Champs are getting way too complicated.. yes you Ebony Maw

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  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    I mean how come when that deadpool was here it wasnt a problem when he had corvus immune in his bio but there was no problem and not only that you guys are complaining that one champ counters corvus when there are literal do you bleed nodes which counter over half of the champs in the game and everyone keeps silent about that like smh stop relying on your crutch for everything

    Clearly that Deapool challenge was a one-off joke of an event. Not a new champ that will be in the contest forever. Why is it so hard for people to understand that it is a bad design decision and sets a poor precedent for future champs? It's just as bad for the game as when willpower was making a number of champs worthless because they placed debuffs and couldn't ever outdamage the regen. "You can use another champ" wasn't a sufficient argument against making a change for the better there either. For your bleed argument, if Kabam made a champ that couldn't attack if he was bleeding, it would be a poor and short-sighted design choice there too. There's a big difference between creating counter champs (SymbSupreme and many other mystics are very effective counters to Corvus) and designing to make one or more champs always lose.
    I think you missd my point there is a do you bleed node in act 6 where you can only do bleed damage and that limits over half the champs in the game but once there is ONE champ who counters most people's crutchs its a whole issue yet with the do you bleed node it counters way more than 2 or 3 champs so why is this an issue like this is being blown out of proportion
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,448 ★★★★

    What if Kabam buffed Magneto to where he should be: an OP metal manipulator? In the Comics he is a very direct counter to Wolverine. Wolvie should not be able to even touch Magneto. Same should be true for Ultron, Sentinel, Nebula and Vision (and maybe a couple more) against Magneto.

    The big difference would be that there would be 0 outrage. Why? Because Wolvie isn't available as a 5* and because he's outdated in the current meta.

    You think that, but

    1) The contest isn't the comics. Balance is required here and not there.
    and
    2) I would gripe just as much if they made that change. I wouldn't say I'm outraged about it, more annoyed at the direction than anything. It's a bad idea for fighting games. That's why no game company does it. Ever.
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,448 ★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    I mean how come when that deadpool was here it wasnt a problem when he had corvus immune in his bio but there was no problem and not only that you guys are complaining that one champ counters corvus when there are literal do you bleed nodes which counter over half of the champs in the game and everyone keeps silent about that like smh stop relying on your crutch for everything

    Clearly that Deapool challenge was a one-off joke of an event. Not a new champ that will be in the contest forever. Why is it so hard for people to understand that it is a bad design decision and sets a poor precedent for future champs? It's just as bad for the game as when willpower was making a number of champs worthless because they placed debuffs and couldn't ever outdamage the regen. "You can use another champ" wasn't a sufficient argument against making a change for the better there either. For your bleed argument, if Kabam made a champ that couldn't attack if he was bleeding, it would be a poor and short-sighted design choice there too. There's a big difference between creating counter champs (SymbSupreme and many other mystics are very effective counters to Corvus) and designing to make one or more champs always lose.
    I think you missd my point there is a do you bleed node in act 6 where you can only do bleed damage and that limits over half the champs in the game but once there is ONE champ who counters most people's crutchs its a whole issue yet with the do you bleed node it counters way more than 2 or 3 champs so why is this an issue like this is being blown out of proportion
    That's a node and not a champ. Not the same thing. Side note: I thought that wasn't a good idea either. I would have rewarded bleed and penalized non-bleed, not negated non-bleed. Corvus being overused in general is clouding the issue. I don't care who it is that is being hard-stopped (what they've done is much more than a counter, he already has those), it's not a good thing to introduce. Not to mention the unintended consequences for champs like Ultron, Elektra, and any other future champs that might guarantee crit. Now will there be future champs that guarantee crits? Probably not any more. They probably won't change EM because that would set a precedent and people would want immediate changes to every new champ before they even come out. It's annoying because they could have gotten nearly the same effective outcome without introducing so many downstream problems. Crit resistance, decreased crit damage rating, passives on crit, and (de)buffs on crit are all already present and effective if they were looking to make Corvus and Ghost work for a win.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    Zuro said:

    Zuro said:

    I mean how come when that deadpool was here it wasnt a problem when he had corvus immune in his bio but there was no problem and not only that you guys are complaining that one champ counters corvus when there are literal do you bleed nodes which counter over half of the champs in the game and everyone keeps silent about that like smh stop relying on your crutch for everything

    Clearly that Deapool challenge was a one-off joke of an event. Not a new champ that will be in the contest forever. Why is it so hard for people to understand that it is a bad design decision and sets a poor precedent for future champs? It's just as bad for the game as when willpower was making a number of champs worthless because they placed debuffs and couldn't ever outdamage the regen. "You can use another champ" wasn't a sufficient argument against making a change for the better there either. For your bleed argument, if Kabam made a champ that couldn't attack if he was bleeding, it would be a poor and short-sighted design choice there too. There's a big difference between creating counter champs (SymbSupreme and many other mystics are very effective counters to Corvus) and designing to make one or more champs always lose.
    I think you missd my point there is a do you bleed node in act 6 where you can only do bleed damage and that limits over half the champs in the game but once there is ONE champ who counters most people's crutchs its a whole issue yet with the do you bleed node it counters way more than 2 or 3 champs so why is this an issue like this is being blown out of proportion
    That's a node and not a champ. Not the same thing. Side note: I thought that wasn't a good idea either. I would have rewarded bleed and penalized non-bleed, not negated non-bleed. Corvus being overused in general is clouding the issue. I don't care who it is that is being hard-stopped (what they've done is much more than a counter, he already has those), it's not a good thing to introduce. Not to mention the unintended consequences for champs like Ultron, Elektra, and any other future champs that might guarantee crit. Now will there be future champs that guarantee crits? Probably not any more. They probably won't change EM because that would set a precedent and people would want immediate changes to every new champ before they even come out. It's annoying because they could have gotten nearly the same effective outcome without introducing so many downstream problems. Crit resistance, decreased crit damage rating, passives on crit, and (de)buffs on crit are all already present and effective if they were looking to make Corvus and Ghost work for a win.
    They already adaddressed this where they say that the contest is continuing to evolve where eventually the top champs will have counters than those counters will have counters themselves its how the game works and that argument saying one I a node and the other is a champ doesnt take away the fact that rarely anyone had a problem with that node while this thing is being blown out of proportion
  • Dexman1349Dexman1349 Posts: 3,060 ★★★★★
    Where was the "hard stop = bad" outrage with Mystic champs against Human Torch?
  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,448 ★★★★

    Where was the "hard stop = bad" outrage with Mystic champs against Human Torch?

    They can still readily damage him and if they cause bleed the fight is even easier for them. Not a hard stop. Hard stop would be something like "HT power locks mystic champs and takes no damage from their basic attacks".
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★

    Where was the "hard stop = bad" outrage with Mystic champs against Human Torch?

    They can still readily damage him and if they cause bleed the fight is even easier for them. Not a hard stop. Hard stop would be something like "HT power locks mystic champs and takes no damage from their basic attacks".
    As I mentioned for the 100th time the do you bleed node in act 6 is a hard stop for many players who don't have any bleed Champs as 5 stars and the last time I checked that node counters way more Champs that Ebony Maw does but there was no backlash about the node but once there is a counter to most peoples crutchs it's a problem like you guys act like Corbusier and ghost are supposed to win every single battle

  • BigPoppaCBONEBigPoppaCBONE Posts: 1,448 ★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Where was the "hard stop = bad" outrage with Mystic champs against Human Torch?

    They can still readily damage him and if they cause bleed the fight is even easier for them. Not a hard stop. Hard stop would be something like "HT power locks mystic champs and takes no damage from their basic attacks".
    As I mentioned for the 100th time the do you bleed node in act 6 is a hard stop for many players who don't have any bleed Champs as 5 stars and the last time I checked that node counters way more Champs that Ebony Maw does but there was no backlash about the node but once there is a counter to most peoples crutchs it's a problem like you guys act like Corbusier and ghost are supposed to win every single battle

    Yep. The nodes and Act 6 itself are gated. It's been said many times by Kabam that you will need a broad roster to be successful. I also said, I thought those were bad ideas. I can't control the fact that other people didn't complain as well. I also said that Corvus being popular and overused is clouding the issue. The direction is just as bad if they brought in a champ that Gambit couldn't beat. Knowing Kabam though, that would probably have been inadvertent. This is obviously on purpose and just bad business. Like I said before, that's why no one does it.
  • StarhawkStarhawk Posts: 331 ★★
    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,520 ★★★★★
    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    Quit because you can't use one or two Champs against another, out of 150+? You use one of the other two you brought in.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
  • bryndenriversbryndenrivers Posts: 443 ★★
    MMCskippy said:

    What they're really doing is poisoning the post 12.0 player base with the same baloney that poisoned people against the game when 12.0 happened.

    It's capitalism at it's finiest...
    1. Create a cool product
    2. Market cool product
    3. Sales plateau
    4. Create game mechanic to increase revenue (masteries, stoney cores, carb cores, boosts, high damage champs, perfect block teams, synergies, etc)
    5. Market said game mechanic to drive up demand and increase revenue
    6. Create hard counter to new game mechanic when income plateaus
    7. Create new game mechanic to try and increase revenue again
    8. Repeat ad infinitum or until a majority of the player base just can't handle the complexity and quits in frustration.

    With Ebony Maw's abilities, we're about to Step 8 in this process.

    wow you said it better than i ever could!!!
  • Savio444Savio444 Posts: 1,781 ★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    What if your using 5*,4* and 3* Corvus in the same team????

    ???
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 5,010 ★★★★★

    What if Kabam buffed Magneto to where he should be: an OP metal manipulator? In the Comics he is a very direct counter to Wolverine. Wolvie should not be able to even touch Magneto. Same should be true for Ultron, Sentinel, Nebula and Vision (and maybe a couple more) against Magneto.

    The big difference would be that there would be 0 outrage. Why? Because Wolvie isn't available as a 5* and because he's outdated in the current meta.

    I’d be ecstatic if Mags were turned into Ebony Maw against metal champs. But I don’t see that happening since he’s old, old, old.

    Dr. Zola
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Savio444 said:

    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    What if your using 5*,4* and 3* Corvus in the same team????

    ???
    You can win the 2 other fights lmao
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    What if Kabam buffed Magneto to where he should be: an OP metal manipulator? In the Comics he is a very direct counter to Wolverine. Wolvie should not be able to even touch Magneto. Same should be true for Ultron, Sentinel, Nebula and Vision (and maybe a couple more) against Magneto.

    The big difference would be that there would be 0 outrage. Why? Because Wolvie isn't available as a 5* and because he's outdated in the current meta.

    I’d be ecstatic if Mags were turned into Ebony Maw against metal champs. But I don’t see that happening since he’s old, old, old.

    Dr. Zola
    It would also be werid since he has a disadvantage to tech champs
  • Savio444Savio444 Posts: 1,781 ★★★★
    Zuro said:

    Savio444 said:

    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    What if your using 5*,4* and 3* Corvus in the same team????

    ???
    You can win the 2 other fights lmao
    What if there are 2 ebony maws???????
  • Haji_SaabHaji_Saab Posts: 5,639 ★★★★★
    Savio444 said:

    Zuro said:

    Savio444 said:

    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    What if your using 5*,4* and 3* Corvus in the same team????

    ???
    You can win the 2 other fights lmao
    What if there are 2 ebony maws???????

    4, 5 and 6* Ebony Maw vs Corvus, Elektra and Ghost ... funnnn
  • DrZolaDrZola Posts: 5,010 ★★★★★
    edited May 2019
    Zuro said:

    DrZola said:

    What if Kabam buffed Magneto to where he should be: an OP metal manipulator? In the Comics he is a very direct counter to Wolverine. Wolvie should not be able to even touch Magneto. Same should be true for Ultron, Sentinel, Nebula and Vision (and maybe a couple more) against Magneto.

    The big difference would be that there would be 0 outrage. Why? Because Wolvie isn't available as a 5* and because he's outdated in the current meta.

    I’d be ecstatic if Mags were turned into Ebony Maw against metal champs. But I don’t see that happening since he’s old, old, old.

    Dr. Zola
    It would also be werid since he has a disadvantage to tech champs
    Sure. But in a game where Bucky is a Skill and Cap is a Science but Red Skull is a Tech and Thor is a Cosmic and Skill and Mystic and Falcon is a Skill but Green Goblin is a Tech...

    ...there’s a lot of metal on Techs. And metal can usually be magnetized.

    Dr. Zola
  • StarhawkStarhawk Posts: 331 ★★
    edited May 2019
    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    hey man don't **** personal attack me here. Calling someone an idiot isn't going to get you far in life when you grow up.
  • ChopstickWarriorChopstickWarrior Posts: 14
    LOL I'm sorry but what? I get it he has a long list to read and it won't be easy to explain it to everyone in the alliance if the arent as involved as some are, but he has 2 abilities you need to be carefull of.
    1: Only the first light attack makes contact and can stun him if you parry that attack
    2: he got a timer that once is done you get stacks on you and every 20 stacks your next attack will miss. The timer can be broken and reset by heavying him.
    Now he has other abilities and yes his list is long but that's for when you play him plus it's still not complicated just long.
    He has a passive degen but it's not even that bad and he gets that from his missions, which if you are decently at the game he has like 1 mission he can complete without you being able to counter it and thats the buff nulify by his sp1 since he gives you a buff if you dont have one which he can nulify by doing another sp1.

    As last he makes guaranteed critical hits miss if the champ you use doesnt got class adventage. Now this is not bad if you are questing and you know there is an EM on that path. In other words I dont mind them creating counters that's how most games create balance (or at least try). My concern is though that in war champs are hidden unless its the boss/mini.
    This is where i can't see how this is healthy for balance or player experience.
    Basically they are saying you can't risk to take corvus into a mystic anymore or you are screwed big time, ok you can take 3 champs with and you can scout ahead and you with corvus you got classdisadventage so you dont want to use him anyways (although he is good for a lot of mystics still).
    Let's take the other champ EM counters: Ghost, no classdisadventage so before EM ghost users used her against every mystic. Now they cant risk it anymore unless they see persistent charges. Again you can say take another champ with but the thing is with ghost you want your synergies with lets say wasp for sure and then antman or hood depending on the path. No problem right, just replace that 3th synergy champ with a different champ, but maybe you did do that already because of a certain node and you dont feel comfy with that champ against lets say a high ranked mystic. OK use wasp then she is perfect for EM and all that but what if they dont have a high ranked wasp.

    Now i realise in the middle of typing this that EM has persistent charges himself so you can still see at that point if it's him or if they are duped it can be MS or EM and yes that lowers the chance of you getting fkd by not knowing it is EM.
    BUT this means that ghost players with only a low ranked wasp can't take a third synergy champ if they see a mystic and that i'm not keen on because maybe they wanted to bring hood for an aon fight or hyperion/powergain node fight and now they are limited to do so.
    A possible solution could be to show persistent charges of champs on the map while scouting instead of only showing it when at the champ itself. Now i also can understand that that's less fun for the strategic defense placement of the game but oh well thats why i say possible.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 27,520 ★★★★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    Savio444 said:

    Zuro said:

    Savio444 said:

    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    What if your using 5*,4* and 3* Corvus in the same team????

    ???
    You can win the 2 other fights lmao
    What if there are 2 ebony maws???????

    4, 5 and 6* Ebony Maw vs Corvus, Elektra and Ghost ... funnnn
    That Match is highly unlikely.
  • ZuroZuro Posts: 2,023 ★★★★★
    Starhawk said:

    Zuro said:

    Starhawk said:

    so how is this going to work in Arenas if you have Corvus and he happens to be matched up with Ebony Maw? Automatic loss? How is that fun? Another reason to quit arenas altogether and eventually the game?

    What you just said is pretty idiotic last time I checked you can bring 3 champs in arena so use the other two
    hey man don't **** personal attack me here. Calling someone an idiot isn't going to get you far in life when you grow up.
    I never called you an idiot I called the statement idiotic I never attacked you personally so what are u on about
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