Fixes for Ebony Maw opponets

Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
edited May 2019 in Bugs and Known Issues
Ultron was just updated to allow for him to be able to fight Maw. This would seem to indicate unwinnable matches weren't intended.

Since a fix just got put in to allow for Ultron against Maw. Can some of the other champs who are completely hosed against Maw have some type of saving mechanic to avoid unwinnable matches.

Such as elektra, will never land a hit on Maw once he is below 15% health.

Or Corvus who requires 500(not an exact figure just rough estimate, trolls feel free not to debate number) light hits to kill him

Comments

  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Member Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    @Dtl7714

    The bug with Ultron was that on his 5th hit, he gets a guaranteed crit and a "miss" wouldn't reset the counter. This means he was perpetually stuck on the 5th hit, which would in turn always miss. Presumably, the fix is to allow the "miss" to count in order to start the counter over. I haven't tested, but it sounds like every 5th hit from Ultron will still miss. The fix sounds logical in this scenario.

    What do you propose for the Elektra situation? In theory, she could still stun him and hit him below 15% thanks to her ability accuracy reduction when debuffs are present (this needs testing). This becomes an issue if Maw is ever debuff immune, but I'm not sure I can think of a scenario where this situation would completely stonewall me.

    In other words, additional nodes could make him unbeatable by Elektra, but this isn't new. There are plenty of champ/node combinations that would make certain matchups unwinnable by some champs. But in a straight duel or arena match, assuming Elektra's AAR works as it should, this is not an unwinnable situation.

    The long-winded question boils down to this: what do you propose as a solution?
  • HaminHamin Member Posts: 2,444 ★★★★★
    ^make Elektra's passive ability to be like +10000 to crit rating instead of making it 100%.

    Essentially, it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's not translated as a 100% critical chance.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Hamin said:

    ^make Elektra's passive ability to be like +10000 to crit rating instead of making it 100%.

    Essentially, it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's not translated as a 100% critical chance.

    Except that would completely negate the intent of maw. I mean a fix for corvus is simple, make it so that his charges are used on a miss. That would fix him while keeping the intent of maw.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Hamin said:

    ^make Elektra's passive ability to be like +10000 to crit rating instead of making it 100%.

    Essentially, it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's not translated as a 100% critical chance.

    Except that would completely negate the intent of maw. I mean a fix for corvus is simple, make it so that his charges are used on a miss. That would fix him while keeping the intent of maw.
    That would actually be a good idea. Kind of like burning your charges so you can actually do damage to Mr. Sinister inbetween charges restoring.
  • Ch1efsterCh1efster Member Posts: 477 ★★★
    edited May 2019
    Lormif said:

    Hamin said:

    ^make Elektra's passive ability to be like +10000 to crit rating instead of making it 100%.

    Essentially, it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's not translated as a 100% critical chance.

    Except that would completely negate the intent of maw. I mean a fix for corvus is simple, make it so that his charges are used on a miss. That would fix him while keeping the intent of maw.
    I see where people are coming from on this. My main attackers aren't affected by this issue, so doesn't matter as much to me personally.

    But, would making Corvus use a charge on a miss, which could help him out fighting Maw, potentially hurt in other fights. I have a feeling if they do this, he would lose a charge in other fights whenever he doesn't land an attack and waste charges faster. Unless it only happens on a "miss", then maybe only affected when missing Ghosts phase, Hood invisibility or Maw. The way they implement some of these "fixes" seem to always trickle down and affect other things at the same time.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    A fix to Ultron doesn't mean the entire design was unintended.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Member Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Ch1efster said:

    Lormif said:

    Hamin said:

    ^make Elektra's passive ability to be like +10000 to crit rating instead of making it 100%.

    Essentially, it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's not translated as a 100% critical chance.

    Except that would completely negate the intent of maw. I mean a fix for corvus is simple, make it so that his charges are used on a miss. That would fix him while keeping the intent of maw.
    I see where people are coming from on this. My main attackers aren't affected by this issue, so doesn't matter as much to me personally.

    But, would making Corvus use a charge on a miss, which could help him out fighting Maw, potentially hurt in other fights. I have a feeling if they do this, he would lose a charge in other fights whenever he doesn't land an attack and waste charges faster. Unless it only happens on a "miss", then maybe only affected when missing Ghosts phase, Hood invisibility or Maw. The way they implement some of these "fixes" seem to always trickle down and affect other things at the same time.
    Don't forget Vulture
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Ch1efster said:

    Lormif said:

    Hamin said:

    ^make Elektra's passive ability to be like +10000 to crit rating instead of making it 100%.

    Essentially, it's a guaranteed critical hit, but it's not translated as a 100% critical chance.

    Except that would completely negate the intent of maw. I mean a fix for corvus is simple, make it so that his charges are used on a miss. That would fix him while keeping the intent of maw.
    I see where people are coming from on this. My main attackers aren't affected by this issue, so doesn't matter as much to me personally.

    But, would making Corvus use a charge on a miss, which could help him out fighting Maw, potentially hurt in other fights. I have a feeling if they do this, he would lose a charge in other fights whenever he doesn't land an attack and waste charges faster. Unless it only happens on a "miss", then maybe only affected when missing Ghosts phase, Hood invisibility or Maw. The way they implement some of these "fixes" seem to always trickle down and affect other things at the same time.
    Those are all controllable. You can chose to hold back until they are back in phase. I think it would be a small price to pay.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★

    To say it's broken and intended is contradictory.
    GroundedWisdom said:

    A fix to Ultron doesn't mean the entire design was unintended.

    Great, more of your semantics games.

    Got it you feel they fixed something that wasnt broken. You love the idea of this mechanic.

    New discussion here. This has to do with their acknowledgemnt it want right and they made an adjustmet.

    Common sense dictates if they fixed it, it was broken. If its broke the fix should apply to others.

    I know you consider it balance and natural progression. Others dont.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    No, you're jumping to conclusions, the same as assuming it's a sign of future Champs. Fixing a bug doesn't mean the entire design of Maw is flawed.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Dtl7714 said:


    To say it's broken and intended is contradictory.

    GroundedWisdom said:

    A fix to Ultron doesn't mean the entire design was unintended.

    Great, more of your semantics games.

    Got it you feel they fixed something that wasnt broken. You love the idea of this mechanic.

    New discussion here. This has to do with their acknowledgemnt it want right and they made an adjustmet.

    Common sense dictates if they fixed it, it was broken. If its broke the fix should apply to others.

    I know you consider it balance and natural progression. Others dont.
    to say the design concept is intentional, but ultron interaction was bugged is not contradictory. Common sense dictates that ultron was broke so they fixed it, you cannot apply it to the entire design. Your argument is an over generalization fallacy.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Dtl7714 said:


    To say it's broken and intended is contradictory.

    GroundedWisdom said:

    A fix to Ultron doesn't mean the entire design was unintended.

    Great, more of your semantics games.

    Got it you feel they fixed something that wasnt broken. You love the idea of this mechanic.

    New discussion here. This has to do with their acknowledgemnt it want right and they made an adjustmet.

    Common sense dictates if they fixed it, it was broken. If its broke the fix should apply to others.

    I know you consider it balance and natural progression. Others dont.
    to say the design concept is intentional, but ultron interaction was bugged is not contradictory. Common sense dictates that ultron was broke so they fixed it, you cannot apply it to the entire design. Your argument is an over generalization fallacy.
    And now your saying Ultron was broke. You havent been anywhere near that stance in any Maw thread either. Funny how now that they fixed Ultron you and Grounded wisdom modified your stances instantly
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Dtl7714 said:

    Lormif said:

    Dtl7714 said:


    To say it's broken and intended is contradictory.

    GroundedWisdom said:

    A fix to Ultron doesn't mean the entire design was unintended.

    Great, more of your semantics games.

    Got it you feel they fixed something that wasnt broken. You love the idea of this mechanic.

    New discussion here. This has to do with their acknowledgemnt it want right and they made an adjustmet.

    Common sense dictates if they fixed it, it was broken. If its broke the fix should apply to others.

    I know you consider it balance and natural progression. Others dont.
    to say the design concept is intentional, but ultron interaction was bugged is not contradictory. Common sense dictates that ultron was broke so they fixed it, you cannot apply it to the entire design. Your argument is an over generalization fallacy.
    And now your saying Ultron was broke. You havent been anywhere near that stance in any Maw thread either. Funny how now that they fixed Ultron you and Grounded wisdom modified your stances instantly
    Maybe you should stop blindly posting, because I have never stated ultrons interaction was or was not intentional, or was bugged/not bugged. I was very careful not to weigh in on it.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    No, you're jumping to conclusions, the same as assuming it's a sign of future Champs. Fixing a bug doesn't mean the entire design of Maw is flawed.

    I'm not blindly assuming it's a sign of future champ abilities. I am trying to make sure it is not encouraged. If no one complains they will think it's okay. My preference is for this not to continue. Just because you think it would be fun is great for you but many people disagree
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  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    Dtl7714 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    No, you're jumping to conclusions, the same as assuming it's a sign of future Champs. Fixing a bug doesn't mean the entire design of Maw is flawed.

    I'm not blindly assuming it's a sign of future champ abilities. I am trying to make sure it is not encouraged. If no one complains they will think it's okay. My preference is for this not to continue. Just because you think it would be fun is great for you but many people disagree
    So you're hoping to accomplish that by suggesting they fix every Champ against him? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of making the mechanic?
    Elektra is questionable. That doesn't make every Champ affected by it bugged.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    GroundedWisdom said:

    Dtl7714 said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    No, you're jumping to conclusions, the same as assuming it's a sign of future Champs. Fixing a bug doesn't mean the entire design of Maw is flawed.

    I'm not blindly assuming it's a sign of future champ abilities. I am trying to make sure it is not encouraged. If no one complains they will think it's okay. My preference is for this not to continue. Just because you think it would be fun is great for you but many people disagree
    So you're hoping to accomplish that by suggesting they fix every Champ against him? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of making the mechanic?
    Elektra is questionable. That doesn't make every Champ affected by it bugged.
    Yes it would defeat the purpose of the mechanic, and I am fine with that. In case you havent noticed I am not a fan.

    And rhetorical questions aside. They fixed Ultron without even acknowledging it as a bug until after the fix. Hope that can be applied to ohers
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    I'm making the point that just because Maw has the Ability and you don't like it, does not make it a bug. Clearly that point isn't going over.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    That's your opinion. Your welcome to it. I disagree.

    So yet again, agree to diagree.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Member Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Considering the Ultron fix. They should soon make a miss eat Corvus' charges. It's the exact same thing.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    RagamugginGunner said:

    Considering the Ultron fix. They should soon make a miss eat Corvus' charges. It's the exact same thing.

    not exactly the same, you can still hit maw with corvus you just have to use light attacks. With ultron after 4 hits you could never hit him again. I am not saying they wont or shouldnt change corvus to eat charges, after all I was the one that posted it, just pointing out it is not the exact same thing, just similar.
  • Dtl7714Dtl7714 Member Posts: 478 ★★★
    edited May 2019
    I think this misses burning charges is okay. People who instantly dismiss that should bear in mind you are potentially eating 20 combos as Maw can hit you after every miss. So while somewhat of a fix you still are hosed
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Member Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    Considering the Ultron fix. They should soon make a miss eat Corvus' charges. It's the exact same thing.

    not exactly the same, you can still hit maw with corvus you just have to use light attacks. With ultron after 4 hits you could never hit him again. I am not saying they wont or shouldnt change corvus to eat charges, after all I was the one that posted it, just pointing out it is not the exact same thing, just similar.
    They're counting the miss as a hit so the Champ can function. That's the same thing.
  • NanosamaNanosama Member Posts: 61 ★
    There are so many options you can use against Ebon Maw, I don’t understand for the life of me why you guys are so fixated on Corvus and Ghost. They don’t work against him, use another champ...
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    RagamugginGunner said:

    Lormif said:

    RagamugginGunner said:

    Considering the Ultron fix. They should soon make a miss eat Corvus' charges. It's the exact same thing.

    not exactly the same, you can still hit maw with corvus you just have to use light attacks. With ultron after 4 hits you could never hit him again. I am not saying they wont or shouldnt change corvus to eat charges, after all I was the one that posted it, just pointing out it is not the exact same thing, just similar.
    They're counting the miss as a hit so the Champ can function. That's the same thing.
    except corvus can already function, he can already win, just with a lot more work. that is the point. They dont need to change corvus because corvus does not get into an endless cycle of missing, untron had no other choice.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,634 ★★★★★
    It wasn't the same thing. Ultron's 5th Hit Counter was patched to reset after the 5th hit.
  • Kabam ZibiitKabam Zibiit Administrator Posts: 7,033
    Hey there everyone, the change to Ultron was made because it was not intended for Ultron to be permanently unable to hit Ebony Maw after Ultron's guaranteed crit would activate. However, Ebony Maw's design is still that he will cause guaranteed critical hits to Miss against him. Since all of Elektra's attacks are guaranteed to crit after her opponent is at or below 15% health, she will Miss Ebony Maw as designed. Similarly, Covus' abilities state that he will spend one of his Glaive Charges every time he hits with a Basic Attack with his Glaive and that these attacks are guaranteed critical hits. Since they are guaranteed criticals, Ebony Maw is designed to force them to Miss; since they miss, the Glaive Charges will not be spent. This may make this fight harder for Corvus, but we won't change him to use a Glaive Charge on a Miss because this would have larger impacts on his ability to fight other Champions. Hope that helps clear things up!
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