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Nick Fury Purify Synergy and Masochism

Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 369 ★★★
Let me get this right,

you can fix nick furies synergy to only remove one debuff but you can't fix masochism to only remove one debuff for characters like Blade and Corvus ?



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Comments

  • Basically yup
  • No. One was broken and got fixed, the other isn't broken and is working as intended.

    I suggest you to use the search option next time you create a thread like this one
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 369 ★★★
    Well from what i recall it was stated because the debuffs were applied at the same time there was no way to distinguish which debuff to remove hence why all debuffs get removed/purified when applied at the same time.

    My point was they managed to figure it out for the Nick fury fix so they can do the same for masochism.

    You say it was working as intended, then then can just update the text. Not exactly hard to do to be clear especially since i'm sure loads of new players probably report it as a bug when first encountering it.

    something along the lines of
    "Every 7 seconds the defender purifies all new debuffs when inflicted with a new debuff and heals for x amount."


    as for searching i did but seems like a misspelled masochism, so sue me
  • JadedJaded Posts: 4,427 ★★★★★
    Maso didn’t always work this way. Og Thor was a good solution when 5.2 was released because maso only removed one of his debuffs from a well timed block.
  • Bidzy7Bidzy7 Posts: 369 ★★★
    @Jaded OG thor actually worked differently in that his Armor break was applied after the stun. So stun from parry will trigger and then after armor break will apply but maso would remove the stun and go on cooldown before the armor break applied. Visually though it appears as they both apply at the same time.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    Bidzy7 said:

    Well from what i recall it was stated because the debuffs were applied at the same time there was no way to distinguish which debuff to remove hence why all debuffs get removed/purified when applied at the same time.

    My point was they managed to figure it out for the Nick fury fix so they can do the same for masochism.

    You say it was working as intended, then then can just update the text. Not exactly hard to do to be clear especially since i'm sure loads of new players probably report it as a bug when first encountering it.

    something along the lines of
    "Every 7 seconds the defender purifies all new debuffs when inflicted with a new debuff and heals for x amount."


    as for searching i did but seems like a misspelled masochism, so sue me

    The difference is, one is intended to work that way, and one is not. Has nothing to do with picking and choosing which bugs to fix. The Nodes aren't bugged.
    Moreover, he wasn't intended to Purify all, and he wasn't intended to be used for penalty-free Suicides. That's more game-changing than they designed. That's a priority.
  • Fighter092Fighter092 Posts: 128

    Maybe kabam can change the description of the node, for me clearly is just one debuff, not all the players come to the forums.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    .
  • DalBotDalBot Posts: 1,410 ★★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Y’all need to understand this Kabam wants nothing to be in our favour so this thread is pretty much pointless

    And we all know which ones not to engage in these forums because they exist here to get threads closed. Don't engage those posters please.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    DalBot said:

    Zuro said:

    Y’all need to understand this Kabam wants nothing to be in our favour so this thread is pretty much pointless

    And we all know which ones not to engage in these forums because they exist here to get threads closed. Don't engage those posters please.
    I’m just being realistic this topic as come around so many times yet all they say is that Masochism is working as intended when the caption clearly states otherwise but they just want to make more things difficult for us

  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    My intention isn’t tryna get these threads closed I’m just saying this topic comes up a lot and they are just going to ignore it
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    They haven't ignored it. People just refuse to accept the answer and keep bringing up their own narrative.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    Honestly, I've explained this so many times I'm a bit tired of being repetitive, but here goes.

    When you have Champs that apply Debuffs in one mechanic, like Corvus or Blade, that triggers the Node to consume the entire application. It has to do with how they're applied. The Node is working as intended because adding Debuffs with Parry counts as one application.

    Side note, Corvus and Blade will have downfalls. No Champ can plow through and dominate everything. I can read. It really doesn't matter what they call it. If they updated the Description to have an addendum that says, "In the event....", people would just argue they only pick and choose what benefits them. Which is why I addressed the real misconception.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    The bottom line is, Fury wasn't meant to do that, and allowing the bug to exist would be game-altering. All the argument does is apply one wording grey area to another and imply they only fix things that benefit people. What's not acknowledged is the effect those things have on the overall game, and the fact that the Nodes are meant to perform that way.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    Clearly the coding isn't wrong because they've indicated on multiple occasions that it's working as intended. Therefore, that's how they want it to perform.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    Also, AA has multiple hits to his Heavy.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    If we were being technical, a Parry isn't a hit itself. It's a well-timed Block that can nullify Damage through the use of the Mastery, or Champs' mechanics. In some cases, it can apply Debuffs. If you expect it to bypass Damage, apply Debuffs, AND bypass Masochism by applying those Debuffs individually, that just becomes an entirely different mechanic that performs a little too OP.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    People are complaining because Corvus and Blade won't bypass Masochism. Which brings me back to my original comment. They can't dominate everything.
    Incidentally, they're also complaining because they're claiming hypocrisy over the Fury fix in relation to this. Which is just bitterness over the fix.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    mike867 said:

    People are complaining because Corvus and Blade won't bypass Masochism. Which brings me back to my original comment. They can't dominate everything.
    Incidentally, they're also complaining because they're claiming hypocrisy over the Fury fix in relation to this. Which is just bitterness over the fix.

    Im not talking about fury Im talking about double debuffs being nulled by masochism. I dont even use corvus or blade. Im the ghost guy but I still demand things to be fair.

    You can take their side in this argument but u cant deny the fact that the node description is misleading. If they change that description, it changes the node as a whole and there might be a different kind of community backlash. Thats all i will say
    You're not even hearing what I said about that. I've explained why it works that way. They've explained it's working as intended as well. That's how it's always worked. Yet here we are, arguing about the wording, and you're implying if they rectify the wording, that will create some type of backlash as well. Which is true, because people will complain no matter what they do.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    mike867 said:

    They should have caught it before release. Properly testing synergies should obviously be a priority and if you’re going to have a Content Creators Program why aren’t you watching the content they create with those special access characters? I saw a few accounts address how strong his Restoration Kit synergy was and Kabam did nothing to address it until long after Nick Fury’s release date. It seems like they purposely broke the synergy to make a higher profit and then fixed it to avoid losing profit in the long run.

    @GroundedWisdom with ur 'one-application' theory, one can argue that Fury actually removed both debuffs and not one....so its all around the place
    No it's not at all. The wording in that description said "Debuff". They themselves stated that he wasn't intended to remove all. That's the entire basis for this argument. That the Descriptions are similar, but one is allowed to remove all at once. What is not being taken into account is a) they decide what is and is not intended, and b) that a Champ which can enable Suicides to be run without penalty changes the game in a much greater way than a couple Champs that have Debuffs which are consumed by a Node, which has worked as intended all along.
    Either way you look at it, people are either unhappy Fury was fixed, or unhappy that those Champs can't bypass Masochism. Both cases would involve creating overpowered situations. The only resolution I see remotely feasible is an update to the Description of the Nodes, and we'll be right back here with the same conspiracy theories about how they only think of themselves. When in actuality, some of the Players are only thinking about themselves and not seeing overall effects on the game.
  • Kobster84Kobster84 Posts: 2,898 ★★★★★

    mike867 said:

    They should have caught it before release. Properly testing synergies should obviously be a priority and if you’re going to have a Content Creators Program why aren’t you watching the content they create with those special access characters? I saw a few accounts address how strong his Restoration Kit synergy was and Kabam did nothing to address it until long after Nick Fury’s release date. It seems like they purposely broke the synergy to make a higher profit and then fixed it to avoid losing profit in the long run.

    @GroundedWisdom with ur 'one-application' theory, one can argue that Fury actually removed both debuffs and not one....so its all around the place
    No it's not at all. The wording in that description said "Debuff". They themselves stated that he wasn't intended to remove all. That's the entire basis for this argument. That the Descriptions are similar, but one is allowed to remove all at once. What is not being taken into account is a) they decide what is and is not intended, and b) that a Champ which can enable Suicides to be run without penalty changes the game in a much greater way than a couple Champs that have Debuffs which are consumed by a Node, which has worked as intended all along.
    Either way you look at it, people are either unhappy Fury was fixed, or unhappy that those Champs can't bypass Masochism. Both cases would involve creating overpowered situations. The only resolution I see remotely feasible is an update to the Description of the Nodes, and we'll be right back here with the same conspiracy theories about how they only think of themselves. When in actuality, some of the Players are only thinking about themselves and not seeing overall effects on the game.
    Masochism is also described as debuff not debuffs
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 28,249 ★★★★★
    edited April 2019
    I didn't say it would make those Champs OP, I said the mechanic of Parry would become an OP mechanic.

    Parry Nullifies incoming Damage with a well-timed Block. In some cases, it applies Debuffs, as in the case of Corvus and Blade.
    This is a one-application process. It's not Stun+Bleed. It's Stun AND Bleed. In the case of Stun-Immune Champs, the Damage is still Nullified, but the Stun doesn't apply. The mechanic itself is all one application. Which is why Masochism is all one process to consume.
    What you're suggesting is reworking the entire process of Parry to separate those Debuff applications into something that can be processed sequentially. Not a simple undertaking, and not really detrimental to the game overall, to have Masochism consume all in those instances. It's quite literally working as intended because of how the mechanics are applied. It's not a pick-and-choose situation.
    Fury in his bugged state allowed people to Purify all Debuffs in order to overpower a Mastery that's already designed to empower. It was a bug that would change the landscape of the game by way of what it would enable. He wasn't meant to do that through the Synergy.

    If you're disputing that the Description should be updated, I would have no issue with that, albeit I have doubts it will make people happy. If you're suggesting they rework everything concerning those Nodes to match the Description, I highly doubt that's worth the effort, much less an option that will pass.

    It wasn't a mistake. Fury was. Which they responded to, and corrected. I'm not getting into "They waited.". It wasn't that long.

    As for 4*s being banned from Act 6, that's a necessary progress gate to keep the Cavalier Rewards in the access of Accounts that have progressed far enough so that they don't offset the entire Rewards flow of the game. Somehow people think they're owed something in that, but not what we're here to discuss.

    *For the record, those "two Champs" are two of the most powerful in the game. Every move in the cog has an effect on the overall system. Some moves affect more parts.
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