Maybe i missed it but how often does this crystal get "refreshed" ? like how often do the 18 champs get changed?
There will be a New Crystal every 3 Months. This Crystal will feature the 6 newest Champions, and another pool of 18 Champions as the Base Pool.
So another pool. This means none of the 18 in the first pool will be in the 2nd pool?
That is correct. If a Champion is in this Crystal, they will not be in the Crystal that comes next, but they MAY come back in the Crystal following that. The only guarantee is that they won't be in 2 of these Crystals back to back.
can you confirm this please with the team? i don't want to get excited too soon
if one of the old champ is in the "feature crystal" pool, for example AntMan, he will temporary be removed from the "basic crystal" pool? meaning 0% chance to pull him as basic from a 10k crystal?
So the increased chance of obtaining Blade in his featured Crystal will go down. Boy that sucks! Who wants Taskmaster? This change is a direct response to people wanting Blade, and not going for Sentry and other new champs! Blade is too good! Please don't nerf Blade!!!!
Nope! No change to the Blade Featured Hero Crystal. We made an exception for Blade because we know how many of you were saving Shards for him.
How about Medusa and Memphisto reruns? Are they coming back in reruns or they will be cancelled?
Just talked to the team, and they are comfortable with sharing the list of Champions we plan to include in the first Featured Champion Crystal. It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.
I personally do not think changing the featured crystals to this system will help any serious or end game players progress any faster. The point of the featured crystal was to spend the extra 5k shards in hopes of getting that SPECIFIC featured champion. Yes it was always a gamble with risks of getting an IP or colossus but it gave us roughly 20-25% chance to get the champion that we the players feel would make a huge impact or change in our accounts. Now with this change you guys are making it is no longer, what we guessed, to be around 20-25% chance but about a 4.2% chance at getting the champ.
Granted the "sub-featured" champions you're putting into this new system are decent compared to the rest of the 18 basic champions but IMO none of those 18 are amazing anyways (except for Doc Oc)! I feel the reason why your team feels that those champions selected were "selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars" is because of the horrible RNG luck to begin with. It seems like every time someone opens up a basic/featured 5* crystal they complaining because it ends up being a useless or meme champion and they are forced to rank them up to use the resources that are about to expire because they have no one else better to use them on. My last 8 basic 5* pulls have been champions I would not even rank up past R1 because of their uselessness in AQ/AW or questing in general.
I think a more effective way to implement a change to the 5* featured crystals is to:
1. keep it featured to that specific champion and keep the "increased" chance at obtaining that champion (~20%)
2. introduce the 5 new champions with a slightly reduced chance with obtaining (~2% per new champ)
3. reduce the new basic pool to 15 champions (~4.67% per basic champ)
I think this will still get the desired results on your end while keeping the player base happy @Kabam Miike
I find it hard to believe what you are saying, but tend not to go against you. However, in the last year and a half of AW I can say without question my Alliance has faced off against these champs (take away diversity) maybe 20 times. And the number may be lower for seeing them on attack. You are a numbers guys, and I appreciate that. But this list is based on so low rated players and quests that they would be hard pressed to save the extra 5k in shards.
I think that what the very top tier players are doing is more skewed from everyone else than it is that everyone except the very bottom is doing something different.
How will those 18 champions be chosed? Will you choose, according to y'all standard, few *bad* pull, like a lottery ticket where it is a *better chance next time*. Because let's be honest, you can't really put in that crystal the top 18 you can think of everytime. But you guys can decide to put a few of those *bad* champs in it. Or along with that new crystal, are you guys planning to try to balance the tier list overall?
We are using empirical data based on Champion performance in Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars to decide which Champions will be added to the Crystal. This means that while Player perception of the Champions may not always align, we are trying to avoid poor performing Champions in these Crystals.
He didn't say Kabam was going to put the top champs in the crystal, he said they were going to curate the eighteen to avoid putting in the poorest performing champions. I'm not sure why the conversation shifted to how Kabam completely failed to understand which champs are the best, when they never said they intended to put the absolute best in there. They are probably trying to put in a variety of different "not-worst" in there, because they have to pick a different list every three months. I see a few champs known mostly for defense, some known more for attack, some might even be there for prestige.
@Kabam Miike even said they were not top champs, just that players were effective with them. As in the opposite of ineffective with them. I'm going to be curious to see who *doesn't* show up after a year. And I wonder if this data also went towards that beta test we're probably not supposed to talk about (I didn't get the beta offer, so I'm free to mention not talking about it).
I think saving about 120k shards might be a good way to get what you need. What do you guys think? Also 4 percent each for 6 champs 24 percent chance to get a old featured sounds alright. And then the other 76 percent for the 18 basics.
@Grimmbear
(I get you in fact if I keep saying how much we are against it i will be gone)
Wouldn't it make better sense to have a single champ 5* crystal.. Since we work really hard for them?? I mean how much more interesting what that be in comparison to what you just layed out.. Help us by giving us more control on our own account.. Unless helping us was never intended in the first place!?!
Tell us the plan for the 5* arena so we at least have some control over what champs we want to have in our roster. Also, please tell us the plan for 6*s.
The real question is, are the odds in the basic equal? Or will they be? In its current state they are not equal, that is why so many people consistently pull lower tiered heros from the basics over and over again. Please let us know.
It is equal, and always has been. You have exactly the same chance of pulling any Champion for a Basic Crystal as anyone else, and every Champ has an equal chance of dropping as each other.
I know you may say that we have an equal chance of pulling every champ but it seems like the "trash" champions are more likely to drop. Yesterday 2 of my alliance members pulled a 5* spider-gwen ON THE SAME DAY, both from basic crystals. Please explain to me how the chances are equal when the only 5* crystals opened that day both yielded spider-gwens? @Kabam Miike
Would you at least increase the “chance” to get a 5* featured hero on the Grand master featured hero crystal (3*-5*) or will they be still a money grab and an online casino for which you are being forced to reveal the dropping odds?
Too bad Apple didn't start requiring transparency in communications, maybe the announcement would have looked more something more like...
Due to Apple's new transparency mandate we're changing the feature crystal drop rate (for the champ you were hoping to get) to the worst of our old manipulated drop rates, for everyone, no matter how much you spend.
Let it be known to all app stores that we will respond to any attempt to influence our business to the benefit of their customers in a way that will continue to make our revenue a priority far above all others.
Forget about apple already, you cannot buy 5 star crystals with money. You can buy units and use them for crystals, but I can see the legal loophole.
Nope. Apple mandated transparency, then Kabam changed the system and confirmed feature crystal drop rates for the first time in history. No chance that's a coincidence.
Kabam has said nothing in this thread they haven't said before many times.
They have never given a drop rate. Here for the first time ever we have been provided a drop rate. Unprecedented and not a coincidence.
This is absolutely and unambiguously objectively false. They've always said that the odds of pulling any particular champion from the basic crystal were identical, that the odds of pulling any particular champion from the basic pool from the featured crystal is identical, and that in general the odds of pulling any particular champion of the same type from a crystal is identical. They are saying the exact same thing here: the odds of pulling any particular champion from the new featured crystal is identical. Because the number of champions in the new crystal is fixed at 24, that means the odds are approximately 4.2%. They can't quote a number like that in most other crystals because the number of champions is different at different times, but that number is zero additional information for anyone capable of doing basic elementary school math.
Just a more simple of explanation of what the new crystal is. I do not understand fully how it is better than the old featured crystal
It isn’t better, it is more of a money-making change because if u want a new champ as a 5* u now have to spend units on featured grand master crystals which are 300 units each.
Just talked to the team, and they are comfortable with sharing the list of Champions we plan to include in the first Featured Champion Crystal. It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.
I didn't say most used, but they are among the most effective. Cyclops actually scores very high on this list. There is a smaller group of players that use him, but they use him VERY effectively.
Oh I get it, the Kabam team uses these champs and you guys really think ur good at using these champs. Show me any alliance in the higher tiers running these champs for aq or aw. out of mutant, only cable has utility but not even the best offensive mutant. out of skill it is fine except thor ragnorak, he's more of a defender. in science, you can't even honestly say ant man and sentry deserve to be there over the other science defenders like the spidermans or hulk or quake for offense. in mystic don't you dare tell me people are effectively using any of those on offense, or loki and jane foster for defense. in cosmic, phoenix and ronan are not very good on offense or defense compared to angela drax hyperion. and for tech civil warrior is not an attacker and not even a good defender, punisher 2099 is barely a good defender, and nebula and doc ock are fine. for more than half of this list you just failed completely.
I didn't say to put all 24 Troll, my argument was where are some of thr better champs!
Please be a bit more respectful. I am a real-life human being.
My point is you have to put more attention to the 6 new champions. So the rest are there to make sure the chances are balanced. So the other 18 champions, shouldn't be more exciting to get than the "featured" ones. In that way, they make sure you keep trying to get the champions.
Now given that only 6 of 24 are new, I can understand the disagreement with the chances.
I think people are overreacting to these news. How many players actually buy the featured crystal anyway?
Maybe i missed it but how often does this crystal get "refreshed" ? like how often do the 18 champs get changed?
There will be a New Crystal every 3 Months. This Crystal will feature the 6 newest Champions, and another pool of 18 Champions as the Base Pool.
So another pool. This means none of the 18 in the first pool will be in the 2nd pool?
That is correct. If a Champion is in this Crystal, they will not be in the Crystal that comes next, but they MAY come back in the Crystal following that. The only guarantee is that they won't be in 2 of these Crystals back to back.
can you confirm this please with the team? i don't want to get excited too soon
if one of the old champ is in the "feature crystal" pool, for example AntMan, he will temporary be removed from the "basic crystal" pool? meaning 0% chance to pull him as basic from a 10k crystal?
That's not what he said. The list of 18 in the first featured crystal will not be in the 2nd featured crystal. All will still be in the basic crystal.
Just talked to the team, and they are comfortable with sharing the list of Champions we plan to include in the first Featured Champion Crystal. It's important to note that this list could still potentially change a little before the release, but the selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars.
You FORCED DEFENDER DIVERSITY ON US! If I look at my alliance and the opposing alliance 3 chosen champs for aw offense I only see 3 champs from your list that are REALISTICALLY used on offense. For aq I only see 6 more that MAY be used from that list.
Here’s what I see
Aw offense:
AA
Iceman
Rogue
Vision (both)
Star lord
Spider-Man stark enhanced
Gwenpool
Hawkeye
Crossbones
Black widow
Blade
Quake
Cap ww2
Hulk (maybe)
Magik
Scarlet witch
Dr voodoo
Ghost rider (for blade)
Cosmics are a liability with MD
If you see others used it’s likely the player has not pulled one of the above champs (I’m sure I missed a couple) because your drop rates on god tier champs are seemingly lower.
In response to you actual list, we (the vast majority) don’t really want:
Cyclops
Agent venom
Sentry (he’s not balanced)
Ant man (PLEASE NOOOOO!!!)
Thor Jane foster
Loki
Juggernaut
Ronan
Venompool
Punisher 2099
Civil warrior
Instead of looking at the “data,” speak to end game players/alliances on what champs are desired. I know you won’t because you make many decisions without communicating with the player base (not that you have to) but if you want to make more money, make this game and that in the game more desirable and in working order. The better you make this game in the eyes of players the more we will spend because we have some faith in Kabam.
Reason being cyclops, ronan, juggs and antman is one of the most effective champs use in aq and aw is because they exist years ago before all the god tier comes in, all the god champs is rare and thats why they are not the most effective champs in aq and aw as they meant to be rare, all the meh tiers we get from the garbage bin had suddenly became the most effective champs, i wonder they gather the data since the game start, well, if u get the data since the game start (example like cyclops) compare to a green goblin, ofcuz the data will show more ppl use him on aw def instead of GG...its juz **** and bs explanation they gave...
I appreciate why you are doing this, and while having Modok on my defense would be nice, none of the 18 you put in there would be of any help to my account in any way. Maybe the next crystal you put out will be of use, but none of these are solid LoL(with the exception of Storm) options, or particularly good in quests, AQ, or AW offense. A few good AW defenders though, I guess, so maybe that is strictly where you pulled your data?
if you are ruining the odds of pulling a feature cant you at LEAST have the 18 basic champs out of the basic pool for that 3 months? giving people a chance at pulling somone worth wasting cats on
I mean this in the worst of ways. Your team is deluded. In what universe are those champs even semi useful? Tier 20? There is NOBODY in any decent ally using 90% of those champs anywhere but defense (and only a couple for that) let alone **** attack or aq. They are NOT top options. Not a single one is god tier. Pathetic. Open your eyes.
If you are not a fan of the Champions in the Crystal, you can always wait until the Featured Champion you like is added to the Basic Pool, like the 3-Star and 4-Star Champions.
Also, nobody said they are the top Champions, and while player perception of these Champions may differ, these Champions are ones that people use to great success.
So someone sticks Cyclops on an Unblockable SP1 node in AW and picks up a few kills and this suddenly means that he is an ‘effective’ champ?
Actually, yes.
Miike, take this back to the ‘team’. Have them come onto the forum for for an hour at some point and answer questions directly.
I personally believe in better communications between players and game developers and I've fought for that myself in the past. But yeah, that's not going to happen.
It might make him effective in War on that node, but it does NOT make him an effective champ for people trying to progress through end content and the like of LOL.
You're correct, and as soon as you find a quote from a Kabam employee that says the intent of the new featured crystal is to pack it with champions players can use to complete LoL, I will be right there with you complaining that the crystal fails to meet its objective.
But since Kabam has only stated that the intent of the crystal is to contain the most recent six featured champions plus a curated set of eighteen other 5* champions that try to avoid the least effective champions when played by the players, Cyclops having a reasonable use as a placed defender appears to explicitly do exactly what they said the crystal will do.
if you are ruining the odds of pulling a feature cant you at LEAST have the 18 basic champs out of the basic pool for that 3 months? giving people a chance at pulling somone worth wasting cats on
I do not want Nebula or Agent Venom removed from the basic crystal!
I think a better statistic would be how many players actually buy the featured crystal against people that only buys the basic one. I always felt like the cost of that crystal and the chances to get a spider-gwen were reasons enough to not buy it.
Honestly, I think its better to just make featured 5star crystals not available anymore than release this parody of a crystal. The initial champions are all disappointing to say the least. The only one I would be excited about pulling is maybe void... About a week ago i tried for a 5star sentry. Did not get him, but landed on a ghost rider. I was EXCITED. I went for someone who i thought could be interesting and pulled a guaranteed to be aweasome champion. Right now you are eliminating chances for someone to pul whoever great champion they could have pulled from these crystals all those months. Someone goes for the featured crystal and gets an ant man (who btw is NEVER used in aq, sorry to say that). It's not that he got ant man but that he did not even have a chance of gatting like a blade or a star spider man who could help him. The extra price is ridiculous for the champions you are offering in this crystal. Basics all the way for me then, too bad I was saving for gladiator hulk...
Regardless, saving 90k shards for a less than 1/4 chance to get the champ you want (when you really only want one from the featured crystal) is going to lead most people to miss and be unhappy.
The vast overwhelming majority of public complaints about the featured 5* crystal on both these forums and the reddit seem to me to be not that the player missed, but that out of all the tries for featured they got nothing but "garbage" champions instead, making the value of the crystal perceived to be worse than just pulling basics.
So if you are focusing on "unhappy players" I think it is far more important to focus not on the chance to "win," but rather on the chance to "lose." This crystal seems to have a lower chance to pull champions most would consider garbage champs repeatedly.
Ultimately nothing we say or do here matters until it effects their bottom line.
All their promises of better transparency and community interaction are hollow empty promises when these plans supposedly in the works for months are forced upon us and ultimately unanimous loathing of them will be wholly ignored until their income suffers and they can patronise us in a few weeks with a compromise that they can sell to us as “we’ve listened to you”.
I mean this in the worst of ways. Your team is deluded. In what universe are those champs even semi useful? Tier 20? There is NOBODY in any decent ally using 90% of those champs anywhere but defense (and only a couple for that) let alone **** attack or aq. They are NOT top options. Not a single one is god tier. Pathetic. Open your eyes.
If you are not a fan of the Champions in the Crystal, you can always wait until the Featured Champion you like is added to the Basic Pool, like the 3-Star and 4-Star Champions.
Also, nobody said they are the top Champions, and while player perception of these Champions may differ, these Champions are ones that people use to great success.
I look at this way... If all the champs were great champs, then what is the gamble... Opening a crystal, any of them, is a gamble.... The gambling aspect of the game is part of the "thrill" and the "agony" of the game. It would be good to know the odds exactly though for all crystals.
Comments
can you confirm this please with the team? i don't want to get excited too soon
if one of the old champ is in the "feature crystal" pool, for example AntMan, he will temporary be removed from the "basic crystal" pool? meaning 0% chance to pull him as basic from a 10k crystal?
How about Medusa and Memphisto reruns? Are they coming back in reruns or they will be cancelled?
Thanks
I personally do not think changing the featured crystals to this system will help any serious or end game players progress any faster. The point of the featured crystal was to spend the extra 5k shards in hopes of getting that SPECIFIC featured champion. Yes it was always a gamble with risks of getting an IP or colossus but it gave us roughly 20-25% chance to get the champion that we the players feel would make a huge impact or change in our accounts. Now with this change you guys are making it is no longer, what we guessed, to be around 20-25% chance but about a 4.2% chance at getting the champ.
Granted the "sub-featured" champions you're putting into this new system are decent compared to the rest of the 18 basic champions but IMO none of those 18 are amazing anyways (except for Doc Oc)! I feel the reason why your team feels that those champions selected were "selected Champions are based on empirical data showing their effectiveness as 5-Star Champions in both Alliance Quests and Alliance Wars" is because of the horrible RNG luck to begin with. It seems like every time someone opens up a basic/featured 5* crystal they complaining because it ends up being a useless or meme champion and they are forced to rank them up to use the resources that are about to expire because they have no one else better to use them on. My last 8 basic 5* pulls have been champions I would not even rank up past R1 because of their uselessness in AQ/AW or questing in general.
I think a more effective way to implement a change to the 5* featured crystals is to:
1. keep it featured to that specific champion and keep the "increased" chance at obtaining that champion (~20%)
2. introduce the 5 new champions with a slightly reduced chance with obtaining (~2% per new champ)
3. reduce the new basic pool to 15 champions (~4.67% per basic champ)
I think this will still get the desired results on your end while keeping the player base happy @Kabam Miike
I think that what the very top tier players are doing is more skewed from everyone else than it is that everyone except the very bottom is doing something different.
@Kabam Miike stated:
He didn't say Kabam was going to put the top champs in the crystal, he said they were going to curate the eighteen to avoid putting in the poorest performing champions. I'm not sure why the conversation shifted to how Kabam completely failed to understand which champs are the best, when they never said they intended to put the absolute best in there. They are probably trying to put in a variety of different "not-worst" in there, because they have to pick a different list every three months. I see a few champs known mostly for defense, some known more for attack, some might even be there for prestige.
@Kabam Miike even said they were not top champs, just that players were effective with them. As in the opposite of ineffective with them. I'm going to be curious to see who *doesn't* show up after a year. And I wonder if this data also went towards that beta test we're probably not supposed to talk about (I didn't get the beta offer, so I'm free to mention not talking about it).
@Grimmbear
(I get you in fact if I keep saying how much we are against it i will be gone)
I know you may say that we have an equal chance of pulling every champ but it seems like the "trash" champions are more likely to drop. Yesterday 2 of my alliance members pulled a 5* spider-gwen ON THE SAME DAY, both from basic crystals. Please explain to me how the chances are equal when the only 5* crystals opened that day both yielded spider-gwens? @Kabam Miike
This is absolutely and unambiguously objectively false. They've always said that the odds of pulling any particular champion from the basic crystal were identical, that the odds of pulling any particular champion from the basic pool from the featured crystal is identical, and that in general the odds of pulling any particular champion of the same type from a crystal is identical. They are saying the exact same thing here: the odds of pulling any particular champion from the new featured crystal is identical. Because the number of champions in the new crystal is fixed at 24, that means the odds are approximately 4.2%. They can't quote a number like that in most other crystals because the number of champions is different at different times, but that number is zero additional information for anyone capable of doing basic elementary school math.
Thanks for this very helpful and constructive post champ!
It isn’t better, it is more of a money-making change because if u want a new champ as a 5* u now have to spend units on featured grand master crystals which are 300 units each.
Oh I get it, the Kabam team uses these champs and you guys really think ur good at using these champs. Show me any alliance in the higher tiers running these champs for aq or aw. out of mutant, only cable has utility but not even the best offensive mutant. out of skill it is fine except thor ragnorak, he's more of a defender. in science, you can't even honestly say ant man and sentry deserve to be there over the other science defenders like the spidermans or hulk or quake for offense. in mystic don't you dare tell me people are effectively using any of those on offense, or loki and jane foster for defense. in cosmic, phoenix and ronan are not very good on offense or defense compared to angela drax hyperion. and for tech civil warrior is not an attacker and not even a good defender, punisher 2099 is barely a good defender, and nebula and doc ock are fine. for more than half of this list you just failed completely.
why are you charging 15K shards for this crystal?? no increased chance and still about 20 **** champs in there.
Please be a bit more respectful. I am a real-life human being.
My point is you have to put more attention to the 6 new champions. So the rest are there to make sure the chances are balanced. So the other 18 champions, shouldn't be more exciting to get than the "featured" ones. In that way, they make sure you keep trying to get the champions.
Now given that only 6 of 24 are new, I can understand the disagreement with the chances.
I think people are overreacting to these news. How many players actually buy the featured crystal anyway?
That's not what he said. The list of 18 in the first featured crystal will not be in the 2nd featured crystal. All will still be in the basic crystal.
Reason being cyclops, ronan, juggs and antman is one of the most effective champs use in aq and aw is because they exist years ago before all the god tier comes in, all the god champs is rare and thats why they are not the most effective champs in aq and aw as they meant to be rare, all the meh tiers we get from the garbage bin had suddenly became the most effective champs, i wonder they gather the data since the game start, well, if u get the data since the game start (example like cyclops) compare to a green goblin, ofcuz the data will show more ppl use him on aw def instead of GG...its juz **** and bs explanation they gave...
You're correct, and as soon as you find a quote from a Kabam employee that says the intent of the new featured crystal is to pack it with champions players can use to complete LoL, I will be right there with you complaining that the crystal fails to meet its objective.
But since Kabam has only stated that the intent of the crystal is to contain the most recent six featured champions plus a curated set of eighteen other 5* champions that try to avoid the least effective champions when played by the players, Cyclops having a reasonable use as a placed defender appears to explicitly do exactly what they said the crystal will do.
I do not want Nebula or Agent Venom removed from the basic crystal!
I think a better statistic would be how many players actually buy the featured crystal against people that only buys the basic one. I always felt like the cost of that crystal and the chances to get a spider-gwen were reasons enough to not buy it.
The vast overwhelming majority of public complaints about the featured 5* crystal on both these forums and the reddit seem to me to be not that the player missed, but that out of all the tries for featured they got nothing but "garbage" champions instead, making the value of the crystal perceived to be worse than just pulling basics.
So if you are focusing on "unhappy players" I think it is far more important to focus not on the chance to "win," but rather on the chance to "lose." This crystal seems to have a lower chance to pull champions most would consider garbage champs repeatedly.
All their promises of better transparency and community interaction are hollow empty promises when these plans supposedly in the works for months are forced upon us and ultimately unanimous loathing of them will be wholly ignored until their income suffers and they can patronise us in a few weeks with a compromise that they can sell to us as “we’ve listened to you”.
I look at this way... If all the champs were great champs, then what is the gamble... Opening a crystal, any of them, is a gamble.... The gambling aspect of the game is part of the "thrill" and the "agony" of the game. It would be good to know the odds exactly though for all crystals.