to compare your cost to the new cost. My cost was three, their cost is two, their cost is 33% less than mine. Comparing their cost to my cost is their perspective not mine.

    In fairness, Tank said "when it was 50% more energy than it will be now", which is 100% correct.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?

    Because they give you one free energy every six minutes, I guess.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 9,730 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    Oh so now that you have more new players joining the game they get to complete Act 4 using less energy, that’s nice 🙄 what about all of us that did it when it was 50% more energy than it will be now? Will we get that energy back?

    50%......? 3 energy down to 2 energy....= you are bad at math.

    In fairness, the old cost is 50% more than what it is now. It is now 33% less than it was.

    However, the correct comparison if anyone is complaining is to compare your cost to the new cost. My cost was three, their cost is two, their cost is 33% less than mine. Comparing their cost to my cost is their perspective not mine.

    Was it ever 4 per step?

    Three reduced by one is a 33% reduction from three. But two increased by one (to three) is a 50% increase of two. The current cost is 33% less than our original cost. But the original cost is 50% higher than the current cost. In those two statements, the "base" is different, thus the percentage change is different relative to the base.

    Im just going with 33% since its 1 less per step.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,953 Guardian
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    Oh so now that you have more new players joining the game they get to complete Act 4 using less energy, that’s nice 🙄 what about all of us that did it when it was 50% more energy than it will be now? Will we get that energy back?

    50%......? 3 energy down to 2 energy....= you are bad at math.

    In fairness, the old cost is 50% more than what it is now. It is now 33% less than it was.

    However, the correct comparison if anyone is complaining is to compare your cost to the new cost. My cost was three, their cost is two, their cost is 33% less than mine. Comparing their cost to my cost is their perspective not mine.

    In fairness, Tank said "when it was 50% more energy than it will be now", which is 100% correct.

    That is, in fact, what I said. But I also said that while what he said was numerically correct, that's not the right comparison to assert. We don't normally talk about how much better someone else is to me relative to them. We talk about how much better someone else is than me relative to me. For example, if I get one and she gets two, I say "why did she get twice as much as me." Because two is twice one: her amount is twice my amount: the base of the comparison is me. I do not say "why did she get 50% of her amount more than I did" because that's weird.

    If my energy costs were three, and the current players' energy costs are two, their costs are 67% of mine, or 33% less than mine. Their costs are 50% of their costs less than mine, but that's a misleading way to pump up the number.
  • TankRT83TankRT83 Posts: 78
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    So heres the question.

    You went to Walmart a few months back and bought something.

    It's now gone down in price does Walmart owe you the difference?
    Of course not and they would laugh at you for asking.
    So tell me why you think kabam owes you

    Actually, many reputable retail stores DO give you money back when prices drop on a product. You take your product receipt into the store and they happily give you money back. Your response to my statement suggests that you have not yet experienced the struggle of earning money, which many people spend on this game. Everyone in this thread who trivializes the concept of a virtual product that is owned by a company that feels it can adjust pricing that has a sweeping effect on how it affects its player base is in my opinion either naive, ignorant or complicit in its true intent to garner more profit at the expensive of existing clients.

    Theres a time limit on that go return your 3 year old TV set and let me know if Walmart refunded you the purchase price
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?

    The content is devalued you want all you energy back? Ask kabam to take the rewards from you back and reset act 4..

    How about they give everyone who completed Act 4 before the energy drop 33% of the Rewards from all of Act 4, since that’s what the energy drop is gonna do for the new players
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,953 Guardian
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?

    It is neither fair nor unfair, because you don't get to compare what you did years ago with what happens now for fairness. The calendar gives away 5* shards now to new players. I didn't get free 5* champs when I was a new player. That's neither fair nor unfair. It just is.

    They give away full energy refills now in peak milestones. If the energy reduction of Act 4 is unfair, then those energy refills would also be unfair because new players get to use them in content I wasn't allowed to, because I did them already. New players get the benefit of the glory store when I did not at their progression level. Anyone starting now gets more stuff earlier. They can simply stomp all over content like RoL and even LoL is much easier than it used to be, simply because the champions we can bring into that content are so much more powerful. That is neither fair nor unfair. That's just the way the game changes over time.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    Oh so now that you have more new players joining the game they get to complete Act 4 using less energy, that’s nice 🙄 what about all of us that did it when it was 50% more energy than it will be now? Will we get that energy back?

    50%......? 3 energy down to 2 energy....= you are bad at math.

    In fairness, the old cost is 50% more than what it is now. It is now 33% less than it was.

    However, the correct comparison if anyone is complaining is to compare your cost to the new cost. My cost was three, their cost is two, their cost is 33% less than mine. Comparing their cost to my cost is their perspective not mine.

    In fairness, Tank said "when it was 50% more energy than it will be now", which is 100% correct.

    For example, if I get one and she gets two, I say "why did she get twice as much as me." Because two is twice one: her amount is twice my amount: the base of the comparison is me. I do not say "why did she get 50% of her amount more than I did" because that's weird.

    I would ask why I only got half of what she did. My base of comparison is her.
  • IKONIKON Posts: 470 ★★★
    They never should have gave compensation at all for the reduction. Just opened the door to this thread.
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Posts: 1,794 ★★★★★
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Snizzbar wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    Oh so now that you have more new players joining the game they get to complete Act 4 using less energy, that’s nice 🙄 what about all of us that did it when it was 50% more energy than it will be now? Will we get that energy back?

    50%......? 3 energy down to 2 energy....= you are bad at math.

    In fairness, the old cost is 50% more than what it is now. It is now 33% less than it was.

    However, the correct comparison if anyone is complaining is to compare your cost to the new cost. My cost was three, their cost is two, their cost is 33% less than mine. Comparing their cost to my cost is their perspective not mine.

    In fairness, Tank said "when it was 50% more energy than it will be now", which is 100% correct.

    For example, if I get one and she gets two, I say "why did she get twice as much as me." Because two is twice one: her amount is twice my amount: the base of the comparison is me. I do not say "why did she get 50% of her amount more than I did" because that's weird.

    I would ask why I only got half of what she did. My base of comparison is her.

    I would just take hers.

    That would certainly explain a few of your comments.
  • BDVMBDVM Posts: 62
    edited January 2019
    "How about you just grow up and deal with life? The content is devalued it would be stupid to not reduce the cost at this point"

    Somebody is sounding very much like a certain somebody that works at Kabam LMAO ... maybe a fan of his or a wanna be employee smh

  • BDVMBDVM Posts: 62
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?

    It is neither fair nor unfair, because you don't get to compare what you did years ago with what happens now for fairness. The calendar gives away 5* shards now to new players. I didn't get free 5* champs when I was a new player. That's neither fair nor unfair. It just is.

    They give away full energy refills now in peak milestones. If the energy reduction of Act 4 is unfair, then those energy refills would also be unfair because new players get to use them in content I wasn't allowed to, because I did them already. New players get the benefit of the glory store when I did not at their progression level. Anyone starting now gets more stuff earlier. They can simply stomp all over content like RoL and even LoL is much easier than it used to be, simply because the champions we can bring into that content are so much more powerful. That is neither fair nor unfair. That's just the way the game changes over time.

    I agree with your premise, however the change in energy required to complete Act 4 content is something that every player previously needed to over come. By modifying the cost of energy (which is basically time or units spent on LER), Kabam has increased the rate of advancement to become Uncollected which is what they are promoting. Getting access to UC monthly quests and offers (where Kabam makes most of its money) is what this will promote. If updating the game is so important why not change the rewards for ROL as well since they are also out of date. While they are at it, change the champ rewards in LOL as well.
  • BDVMBDVM Posts: 62
    edited January 2019
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    How about you just grow up and deal with life? The content is devalued it would be stupid to not reduce the cost at this point

    Somebody is sounding very much like a certain somebody that works at Kabam LMAO ... maybe a fan of his or a wanna be employee smh

    [/quote]

    I'd never accept that job. No way I could deal with the whining about **** all the time like that..[/quote]

    Yet here you are defending Kabam's decision to ease other players into the game without compensating all of us for our time and money. Maybe you are a Russian hacker trying to rig the polling of this question LMAO
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 10,953 Guardian
    BDVM wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?

    It is neither fair nor unfair, because you don't get to compare what you did years ago with what happens now for fairness. The calendar gives away 5* shards now to new players. I didn't get free 5* champs when I was a new player. That's neither fair nor unfair. It just is.

    They give away full energy refills now in peak milestones. If the energy reduction of Act 4 is unfair, then those energy refills would also be unfair because new players get to use them in content I wasn't allowed to, because I did them already. New players get the benefit of the glory store when I did not at their progression level. Anyone starting now gets more stuff earlier. They can simply stomp all over content like RoL and even LoL is much easier than it used to be, simply because the champions we can bring into that content are so much more powerful. That is neither fair nor unfair. That's just the way the game changes over time.

    I agree with your premise, however the change in energy required to complete Act 4 content is something that every player previously needed to over come. By modifying the cost of energy (which is basically time or units spent on LER), Kabam has increased the rate of advancement to become Uncollected which is what they are promoting. Getting access to UC monthly quests and offers (where Kabam makes most of its money) is what this will promote. If updating the game is so important why not change the rewards for ROL as well since they are also out of date. While they are at it, change the champ rewards in LOL as well.

    Simply put, because the data says so. Given how I know these kinds of games are managed, it is obvious to me that previous statements by Kabam state that they have always wondered if the player complaints about Act 4 energy costs actually had a real impact on how players played the game. So they finally decided to experiment with temporary reductions. And what they discovered is that when they do that, there is a measurable uptick in players deciding to run the content. And it is precisely because Act 4 is on the progression path that if there is a significant hurdle that is larger than they want holding players back that they address it.

    They aren't changing the energy costs of Act 4 because they are "out of date." They are doing it because the data says the energy barrier is higher than the designers currently intend, and they have conclusive evidence that lowering the energy costs addresses that problem. The data says there's a problem, and the data also says this is the solution.

    Altering the rewards for RoL and LoL wouldn't have the same impact on progress, because neither of those content pieces gate progress like Act 4 does. There is no incentive for the developers to encourage players to complete either of those any faster than players already do.
  • BDVMBDVM Posts: 62
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    Drooped2 wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    How about you just grow up and deal with life? The content is devalued it would be stupid to not reduce the cost at this point

    Somebody is sounding very much like a certain somebody that works at Kabam LMAO ... maybe a fan of his or a wanna be employee smh

    I'd never accept that job. No way I could deal with the whining about **** all the time like that..

    Yet here you are defending Kabam's decision to ease other players into the game without compensating all of us for our time and money lol[/quote]

    Im defending the right decision. Its a devalued product would you pay full price for a devalued product?..

    People are one passing it and going to act 5.. kabam wants people running it still[/quote]

    As you said previously, energy is free if they wait for it. Why is it important for new players to fully complete Act 4? Oh yeah, they want the rewards so they can bolster their roster for moving into Act 5. I don't care if people get better rewards elsewhere in the game. I had to painfully wait to build the correct roster to tackle specific content. If people wish to complete the content, it should include the same conditions as when everyone else did it. We don't agree on this, end of story.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 9,730 ★★★★★
    BDVM wrote: »
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    TankRT83 wrote: »
    When I did Act 4 I used 14910 energy all up, anyone starting it from now on is gonna have to use 9940, how exactly is that fair?

    It is neither fair nor unfair, because you don't get to compare what you did years ago with what happens now for fairness. The calendar gives away 5* shards now to new players. I didn't get free 5* champs when I was a new player. That's neither fair nor unfair. It just is.

    They give away full energy refills now in peak milestones. If the energy reduction of Act 4 is unfair, then those energy refills would also be unfair because new players get to use them in content I wasn't allowed to, because I did them already. New players get the benefit of the glory store when I did not at their progression level. Anyone starting now gets more stuff earlier. They can simply stomp all over content like RoL and even LoL is much easier than it used to be, simply because the champions we can bring into that content are so much more powerful. That is neither fair nor unfair. That's just the way the game changes over time.

    I agree with your premise, however the change in energy required to complete Act 4 content is something that every player previously needed to over come. By modifying the cost of energy (which is basically time or units spent on LER), Kabam has increased the rate of advancement to become Uncollected which is what they are promoting. Getting access to UC monthly quests and offers (where Kabam makes most of its money) is what this will promote. If updating the game is so important why not change the rewards for ROL as well since they are also out of date. While they are at it, change the champ rewards in LOL as well.

    Well actually they only need one run through act 4 to open act 5. That arguement doesnt hold much value.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 9,730 ★★★★★
    edited January 2019
    BDVM wrote: »
    As you said previously, energy is free if they wait for it. Why is it important for new players to fully complete Act 4? Oh yeah, they want the rewards so they can bolster their roster for moving into Act 5. I don't care if people get better rewards elsewhere in the game. I had to painfully wait to build the correct roster to tackle specific content. If people wish to complete the content, it should include the same conditions as when everyone else did it. We don't agree on this, end of story.

    Soooooo..... Anyone alive before cars should get a free car.
    Anyone alive before computers should get a computer.
    Anyone alive before cell phones should get a free phone?
    The LG V40 came out and makes everything easier because its better than my V30, should I get the V40 for free because LG made changes to the phone to make it better?
  • XxOriginalxXXxOriginalxX Posts: 1,325 ★★★
    2 weeks ago I was at 29% exploration now I am at 83%, I can’t be mad lol, I’d love more for the energy I used for initial clear but like this is so beneficial overall it doesn’t bother me
  • BDVMBDVM Posts: 62
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    As you said previously, energy is free if they wait for it. Why is it important for new players to fully complete Act 4? Oh yeah, they want the rewards so they can bolster their roster for moving into Act 5. I don't care if people get better rewards elsewhere in the game. I had to painfully wait to build the correct roster to tackle specific content. If people wish to complete the content, it should include the same conditions as when everyone else did it. We don't agree on this, end of story.

    Soooooo..... Anyone alive before cars should get a free car.
    Anyone alive before computers should get a computer.
    Anyone alive before cell phones should get a free phone?
    The LG V40 came out and makes everything easier because its better than my V30, should I get the V40 for free because LG made changes to the phone to make it better?

    We are talking about a virtual game, not a physical product or depreciating asset. Your comparison is not logical.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 9,730 ★★★★★
    BDVM wrote: »
    Demonzfyre wrote: »
    BDVM wrote: »
    As you said previously, energy is free if they wait for it. Why is it important for new players to fully complete Act 4? Oh yeah, they want the rewards so they can bolster their roster for moving into Act 5. I don't care if people get better rewards elsewhere in the game. I had to painfully wait to build the correct roster to tackle specific content. If people wish to complete the content, it should include the same conditions as when everyone else did it. We don't agree on this, end of story.

    Soooooo..... Anyone alive before cars should get a free car.
    Anyone alive before computers should get a computer.
    Anyone alive before cell phones should get a free phone?
    The LG V40 came out and makes everything easier because its better than my V30, should I get the V40 for free because LG made changes to the phone to make it better?

    We are talking about a virtual game, not a physical product or depreciating asset. Your comparison is not logical.

    A virtual game you don't own or control. Kabam made a move to keep drawing players in which is their choice. They made a smart business move but people like you cant just be happy for the new player base. Its always "me, me, me".
This discussion has been closed.