The biggest thing that this new 4* restriction has done is to make me regret arena grinds.



  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 16,458 Guardian
    MMCskippy said:

    Maybe the real game economic that's causing this unrest is rank up resources?

    I think a lot of it is simply due to the fact that some players don't like certain limits placed on their gameplay, and some limits just seem more artificial to them than others. I can understand that: on a visceral level I don't like limits either: its what drives me to overcome them. When they announced uncollected status my first thought was: if I don't get off my butt and drive through the Collector I'm going to miss out on the new stuff. I didn't want to fall behind that curve, so I pushed harder to become uncollected. Of course none of that happens if I just don't care.

    There is one aspect of this that I recognize from my experience with other games, and that's the fact that for some (not all) players, min/maxing is a huge part of the fun of the game, and for a subset of *those* players min/maxing is something that they can "overoptimize" to their own detriment.

    In other words, some min/maxers like the thrill of the chase: they like solving the problem of how to get the most performance out of a certain restricted situation. For them, the Act 6 restrictions are just another situation to min/max, and while they might be opposed to the restrictions on principle, they'll also be completely fine with rolling with the limits because that's what they do. But for some min/maxers the goal is to reap the benefits of min/maxing. You min/max to get the best possible performance, so you can sit back and enjoy that build you made. For them, any change to the situation is in effect invaliding their previous work.

    This second group of people tend, in my experience, to have a much higher chance of burning out of progressional games like MMOs or games like MCOC, because these games are fundamentally built on upsetting the apple cart constantly so the people at the top can't entrench there: they have to keep playing just like everyone else or someone else comes up from behind and knocks them off. This possibility of a new player being able to catch a player that isn't playing as hard as they are, even if they have a multi-year head start, is a necessary requirement to keep attracting new players to a game that's been around for a long time and allows players to build up tremendous arsenals.

    I think if it was easier to rank up champions the problem would be different but would still be here. That's because of what I call game normalization. We like to say that no one should compare themselves to other players because that's unhealthy, and that's true, but it is also true that in a game like this we are all in a general sense being compared to everyone else. Difficulty in this game is based on the average player: if the average player gets better, the game will slowly get more difficult in response. Resource rewards are treated similarly. Average players get average rewards relative to the average of all other players. If we could rank everything up much faster than now, there would still be a big gap between the fastest and slowest players and the game would balance itself around that average rank up rate.

    In other words, the fastest rank up players will always be significantly faster than the average player, and progress gates like Act 6.1's gate will always be higher than what the average player can get over, to specifically challenge the top 10% or 1% or whatever its calibrated for.

    Or to put it really simply, a top tier progress gate in this game will always be something that when it is first introduced the vast majority of players simply can't do. And over time, as the game's reward systems inflate, that progress gate will become easier for more player to jump over, both because they have more time and also because it will take less effort.

    If there's good news for so-called "intermediate" players, it is this: Act 6 will one day be Act 5, and some day after that it will be RoL. Which is to say, when Act 5 came out we had to do it with 5/50s for the most part, and we had to learn from scratch how to deal with Act 5's nodes. It was very difficult for most players, even top players, to complete. Today, we can bring 5/65s into the same content and those nodes are things we've had a ton of practice on. That's because 5* champs are so much easier to get, and rank up resources are also so much easier to get. And RoL has gone from requiring hundreds of potions to complete, to being farmed for potions itself.

    That's going to happen with Act 6.1's gate as well. To get past that gate requires having a good 5*/6* roster, and that means MCOC will continue to slowly ratchet up the ability for players to get those, and rank those up. It won't be instantaneous, but look at how far the game has already come between when 5* champs were first introduced and now.
  • MMCskippyMMCskippy Posts: 352 ★★
    i just want to post again on this thread because I like @DNA3000 's point of view.

    This is a great illustration of someone emotionally reacting to something happening that's out of their control (that's me in this scenario) but not being a jerk when someone tries to get them to see the big picture.

    It's amazing what happens when you're not a jerk... you get to learn!

    Getting to understand someone else's point of view helped me learn something about myself. I am closer to the 2nd type of player and I'm realizing that with games like this, you can't be. I was getting over excited about all of these champs being so accessible in arena because of all of the tools that were going to be in my kit... all the synergies to experiment with and explore content with...

    When I sit back and look at how I realistically play I realize:
    - I now grind arena for units and BCs and once in a while I focus on a 4* champ.
    - I only have enough time in a week/month to finish only the monthly maps that I can finish. (I work through all lower levels of difficulty and at the easy path in Uncollected.)
    - I still have a ton of Act 5 to complete to get to 100% and I only complete a path or two a month with all the other grinding for resources I need to do.
    - I will pay $$$ for any energy refill deal Kabam offers. Every time I see one I buy it.
    - HELLO? Kabam, are you listening?
    - Seriously, if there was an energy refill deal every Sunday when the crystal arenas are up, I'd buy it. $5 for 10 energy refills is my jam... It's a win/win for both of us, Kabam. You get cash, I get to quest more!
    - I'd still be out of energy just with the monthly quests and quests for cats.
    - It will be a while until I even think about ROL because I'm not going to spend my way through it.

    It will realistically be a while until I want to run Act 6 and when this change was announced I felt like I was having my toys taken away just as I learn how to have fun with them as I work through Act 5.

    Perspective helps.

    Did I mention I'd buy the "10 energy refills for $5" offer every week? I did? I'm glad I mentioned it again!
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 16,458 Guardian
    MMCskippy said:

    I am closer to the 2nd type of player and I'm realizing that with games like this, you can't be. I was getting over excited about all of these champs being so accessible in arena because of all of the tools that were going to be in my kit... all the synergies to experiment with and explore content with...

    You can *sort of* be, if you pick the right spot. I'll try to be brief for a change, since I think this isn't hard to get the basic idea of. If you tried to be the #1 player in the game, you'd have to spend huge amounts of time and cash, and if you stopped spending either for even a week, someone else would probably overtake you.

    On the other hand, if you decided to do *nothing* and just log in for the calendar, you'd still progress just from calendar rewards. And of course you'd be spending no cash and almost no time. The "bottom" of the progress curve in this game isn't actually zero (unless you stop logging in altogether).

    For the amount of time and money you want to spend (and for your skill level) there's a natural spot on the progress curve where if you try to maintain that level of advancement relative to the average player, you'll end up right in the sweet spot of the wave, surfing forward with no additional effort than what you want to put in anyway. If you can find it and enjoy it, every part of the game including the parts currently considered to be endgame will eventually come to you, without you having to fight to get to them. Right in that sweet spot, you can be a type 2 player and optimize for that situation, and permanently reap the benefits of the overall situation you find yourself in.
  • CallmelaFleurCallmelaFleur Posts: 214
    I will use my maxed 4*s in the arenas for years to come to stack units and go for featured and soon to be basic 5* champions. They will still have a use.
  • How many 3* champs did you actively use in your act 5 exploration?

    Let’s see..... so with Thor rags on my team I got indestructible at 20% and killed the collector, my only 4/55 uses her 3* black bolt and 3* Karnak 1000000000000x times more than I use my 5* iron patriot. Don’t even get me started on my 3* wasp and hood.......
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 16,458 Guardian

    I will use my maxed 4*s in the arenas for years to come to stack units and go for featured and soon to be basic 5* champions. They will still have a use.

    Years ago I remember replying to someone who was saying that 3* champs were not worth getting in the arena by saying "I will be using my 3* champs to get 4* champs in the arena." It seems simultaneously quaint and prescient to me now.
  • CallmelaFleurCallmelaFleur Posts: 214
    Ultimately, I am trying to collect em all like pokemon.
  • nebneb Posts: 440 ★★★
    If you're having bad 5 star pull luck they already added a solution. All you have to do is dungeons for months and you can have a 10% chance at a usable champ!
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