Onslaught - his crush won't activate if opponent has armor up buff.
Bullseye - killer instinct immediately go off after special launch + opponent can't take bleed damage if they parry the first hit of special + defensive bullseye have high chance to throw a special attack.
Serpent ain't that bad, dust is more bad imo.
For dust - She can't inflict sand if she is inflicted with cowardice effect.
Photon is not hard, if you know how to intercept and dex, and of course got some tactical knowledge, and if the AI cooperates with you and it always does for me
We had them before, Korg, KM, Bishop, Domino, and even the like of Attuma, Nick etc.
It is not a problem, if they come once in a while, give players a chance to chase them, while also learn how to counter then, and even getting hard counter for.
The problem I find right now it the number of OP Defenders being released back to back recently, this something even Vega said. So far we got:-
Photon, Maestro, Onslaught, Bullseye, Dust and now Serpent (and we are only in beginning of March), yes all of these champs have some kind if counter, but not many and all still requirer high skill level.
On top of that, the option to purchase brand new 6* champs right away. We already got 6* Serpent full ranked up in BG.
If this trend keep going, it not long before big account players can try stack up 30 OP Def, ban 3 best Attackers, and just chill with a guaranteed wins their way to GC, forget about skill.
Overall it feel like new approaches from Kabam focussing mainly on "endplayer" content, impossible Nodea and OP Def really creating massive imbalance to the game and drain all the fun out most game modes.
Photon is not hard, if you know how to intercept and dex, and of course got some tactical knowledge, and if the AI cooperates with you and it always does for me
Kabaam idea of creating a tough defender remove willpower, undexable+ unlockable special attacks with unavoidable damage. It's becoming more of counters than skill.
Kabaam idea of creating a tough defender remove willpower, undexable+ unlockable special attacks with unavoidable damage. It's becoming more of counters than skill.
They will eventually release a champion shut down all mastery.
@GrO_ot78 lmao you added no value the the discussion, you just commented to flex finishing Photon with Nick Fury’s second life 💀 I’ve finished Photon with Valk and Kingpin on 100% but that’s why I didn’t make her one of the main points of my discussion post. She isn’t as bad as the other 3 but the unblockable specials are still ridiculous even though she can be finished on 100%
Photon is not hard, if you know how to intercept and dex, and of course got some tactical knowledge.
Dude you got 46k points, that's a loss in most matches in higher BGs tiers. Also that's a 6 star photon. If you play against a bigger roster, you will start facing awakened 7 star photons at R3 with block penetration stat focus and that's a whole different story and would take you even longer.
I agree photon is less annoying than bullseye and onslaught, but you're picture does not support this at all.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
@GroundedWisdom fans asked for better champs on attack because they kept releasing champs that weren’t hitting hard… not once were players asking for better defenders lol what are you talking about.
Kabaam idea of creating a tough defender remove willpower, undexable+ unlockable special attacks with unavoidable damage. It's becoming more of counters than skill.
They will eventually release a champion shut down all mastery.
Taskmaster buff - Passive: As the true master of the contest, Taskmaster refuses to recognize the masteries of others, which are removed when in combat with him. Additionally, because Taskmaster can expect the opponent's moves, including dexing, blocking, and intercepting, all of these abilities are removed.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
I think what people dislike the most is the shutting down of masteries and unavoidable damage. The masteries because it feels like you are taking away something people invested in, and the damage, because it's just kind of bull to take extra damage regardless of how well you played. Fix those things and there will be a lot less complaining.
Victory track meta is nothing, Kabam can easily make Storm & Kitty useless, then what you are going to do?
Just use your relic when he activates his evade and push him to sp2. If you're using someone like Venom or Archangel, he will be dead very soon after that.
Doesn't Bullseye's awakened ability at sig 200 shut down AA? I thought it did.
I've seen people kill my bullseye in 28 seconds with AA.
Is it happening consistently though? Cause it's 50% chance to purify 50% of all debuffs if people are getting lucky more often than not then that's weird.
There are more counters /options to bullseye than you think. You mainly need a bleed immune and you can play around the killer instinct by waiting it out. Yes it stalls the fight in BGs, but he has such a tiny healthpool that the fight ends really fast, and the sig 200 won’t be making much of a difference unless theyre using someone like scorp/ham who aren’t even ideal to begin with
Name all these counters then, if he had that many counters people wouldn't be struggling so much.
@GrO_ot78 lmao you added no value the the discussion, you just commented to flex finishing Photon with Nick Fury’s second life 💀 I’ve finished Photon with Valk and Kingpin on 100% but that’s why I didn’t make her one of the main points of my discussion post. She isn’t as bad as the other 3 but the unblockable specials are still ridiculous even though she can be finished on 100%
I’m a 💩 paragon in plat3 atm, been here for a week, I don’t have anything to flex about 👻
Nearly 50% of the past ~15 champs are meta defenders (Kindred, Photon, Maestro, Onslaught, Bullseye, Dust, Serpent). They require specific counters and with the RNG of BGs it comes down to who lucks into drafting the most unwinnable matches. That's just garbage.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
This explanation would make sense if attackers exist to counter the newest defenders. But even if Bullseye has a counter or two in game, that's not good enough for the restrictive metas you're putting out . I can't always use Storm to beat Bullseye if, for example, I can't parry because he has unblockable and indestructible buffs like the current GC meta. I can't use Tigra against Onslaught if, like in a BG meta or two ago, I can't reduce the defender's ability accuracy.
You're looking at defenders in a vacuum as if their abilities are the only factors in the analysis. There's so much more in game, both intended (meta nodes, tactics) and not (lag spikes, AI shenanigans) to account for too. It moves the needle from "this is hard, but beatable and fun" to "this sucks and I hate playing because there's no way to win."
Separately, having defenders turn off masteries is just lazy design. It's one thing if one champ can do it in very limited circumstances (e.g. Heimdall on his L2, and only when he has access to buffs). It even makes sense for some champs, like Photon, to turn off certain masteries when their abilities call for it. I don't like that ability and it's annoying, but it's justified because of the trade-off of an opponent constantly healing from all the non-damaging debuffs. But you're reaching a point where it's just a basic part of every new champ's kit. It becomes "you paid for these abilities with units, lol now you can't use them." That's incredible frustrating. Be more creative than that. Do better.
I disagree about the willpower part, in BG it means that if you want to use them as a defender you have to invest in despair, and in other content, they can add a node specifically to turn off healing if that's what they want, it shouldn't be a blanket thing. Or add in something else, like how Gorr disables his own willpower and gets viscious buffs, make the defender give you something back in exchange. Preferably something that makes them a little easier to fight, like for Dust, reduce the duration of her sandstorm by a certain percentage for each point in willpower. Or they can just be lazy and give a fury passive for each rank or something.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
If im not mistaken, its mainly DLL with the broken defender champs. Also I actually do like seeing defender champs, but what concerns me is the fact the rebalance period is months out. With such a long time out, if the champ does end up being nerfed, i feel rank down tickets would be suitable. I haven’t invested in Bullseye because of this yet.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
Separately, having defenders turn off masteries is just lazy design. It's one thing if one champ can do it in very limited circumstances (e.g. Heimdall on his L2, and only when he has access to buffs). It even makes sense for some champs, like Photon, to turn off certain masteries when their abilities call for it. I don't like that ability and it's annoying, but it's justified because of the trade-off of an opponent constantly healing from all the non-damaging debuffs. But you're reaching a point where it's just a basic part of every new champ's kit. It becomes "you paid for these abilities with units, lol now you can't use them." That's incredible frustrating. Be more creative than that. Do better.
I''m interested about this, and just wondered if you could expand a bit - i don't mean any of this in a mean spirited "gotcha" way, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong for not liking masteries turned off as it's your opinion. I think it's just an interesting conversation.
So you say that it's one thing if it's in limited circumstances or if their abilities call for it (justified because of the trade off of an opponent healing from non-damaging debuffs) then it's ok.
If we take a look at recent champions (from Photon, as it's the first example given)
Photon - dex removed in limited circumstances (can counter by preventing pure light through debuff or AAR control, or by waiting out pure light). Willpower removed because if she didn't you would literally just die from reversing your willpower healing, so it's actually a positive here. It stopped her from becoming like warlock where you don't want to have willpower on for it
Vox, Glad, Morb, Wolf, Maestro, Chee, kushala all don't mess with masteries
Onslaught - abilities call for it due to healing from non-damaging debuffs, and you can avoid it by not parrying
Bullseye, White Tiger, ironheart don't mess with masteries
Dust - abilities call for it due to healing from non-damaging debuffs
Serpent - dex removed in limited circumstances, only while true focus buff is active (which can be removed by stagger or neutralise or buff immunity etc) which is almost identical to heimdall, a champ you called out as being ok. I guess the slight difference is that serpent has it on both specials, but is that enough of a difference for you that it crosses the line?
So I'm not seeing where the lazy design is, because each example is one that fits under a description you said you understood. Or do you mean that it's having 4 out of 14 recent champs of messing with different masteries?
I can understand that we don't want literally every new champ to stop us being able to dex, or use willpower. But I personally don't think masteries should be off limits as something to challenge us in game. It's just another lever to pull to add challenge to a new champion, and if the community says "no you aren't allowed to use it", and Kabam back off, then every champion named above would just have other ways of being difficult to fight. I don't understand why it's lazy design to use different ways of adding challenge - because every one of these *do* add challenge in different ways.
Not to mention, if Dust could be consistently healed up against the entire fight, i guarantee her defensive threat would be increased in other areas, maybe more damage from sandstorm to counteract the healing that champions have, and then willpower becomes a necessity to fight her because if you don't then you're taking too much damage, and suddenly robots or willpower immune champs like Gorr are at a disadvantage.
As for the "you paid for this ability with units now you can't use them", can the same be said for stun immune nodes stopping parry, or heal block stopping willpower, or nodes/ability that reduce the ability accuracy for the parry mastery (like Adam Warlock). I feel like none of these reasons really get to the heart of why some people hate the idea of messing with dex/willpower. Does Iron Man make mystic dispersion a less useful mastery because he power locks when his buffs expire, or do buff immune champions have the same relationship with mystic champions? It's all just an extra lever to pull in complexity of matchups in the game. There are plenty of places that remove the benefits of plenty of masteries. Do ~1% of champions turning off willpower really do anything more than a drop in the ocean of taking away willpower's return on investment?
Where i will likely agree with you more, is that I do think we are on the edge of where too many champions in a short amount of time are messing with masteries. Because like any ability or mechanic to add challenge to a defender, too many of the same sorts of levers can be repetitive. In the same way that if every defender had unstoppable it would be dull. We've had 3 that can shut down willpower, and 2 that shut off dex (photon counting for both - though in her case this actually helps the player). I wouldn't really want to see any more in the immediate future. But i do think it is a way that defenders can become more interesting.
Victory track meta is nothing, Kabam can easily make Storm & Kitty useless, then what you are going to do?
Just use your relic when he activates his evade and push him to sp2. If you're using someone like Venom or Archangel, he will be dead very soon after that.
Doesn't Bullseye's awakened ability at sig 200 shut down AA? I thought it did.
I've seen people kill my bullseye in 28 seconds with AA.
Is it happening consistently though? Cause it's 50% chance to purify 50% of all debuffs if people are getting lucky more often than not then that's weird.
There are more counters /options to bullseye than you think. You mainly need a bleed immune and you can play around the killer instinct by waiting it out. Yes it stalls the fight in BGs, but he has such a tiny healthpool that the fight ends really fast, and the sig 200 won’t be making much of a difference unless theyre using someone like scorp/ham who aren’t even ideal to begin with
Name all these counters then, if he had that many counters people wouldn't be struggling so much.
Some (many) of the champs I’m about to say are a stretch or champs that nobody has ranked or require weird playstyles to work or any number of other things, but these are all the champions I could think of who could work through a Bullseye fight pretty okay. Totally not saying Bullseye should stay how he is, just providing some thoughts on who could be used outside of the conventional meta options.
If in a BGs setting - Iceman, Bishop, Storm, Storm X, Onslaught, Emma Frost(ish. Bleed immune in diamond and prevents evade in telepath), and White Mags (use prefight on himself) all have direct counters in their kits.
Then you’ve got weirder options who counter what I consider to be the bigger part of Bullseye’s threat, his Killer Instinct - Mole Man, Nick Fury, Night Thrasher (board attacks can’t be evaded), Ghost, Punisher2099 (dance around a little at the start of the fight to get full battery charge, then go after him. He’ll be dead before he gets a bar of power), both tech Visions after a little set up (same idea, power control), Aarkus (easy to maintain coldsnap), Dormammu (yeah, I know, fists of velvet, but he has absolute power control over the fight), Doc Voodoo (power control like Dormammu once he gets his sp2. Not super realistic, I know, but you asked for all of them), and, of course, Archangel.
Finally, only available outside of BGs, there’s every bleed immune #hero or #metal champ in the game w/ the White Mags prefight.
Again, all of this is not to say that Bullseye isn’t overtuned as a defender, just answering your question.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
This explanation would make sense if attackers exist to counter the newest defenders. But even if Bullseye has a counter or two in game, that's not good enough for the restrictive metas you're putting out . I can't always use Storm to beat Bullseye if, for example, I can't parry because he has unblockable and indestructible buffs like the current GC meta. I can't use Tigra against Onslaught if, like in a BG meta or two ago, I can't reduce the defender's ability accuracy.
You're looking at defenders in a vacuum as if their abilities are the only factors in the analysis. There's so much more in game, both intended (meta nodes, tactics) and not (lag spikes, AI shenanigans) to account for too. It moves the needle from "this is hard, but beatable and fun" to "this sucks and I hate playing because there's no way to win."
Separately, having defenders turn off masteries is just lazy design. It's one thing if one champ can do it in very limited circumstances (e.g. Heimdall on his L2, and only when he has access to buffs). It even makes sense for some champs, like Photon, to turn off certain masteries when their abilities call for it. I don't like that ability and it's annoying, but it's justified because of the trade-off of an opponent constantly healing from all the non-damaging debuffs. But you're reaching a point where it's just a basic part of every new champ's kit. It becomes "you paid for these abilities with units, lol now you can't use them." That's incredible frustrating. Be more creative than that. Do better.
You're a few years too late on that one. There are Champs that stop Stun from working through Parry, and punish that Mastery. There are Nodes that punish using Dex. If it's in the game, it's going to be challenged.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
Separately, having defenders turn off masteries is just lazy design. It's one thing if one champ can do it in very limited circumstances (e.g. Heimdall on his L2, and only when he has access to buffs). It even makes sense for some champs, like Photon, to turn off certain masteries when their abilities call for it. I don't like that ability and it's annoying, but it's justified because of the trade-off of an opponent constantly healing from all the non-damaging debuffs. But you're reaching a point where it's just a basic part of every new champ's kit. It becomes "you paid for these abilities with units, lol now you can't use them." That's incredible frustrating. Be more creative than that. Do better.
I''m interested about this, and just wondered if you could expand a bit - i don't mean any of this in a mean spirited "gotcha" way, and I don't think you're necessarily wrong for not liking masteries turned off as it's your opinion. I think it's just an interesting conversation.
So you say that it's one thing if it's in limited circumstances or if their abilities call for it (justified because of the trade off of an opponent healing from non-damaging debuffs) then it's ok.
If we take a look at recent champions (from Photon, as it's the first example given)
Photon - dex removed in limited circumstances (can counter by preventing pure light through debuff or AAR control, or by waiting out pure light). Willpower removed because if she didn't you would literally just die from reversing your willpower healing, so it's actually a positive here. It stopped her from becoming like warlock where you don't want to have willpower on for it
Vox, Glad, Morb, Wolf, Maestro, Chee, kushala all don't mess with masteries
Onslaught - abilities call for it due to healing from non-damaging debuffs, and you can avoid it by not parrying
Bullseye, White Tiger, ironheart don't mess with masteries
Dust - abilities call for it due to healing from non-damaging debuffs
Serpent - dex removed in limited circumstances, only while true focus buff is active (which can be removed by stagger or neutralise or buff immunity etc) which is almost identical to heimdall, a champ you called out as being ok. I guess the slight difference is that serpent has it on both specials, but is that enough of a difference for you that it crosses the line?
So I'm not seeing where the lazy design is, because each example is one that fits under a description you said you understood. Or do you mean that it's having 4 out of 14 recent champs of messing with different masteries?
I can understand that we don't want literally every new champ to stop us being able to dex, or use willpower. But I personally don't think masteries should be off limits as something to challenge us in game. It's just another lever to pull to add challenge to a new champion, and if the community says "no you aren't allowed to use it", and Kabam back off, then every champion named above would just have other ways of being difficult to fight. I don't understand why it's lazy design to use different ways of adding challenge - because every one of these *do* add challenge in different ways.
Not to mention, if Dust could be consistently healed up against the entire fight, i guarantee her defensive threat would be increased in other areas, maybe more damage from sandstorm to counteract the healing that champions have, and then willpower becomes a necessity to fight her because if you don't then you're taking too much damage, and suddenly robots or willpower immune champs like Gorr are at a disadvantage.
As for the "you paid for this ability with units now you can't use them", can the same be said for stun immune nodes stopping parry, or heal block stopping willpower, or nodes/ability that reduce the ability accuracy for the parry mastery (like Adam Warlock). I feel like none of these reasons really get to the heart of why some people hate the idea of messing with dex/willpower. Does Iron Man make mystic dispersion a less useful mastery because he power locks when his buffs expire, or do buff immune champions have the same relationship with mystic champions? It's all just an extra lever to pull in complexity of matchups in the game. There are plenty of places that remove the benefits of plenty of masteries. Do ~1% of champions turning off willpower really do anything more than a drop in the ocean of taking away willpower's return on investment?
Where i will likely agree with you more, is that I do think we are on the edge of where too many champions in a short amount of time are messing with masteries. Because like any ability or mechanic to add challenge to a defender, too many of the same sorts of levers can be repetitive. In the same way that if every defender had unstoppable it would be dull. We've had 3 that can shut down willpower, and 2 that shut off dex (photon counting for both - though in her case this actually helps the player). I wouldn't really want to see any more in the immediate future. But i do think it is a way that defenders can become more interesting.
The part about messing with masteries that isn't brought up much is how it impacts the recoil masteries.
By having them, you sign up for a trade-off. You gain great attack increase, but also incur two debuffs, constant damage, and penalties for specials. However, in most cases it's completely fine because of things like willpower. Remove that, and now on top of having to deal with an annoying defender, I have to have extra immunities as well or I may die even if I fight perfectly.
If switching masteries were easier and less costly, I wouldn't be as bothered. But for those who don't spend but want to have enough units for things like Fourth of July, Cyber, Banquet, Necropolis, etc, arena is basically required. Arena grinding without recoil masteries is absolutely terrible, and constantly switching defeats the point
Victory track meta is nothing, Kabam can easily make Storm & Kitty useless, then what you are going to do?
Just use your relic when he activates his evade and push him to sp2. If you're using someone like Venom or Archangel, he will be dead very soon after that.
Doesn't Bullseye's awakened ability at sig 200 shut down AA? I thought it did.
I've seen people kill my bullseye in 28 seconds with AA.
Is it happening consistently though? Cause it's 50% chance to purify 50% of all debuffs if people are getting lucky more often than not then that's weird.
There are more counters /options to bullseye than you think. You mainly need a bleed immune and you can play around the killer instinct by waiting it out. Yes it stalls the fight in BGs, but he has such a tiny healthpool that the fight ends really fast, and the sig 200 won’t be making much of a difference unless theyre using someone like scorp/ham who aren’t even ideal to begin with
Name all these counters then, if he had that many counters people wouldn't be struggling so much.
Some (many) of the champs I’m about to say are a stretch or champs that nobody has ranked or require weird playstyles to work or any number of other things, but these are all the champions I could think of who could work through a Bullseye fight pretty okay. Totally not saying Bullseye should stay how he is, just providing some thoughts on who could be used outside of the conventional meta options.
If in a BGs setting - Iceman, Bishop, Storm, Storm X, Onslaught, Emma Frost(ish. Bleed immune in diamond and prevents evade in telepath), and White Mags (use prefight on himself) all have direct counters in their kits.
To add to this, in BGs I've also found Kushala (bleed immune and regens block damage), CGR (bleed immune, high block prof and nukes fast enough to not deal with many specials), Domino (parry a ton to build power with her ability on taking 0 damage, no bleed because well timed block, combo into sp2), Kate Bishop (more of a quick, but take damage option) to work really well for him. And I think that Warlock (power control so he never throws specials and bleed immune) and Gambit (bleed resistant, and nuke) could both work awesome too.
Comments
Onslaught - his crush won't activate if opponent has armor up buff.
Bullseye - killer instinct immediately go off after special launch + opponent can't take bleed damage if they parry the first hit of special + defensive bullseye have high chance to throw a special attack.
Serpent ain't that bad, dust is more bad imo.
For dust - She can't inflict sand if she is inflicted with cowardice effect.
Photon is not hard, if you know how to intercept and dex, and of course got some tactical knowledge.
We had them before, Korg, KM, Bishop, Domino, and even the like of Attuma, Nick etc.
It is not a problem, if they come once in a while, give players a chance to chase them, while also learn how to counter then, and even getting hard counter for.
The problem I find right now it the number of OP Defenders being released back to back recently, this something even Vega said. So far we got:-
Photon, Maestro, Onslaught, Bullseye, Dust and now Serpent (and we are only in beginning of March), yes all of these champs have some kind if counter, but not many and all still requirer high skill level.
On top of that, the option to purchase brand new 6* champs right away. We already got 6* Serpent full ranked up in BG.
If this trend keep going, it not long before big account players can try stack up 30 OP Def, ban 3 best Attackers, and just chill with a guaranteed wins their way to GC, forget about skill.
Overall it feel like new approaches from Kabam focussing mainly on "endplayer" content, impossible Nodea and OP Def really creating massive imbalance to the game and drain all the fun out most game modes.
You won't be able to win against someone like Diablo if the game decides that it will not let you get load into the fight
You can get stuck on loading screen and lose a winning match
And it's not like you can avoid BGs because you need to complete VT to get the runestones
I agree photon is less annoying than bullseye and onslaught, but you're picture does not support this at all.
We are aware that we've been going a little hard on the 5/5 Defenders lately and do plan to tone it down in the future. Unfortunately, we had some catching up to do with the Attackers we've released over the years without any Defenders to match, especially in certain classes.
Defenders are an important addition to the game. It may seem "out of touch" with what the average player wants, but ask any Game Dev and they will tell you, more often than not what the player wants and what they/the game needs is usually wildly different.
Internally and looking forward, over the last month or so we've already adjusted some of our plans for a number of upcoming Champions so that they weren't as strong on Defense. This isn't to say there won't be any 5/5 Defenders coming your way in the future, but you can expect fewer than what you've seen in the last few months.
Passive: As the true master of the contest, Taskmaster refuses to recognize the masteries of others, which are removed when in combat with him. Additionally, because Taskmaster can expect the opponent's moves, including dexing, blocking, and intercepting, all of these abilities are removed.
But, I just made it to plat2 tho…took down Photon with Kingpin in the 3 match 🥵👻
R4 Kingpin vs R5 ascended Photon, R5 ascended Herc vs 7R1 Shocker…
«I’m fast as f… boy, i’m fast as f…» 🤭
So you say that it's one thing if it's in limited circumstances or if their abilities call for it (justified because of the trade off of an opponent healing from non-damaging debuffs) then it's ok.
If we take a look at recent champions (from Photon, as it's the first example given)
Photon - dex removed in limited circumstances (can counter by preventing pure light through debuff or AAR control, or by waiting out pure light). Willpower removed because if she didn't you would literally just die from reversing your willpower healing, so it's actually a positive here. It stopped her from becoming like warlock where you don't want to have willpower on for it
Vox, Glad, Morb, Wolf, Maestro, Chee, kushala all don't mess with masteries
Onslaught - abilities call for it due to healing from non-damaging debuffs, and you can avoid it by not parrying
Bullseye, White Tiger, ironheart don't mess with masteries
Dust - abilities call for it due to healing from non-damaging debuffs
Serpent - dex removed in limited circumstances, only while true focus buff is active (which can be removed by stagger or neutralise or buff immunity etc) which is almost identical to heimdall, a champ you called out as being ok. I guess the slight difference is that serpent has it on both specials, but is that enough of a difference for you that it crosses the line?
So I'm not seeing where the lazy design is, because each example is one that fits under a description you said you understood. Or do you mean that it's having 4 out of 14 recent champs of messing with different masteries?
I can understand that we don't want literally every new champ to stop us being able to dex, or use willpower. But I personally don't think masteries should be off limits as something to challenge us in game. It's just another lever to pull to add challenge to a new champion, and if the community says "no you aren't allowed to use it", and Kabam back off, then every champion named above would just have other ways of being difficult to fight. I don't understand why it's lazy design to use different ways of adding challenge - because every one of these *do* add challenge in different ways.
Not to mention, if Dust could be consistently healed up against the entire fight, i guarantee her defensive threat would be increased in other areas, maybe more damage from sandstorm to counteract the healing that champions have, and then willpower becomes a necessity to fight her because if you don't then you're taking too much damage, and suddenly robots or willpower immune champs like Gorr are at a disadvantage.
As for the "you paid for this ability with units now you can't use them", can the same be said for stun immune nodes stopping parry, or heal block stopping willpower, or nodes/ability that reduce the ability accuracy for the parry mastery (like Adam Warlock). I feel like none of these reasons really get to the heart of why some people hate the idea of messing with dex/willpower. Does Iron Man make mystic dispersion a less useful mastery because he power locks when his buffs expire, or do buff immune champions have the same relationship with mystic champions? It's all just an extra lever to pull in complexity of matchups in the game. There are plenty of places that remove the benefits of plenty of masteries. Do ~1% of champions turning off willpower really do anything more than a drop in the ocean of taking away willpower's return on investment?
Where i will likely agree with you more, is that I do think we are on the edge of where too many champions in a short amount of time are messing with masteries. Because like any ability or mechanic to add challenge to a defender, too many of the same sorts of levers can be repetitive. In the same way that if every defender had unstoppable it would be dull. We've had 3 that can shut down willpower, and 2 that shut off dex (photon counting for both - though in her case this actually helps the player). I wouldn't really want to see any more in the immediate future. But i do think it is a way that defenders can become more interesting.
If in a BGs setting - Iceman, Bishop, Storm, Storm X, Onslaught, Emma Frost(ish. Bleed immune in diamond and prevents evade in telepath), and White Mags (use prefight on himself) all have direct counters in their kits.
Then you’ve got weirder options who counter what I consider to be the bigger part of Bullseye’s threat, his Killer Instinct - Mole Man, Nick Fury, Night Thrasher (board attacks can’t be evaded), Ghost, Punisher2099 (dance around a little at the start of the fight to get full battery charge, then go after him. He’ll be dead before he gets a bar of power), both tech Visions after a little set up (same idea, power control), Aarkus (easy to maintain coldsnap), Dormammu (yeah, I know, fists of velvet, but he has absolute power control over the fight), Doc Voodoo (power control like Dormammu once he gets his sp2. Not super realistic, I know, but you asked for all of them), and, of course, Archangel.
Finally, only available outside of BGs, there’s every bleed immune #hero or #metal champ in the game w/ the White Mags prefight.
Again, all of this is not to say that Bullseye isn’t overtuned as a defender, just answering your question.
By having them, you sign up for a trade-off. You gain great attack increase, but also incur two debuffs, constant damage, and penalties for specials. However, in most cases it's completely fine because of things like willpower. Remove that, and now on top of having to deal with an annoying defender, I have to have extra immunities as well or I may die even if I fight perfectly.
If switching masteries were easier and less costly, I wouldn't be as bothered. But for those who don't spend but want to have enough units for things like Fourth of July, Cyber, Banquet, Necropolis, etc, arena is basically required. Arena grinding without recoil masteries is absolutely terrible, and constantly switching defeats the point