SS NERF vs Buffet and Masochism

Buffet and Masochism are not bugs. SS was bugged. They're not likely going to reverse a fix.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Buffet and Masochism are not bugs. SS was bugged. They're not likely going to reverse a fix.

How are buffet and masochism not bugged? They're worded the same way stagger is, singular buff/debuff, yet they remove multiple buffs/debuffs that trigger at the same time, which stagger can no longer do.

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Buffet and Masochism are not bugs. SS was bugged. They're not likely going to reverse a fix.

How are buffet and masochism not bugged? They're worded the same way stagger is, singular buff/debuff, yet they remove multiple buffs/debuffs that trigger at the same time, which stagger can no longer do.

We literally had this conversation in another Thread. Which was responded to by a Mod. He was bugged. The Nodes are supposed to function like that. He was not. Quite simple, actually.

ShadPrince

It's hard to say that SS was game-breaking as the boss, because at the time nobody brought in any champs against him that activated buffs, and if you did then you were a bit naïve, so it wouldn't have affected many people.

It is tough with the definitions of stagger vs. buffet and masochism though

So what you're saying is when a non player based ability or node states "next buff" it is suppose to function as if it reads "next BUFFS"? I'm sorry but your argument is not only illogical but ignorant.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

Buffet and Masochism are not bugs. SS was bugged. They're not likely going to reverse a fix.

How are buffet and masochism not bugged? They're worded the same way stagger is, singular buff/debuff, yet they remove multiple buffs/debuffs that trigger at the same time, which stagger can no longer do.

We literally had this conversation in another Thread. Which was responded to by a Mod. He was bugged. The Nodes are supposed to function like that. He was not. Quite simple, actually.

I know we did, and I don't wanna draw this out as long as in the other thread, but they didn't actually confirm that masochism and buffet are supposed to work that way as far as I know. It just makes absolutely no sense to me why those nodes should work any differently than stagger.

Namelez

Even Hood nullifies multiple buffs that activate at the same time with only 1 stagger

Namelez wrote: »

Even Hood nullifies multiple buffs that activate at the same time with only 1 stagger

Haven't tested it out yet myself, but I've seen people saying that even Hood's and Juggernaut's staggers were changed when they changed it on SS, despite saying the change was specific to SS. Again, haven't tested yet, so not entirely sure.

BigDog6219 wrote: »

So what you're saying is when a non player based ability or node states "next buff" it is suppose to function as if it reads "next BUFFS"? I'm sorry but your argument is not only illogical but ignorant.

What I'm saying is he wasn't intended to function that way. Regardless of the wording, he was game-breaking. That's a priority. If Masochism and Buffet threatened the balance of the game, that would be a priority as well. It has nothing to do with what benefits us vs. them.

Sungj

The bug that made him game-breaking was only introduced in the latest patch after his event basically over. Also, the fix to how his stagger worked literally didn't effect the fight unless you were using a champion that gained buffs at the exact same time which are very few and far between and not used often. Go watch seatin's video on the SS fix, he has him as a 5* at rank 4 with tons of gameplay videos and explains why the fix is not that big of a deal

Found the thread with video proof. I have no issue with specifically changing the stagger of SS only if it was indeed gamebreaking, but that's beside the point right now. They said the change was specific to SS and not the stagger of other champs, yet it changes them also. So, either the stagger on champs like Hood are bugged now or masochism/buffet are bugged. Neither case is gamebreaking if you look outside of how SS was, so you can't argue that stagger should be one way and buffet/masochism should be another way. Either stagger, with the exception of SS, is bugged because it's not nullifying multiple buffs that trigger at the same exact time or if they changed their mind about the change being specific to SS and they just want stagger to work that way now, then buffet/masochism are bugged because they do negate multiple buffs/debuffs that trigger at the same exact time. There is no reason for these to work differently.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/106068/hood-stagger-changed#latest

The way something functions, specifically with gaming, is determined by the wording.

Examples from his Spotlight:

Corvus Glaive

The Chthon’s Cunning Nullify will strip away Corvus’s Cruelty and True Damage Buffs right at the beginning of the fight, significantly cutting his damage potential, and taking a chunk out of his health bar right at the beginning of the fight

And

Developer Note: The “Anti-Buff” Blessing. Symbiote Supreme always starts with this Blessing active, so he’ll remove whatever Buffs you have on you right at the start of the fight dealing damage.

Again, Buffs are CLEARLY stated.

There should be consistency between stagger/buffet/masochism and there isn't. If they want there to be an exception for one particular champ because of what he can do with the mechanic, that's up to them, that's not what I'm arguing against right now, but in general, those 3 mechanics should work the same way.

What this is all about is the fact that they changed him. I'm sorry if that upsets people, but it was necessary.

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

What this is all about is the fact that they changed him. I'm sorry if that upsets people, but it was necessary.

That may be the case for others, but I've let that go and I never said it wasn't necessary. I truly am more concerned with the inconsistency right now with stagger on other champs and buffet/masochism. They literally said themselves that the change was specific to SS, but it affected other champs anyways and created this difference in the way stagger works compared to those nodes.

It only became necessary because an ability, not a specific champion ability, was allowing players to defeat this month's event bosses without having to spend a lot of money on resources to do so.

If stagger needed to be fixed because of the wording and how it was functioning than so be it, I completely understand... as long as they fix the other concepts with the exact same wording. This will not happen though because one is a disadvantage to them and the other is in their favor.

Kenny292 wrote: »

GroundedWisdom wrote: »

What this is all about is the fact that they changed him. I'm sorry if that upsets people, but it was necessary.

That may be the case for others, but I've let that go and I never said it wasn't necessary. I truly am more concerned with the inconsistency right now with stagger on other champs and buffet/masochism. They literally said themselves that the change was specific to SS, but it affected other champs anyways and created this difference in the way stagger works compared to those nodes.

Then that would be a separate issue they'll probably have to address. I don't see the resolution being any kind of reversal. Not with the level of priority. Nor do I necessarily think that reversals are are common method of addressing issues. If it's affecting other Champs, that'll likely have to be resolved.

ShadPrince

BigDog6219 wrote: »

The way something functions, specifically with gaming, is determined by the wording.

Examples from his Spotlight:

Corvus Glaive

The Chthon’s Cunning Nullify will strip away Corvus’s Cruelty and True Damage Buffs right at the beginning of the fight, significantly cutting his damage potential, and taking a chunk out of his health bar right at the beginning of the fight

And

Developer Note: The “Anti-Buff” Blessing. Symbiote Supreme always starts with this Blessing active, so he’ll remove whatever Buffs you have on you right at the start of the fight dealing damage.

Again, Buffs are CLEARLY stated.

Is this meant to state that the fix was not a fix, but a nerf? Because this is completely unrelated to the stagger bug that they fixed.

@ShadPrince yeah those are examples on how it isn't necessarily a bug fix but a nerf.

I just don't like people getting screwed over and I believe in transparency and accountability. They made a champion and he's stronger than intended so they feel changes need to be made...I'd respect a statement like that but it needs to be acknowledged that resources, especially awakening gems, were used on this champion because of his abilities. There would be the same expectation if they reduced Stark Spidey's SP2 by 1/2, for example. Probably not the best example but still.

That's the thing. It wasn't a nerf. It was a fix. For that matter, fixes don't warrant Tickets, or anything of the sort. Also, it's probably worth noting that it's not a good idea to take a Champ full tilt within the first week of two of being released. That's not enough time to even get to know a Champ and make an educated decision. Those bugs were caught relatively soon after he was released. Not really a judgment. I get that people Rank how they want and I see what you're saying. Just a side note, really. I always suggest people take the time to get to know Champs before they invest higher Resources into them.
If something needs to be fixed because it's detrimental to the game itself, that's necessary. It also doesn't mean the Resources are wasted if they're used on a Champ that's fixed. Unless the only reason it was Ranked is for Abilities that shouldn't be in the game. In which case, there's not much to say about that. Somewhere along the lines, we would have to take a step back and realize if a Champ is capable of that much, perhaps something is off.

Epsilon3

Wait so Stagger =/= Stagger?

THATS IT PEOPLE BREAK OUT THE PANCAKES ITS TIME TO MAKE GROOT BLEED MAPLE SYRUP!

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ShadPrince

@BigDog6219 I'm not sure if you read what I wrote, or if you saw all of it. The stance changing is still there, it still removes every single buff that is active at the time. It's got nothing to do with the stagger fix. Here, let me pull something else from his description:

Signature Ability: Symbiomancy
The unique combination of Symbiote and mystic arts that power Symbiote Supreme have a disrupting effect on many abilities of the lesser beings inhabiting the Battlerealm.

• Every 12.51 seconds place a Stagger Passive effect on the Opponent, lasting 10 seconds. Stagger will immediately Nullify the next Buff triggered on the Opponent.

Here it says that stagger nullifies the next buff and only the next buff, not multiple buffs. I highly suggest that you properly read the reported fix and the champs abilities so you don't mix it up again.

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DrBruceWayne

It's kinda funny they "fixed" him after the EQ was over/few hours before EQ finished

https://youtu.be/wSGGaQRxWjU

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Demonzfyre

Watch Seatins video and take a deep breath and realize its alright.

Demonzfyre

BigDog6219 wrote: »

@ShadPrince yeah those are examples on how it isn't necessarily a bug fix but a nerf.

I just don't like people getting screwed over and I believe in transparency and accountability. They made a champion and he's stronger than intended so they feel changes need to be made...I'd respect a statement like that but it needs to be acknowledged that resources, especially awakening gems, were used on this champion because of his abilities. There would be the same expectation if they reduced Stark Spidey's SP2 by 1/2, for example. Probably not the best example but still.

He was only truly broken for about 5 hours after 21.0 update. Not the entire time.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

SS was not nerfed.
Buffet and masoquism are supposed to work like they are currently.

All is confirmed by mods responses. None is bug right now