Kabam...AW match making frustrations boiling over

Greywarden · May 2019

Markjv81 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
It shouldn’t mean more points because it shouldn’t be included full stop. It just makes the leaderboard a rank and file leaderboard like AQ. May as wel just bun AW and add the rewards to AQ.

Agree to disagree on this one. The barely 20 million rating alliances facing gold level competition shouldn’t be getting the same points as my group who have faced everyone in the top 10 just because we’re the same war rating.

If we’re using the AQ metric of prestige to match wars then that has to be considered as a tougher war.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
Man I'm with you on a solution but prestige isnt it..

War used to be about skill. Not who ranked goldpool diablo.
We used to be about skill when people fought honestly. We used to be about skill when the system would naturally fall into where Allies belonged because people won and lost based on their ability. Now, not the case.
Right and prestige doesnt fix that in any way at all..
It's making war worse for tons of allainces.
Honestly more so then tanking did.
Sorry but you dont solve issues by making a new issue bigger then the old one
No. It's not making things worse than Tanking did.
Agree to disagree last season the height of tanking my allaince had fair matches all season. This season weve had 2 hair matches all season.

When your prestige far outweighs what your allaince can do it's pretty bad for that ally.

You can buy prestige you cannot buy skill

You can't buy skill, but it's not fair when you're running with much more than anyone else in your Bracket.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Worknprogress said:

GroundedWisdom said:
It does measure the strength of the Alliance because they're using their uppermost Roster. Not the middle of what they have. In War, an Alliance is only as strong as the best they can put up. Numerically, that's a fact.
But like I said, there's no difference in prestige between an alliance full of 5 R5 or 15 R5 players. It makes a large difference in defense strength though. So prestige just wouldn't work, especially at the top

Wouldn't work how? That's the same in the old way. You can just as easily come up agaisnt Allies with more than what you have.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:

Markjv81 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
It shouldn’t mean more points because it shouldn’t be included full stop. It just makes the leaderboard a rank and file leaderboard like AQ. May as wel just bun AW and add the rewards to AQ.
Agree to disagree on this one. The barely 20 million rating alliances facing gold level competition shouldn’t be getting the same points as my group who have faced everyone in the top 10 just because we’re the same war rating.

If we’re using the AQ metric of prestige to match wars then that has to be considered as a tougher war.
Correct they should be faced on aar rating and decimated by other groups in the master bracket.

I was always led to believe you become the best by beating the best. Not by ducking them all season. Prestige has zero place in war at all ever

This isn't a Pyramid Match where you go through any Ally all the way to the top. It's much more complex than that.

Greywarden · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
Man I'm with you on a solution but prestige isnt it..

War used to be about skill. Not who ranked goldpool diablo.
We used to be about skill when people fought honestly. We used to be about skill when the system would naturally fall into where Allies belonged because people won and lost based on their ability. Now, not the case.
Right and prestige doesnt fix that in any way at all..
It's making war worse for tons of allainces.
Honestly more so then tanking did.
Sorry but you dont solve issues by making a new issue bigger then the old one
No. It's not making things worse than Tanking did.
Agree to disagree last season the height of tanking my allaince had fair matches all season. This season weve had 2 hair matches all season.

When your prestige far outweighs what your allaince can do it's pretty bad for that ally.

You can buy prestige you cannot buy skill
You can't buy skill, but it's not fair when you're running with much more than anyone else in your Bracket.

How about the other way around where you never face anyone in your bracket but get their same rewards lol....works both ways

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Greywarden said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
Man I'm with you on a solution but prestige isnt it..

War used to be about skill. Not who ranked goldpool diablo.
We used to be about skill when people fought honestly. We used to be about skill when the system would naturally fall into where Allies belonged because people won and lost based on their ability. Now, not the case.
Right and prestige doesnt fix that in any way at all..
It's making war worse for tons of allainces.
Honestly more so then tanking did.
Sorry but you dont solve issues by making a new issue bigger then the old one
No. It's not making things worse than Tanking did.
Agree to disagree last season the height of tanking my allaince had fair matches all season. This season weve had 2 hair matches all season.

When your prestige far outweighs what your allaince can do it's pretty bad for that ally.

You can buy prestige you cannot buy skill
You can't buy skill, but it's not fair when you're running with much more than anyone else in your Bracket.
How about the other way around where you never face anyone in your bracket but get their same rewards lol....works both ways

The Brackets are based on Points. Points are earned through your Tier Multiplier in either Wins or Losses. Coming up agaisnt everyone in your Bracket is not a necessity in this system. I honestly don't know why people keep getting hung up on that. Brackets are all based on Points. Not beating all the other Allies in that Bracket. Think of it as an Arena. At the end of the Event, the Brackets are all based on Points. Master gets the Champ, then 1-10% and so on. Just an example, but the main point is it's a scoring system based on Points. Not who else is in your Bracket, and whether you fought them or not. The only thing that matters is the Points you put up in your own Wars.

Greywarden · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Greywarden said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
Man I'm with you on a solution but prestige isnt it..

War used to be about skill. Not who ranked goldpool diablo.
We used to be about skill when people fought honestly. We used to be about skill when the system would naturally fall into where Allies belonged because people won and lost based on their ability. Now, not the case.
Right and prestige doesnt fix that in any way at all..
It's making war worse for tons of allainces.
Honestly more so then tanking did.
Sorry but you dont solve issues by making a new issue bigger then the old one
No. It's not making things worse than Tanking did.
Agree to disagree last season the height of tanking my allaince had fair matches all season. This season weve had 2 hair matches all season.

When your prestige far outweighs what your allaince can do it's pretty bad for that ally.

You can buy prestige you cannot buy skill
You can't buy skill, but it's not fair when you're running with much more than anyone else in your Bracket.
How about the other way around where you never face anyone in your bracket but get their same rewards lol....works both ways
The Brackets are based on Points. Points are earned through your Tier Multiplier in either Wins or Losses. Coming up agaisnt everyone in your Bracket is not a necessity in this system. I honestly don't know why people keep getting hung up on that. Brackets are all based on Points. Not beating all the other Allies in that Bracket. Think of it as an Arena. At the end of the Event, the Brackets are all based on Points. Master gets the Champ, then 1-10% and so on. Just an example, but the main point is it's a scoring system based on Points. Not who else is in your Bracket, and whether you fought them or not. The only thing that matters is the Points you put up in your own Wars.

Do you REALLY think this current iteration of match making makes sense? It would be impossible for the top 20 to constantly play each other but do you think this is all fine as is?

Not sure what tier you play in but as a tier 1 guy for the last few seasons this is probably the worst iteration they’ve had and I had a +127/-2 match against MMXIV a few seasons ago....

Markjv81 · May 2019

Greywarden said:

Markjv81 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
It shouldn’t mean more points because it shouldn’t be included full stop. It just makes the leaderboard a rank and file leaderboard like AQ. May as wel just bun AW and add the rewards to AQ.
Agree to disagree on this one. The barely 20 million rating alliances facing gold level competition shouldn’t be getting the same points as my group who have faced everyone in the top 10 just because we’re the same war rating.

If we’re using the AQ metric of prestige to match wars then that has to be considered as a tougher war.

No, I agree with you, if prestige wasn’t a factor like I said it shouldn’t be then they wouldn’t be at the level anyway. You should only face alliances equal to your tier.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Greywarden said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
Man I'm with you on a solution but prestige isnt it..

War used to be about skill. Not who ranked goldpool diablo.
We used to be about skill when people fought honestly. We used to be about skill when the system would naturally fall into where Allies belonged because people won and lost based on their ability. Now, not the case.
Right and prestige doesnt fix that in any way at all..
It's making war worse for tons of allainces.
Honestly more so then tanking did.
Sorry but you dont solve issues by making a new issue bigger then the old one
No. It's not making things worse than Tanking did.
Agree to disagree last season the height of tanking my allaince had fair matches all season. This season weve had 2 hair matches all season.

When your prestige far outweighs what your allaince can do it's pretty bad for that ally.

You can buy prestige you cannot buy skill
You can't buy skill, but it's not fair when you're running with much more than anyone else in your Bracket.
How about the other way around where you never face anyone in your bracket but get their same rewards lol....works both ways
The Brackets are based on Points. Points are earned through your Tier Multiplier in either Wins or Losses. Coming up agaisnt everyone in your Bracket is not a necessity in this system. I honestly don't know why people keep getting hung up on that. Brackets are all based on Points. Not beating all the other Allies in that Bracket. Think of it as an Arena. At the end of the Event, the Brackets are all based on Points. Master gets the Champ, then 1-10% and so on. Just an example, but the main point is it's a scoring system based on Points. Not who else is in your Bracket, and whether you fought them or not. The only thing that matters is the Points you put up in your own Wars.
Right brackets guys in the beginner arena arent in the veteran arena.

You arent fighting the same people and thus you dont get the same rewards your finally getting it

You cant win the heavyweight title by punching midgets in the face

No. You're fighting Wars that have a Matchmaking component which doesn't rely on you fighting people based on Brackets that are determined by the Points you have. Just the same as I don't have to fight the Top Spot for a Champ in the Arena. I just have to put up more Points.
These Brackets are not the same as the other system where the "strongest" Allies own their spots and you need to beat them to win. It's Points-based. Master IS Master because they put up more Points. Not because they beat everyone under them. That's an impossible scenario in the current setup. You earn Points by raising your Multiplier and gaining Wins. Your Multiplier goes up as you win more. More Points means higher Ranking. People are looking at this entirely wrong. The Brackets are determined by the Points you've put up with your own performance. Not fighting your way past everyone to the top of the Bracket Leaderboard.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Lainua said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I know exactly what I'm talking about. What I don't have the energy for is to open peoples' minds when they refuse to see something. So I need a break. Lol.
Still talking. No shame at all, huh?

I'm not trying to explain Prestige as a measure of strength, am I?

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Greywarden said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Drooped2 said:

Greywarden said:
I think we’re all getting off course debating definitions with people who want to argue for the sake of arguing.

What we need to come together on is pressing mods for a comment on this seasons match making adjustments and if there is any plan to adjust in the future.

I’ve said it a few times but if match making criteria is going to be adjusted and possibly always go off of prestige then points need to reflect that.

Higher prestige means more points in aq why can’t it mean more in aw?
Man I'm with you on a solution but prestige isnt it..

War used to be about skill. Not who ranked goldpool diablo.
We used to be about skill when people fought honestly. We used to be about skill when the system would naturally fall into where Allies belonged because people won and lost based on their ability. Now, not the case.
Right and prestige doesnt fix that in any way at all..
It's making war worse for tons of allainces.
Honestly more so then tanking did.
Sorry but you dont solve issues by making a new issue bigger then the old one
No. It's not making things worse than Tanking did.
Agree to disagree last season the height of tanking my allaince had fair matches all season. This season weve had 2 hair matches all season.

When your prestige far outweighs what your allaince can do it's pretty bad for that ally.

You can buy prestige you cannot buy skill
You can't buy skill, but it's not fair when you're running with much more than anyone else in your Bracket.
How about the other way around where you never face anyone in your bracket but get their same rewards lol....works both ways
The Brackets are based on Points. Points are earned through your Tier Multiplier in either Wins or Losses. Coming up agaisnt everyone in your Bracket is not a necessity in this system. I honestly don't know why people keep getting hung up on that. Brackets are all based on Points. Not beating all the other Allies in that Bracket. Think of it as an Arena. At the end of the Event, the Brackets are all based on Points. Master gets the Champ, then 1-10% and so on. Just an example, but the main point is it's a scoring system based on Points. Not who else is in your Bracket, and whether you fought them or not. The only thing that matters is the Points you put up in your own Wars.
Right brackets guys in the beginner arena arent in the veteran arena.

You arent fighting the same people and thus you dont get the same rewards your finally getting it

You cant win the heavyweight title by punching midgets in the face
No. You're fighting Wars that have a Matchmaking component which doesn't rely on you fighting people based on Brackets that are determined by the Points you have. Just the same as I don't have to fight the Top Spot for a Champ in the Arena. I just have to put up more Points.
These Brackets are not the same as the other system where the "strongest" Allies own their spots and you need to beat them to win. It's Points-based. Master IS Master because they put up more Points. Not because they beat everyone under them. That's an impossible scenario in the current setup. You earn Points by raising your Multiplier and gaining Wins. Your Multiplier goes up as you win more. More Points means higher Ranking. People are looking at this entirely wrong. The Brackets are determined by the Points you've put up with your own performance. Not fighting your way past everyone to the top of the Bracket Leaderboard.
Which is a flawed system. If you cant compete with the master allainces you cant get those rewards.

Prestige is messing up the war matches drasticlly

Strongly disagree.

Greywarden · May 2019

Just wait until t5cc is given out in new war rewards for masters and half the groups winning the rewards can’t even use them.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

Wait until the Final Results come out and people feel embarrassed for over-reacting. Lol.

RagamugginGunner · May 2019

This is like arguing with a child. They had it in their head that a high school basketball team with an average height of 6'4" is better than a NBA team with an average height of 6'3". How tall someone is determines their basketball ability so that HS team is easily the best.

Greywarden · May 2019

Wait until you get to 17k posts, shouldn’t be that long.

Markjv81 · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:

Lainua said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I know exactly what I'm talking about. What I don't have the energy for is to open peoples' minds when they refuse to see something. So I need a break. Lol.
Still talking. No shame at all, huh?
I'm not trying to explain Prestige as a measure of strength, am I?

No but you’re trying to explain something you don’t understand which is cute.

RagamugginGunner · May 2019

GroundedWisdom said:
I know exactly what I'm talking about. What I don't have the energy for is to open peoples' minds when they refuse to see something. So I need a break. Lol.

What are the odds that you're right ant everyone else is wrong?

QuikPik · May 2019

Again you are just making statements to match your misguided narrative. No one is arguing that these alliances didn't earn those points. We are stating that these alliances haven't played any other alliances in the same bracket.

Fact, I have a friend in a 11m alliance. They are high Gold 1, tier 3 and have never faced an alliance above 12m. You can't blame good fortune that in 11 matches they have never faced a larger tier 3 alliance. I probably have more R4/R5* than their entire alliance but yet they are in a higher war tier and are ranked higher than us. Last season you had a 6m alliance finish in plat 3.

You can't say this system isn't profoundly flawed when you have a junior varsity sub-system within wars but they still get varsity rewards.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

RagamugginGunner said:

GroundedWisdom said:
I know exactly what I'm talking about. What I don't have the energy for is to open peoples' minds when they refuse to see something. So I need a break. Lol.
What are the odds that you're right ant everyone else is wrong?

Statistically.....LOL.

GroundedWisdom · May 2019

QuikPik said:
Again you are just making statements to match your misguided narrative. No one is arguing that these alliances didn't earn those points. We are stating that these alliances haven't played any other alliances in the same bracket.

Fact, I have a friend in a 11m alliance. They are high Gold 1, tier 3 and have never faced an alliance above 12m. You can't blame good fortune that in 11 matches they have never faced a larger tier 3 alliance. I probably have more R4/R5* than their entire alliance but yet they are in a higher war tier and are ranked higher than us. Last season you had a 6m alliance finish in plat 3.

You can't say this system isn't profoundly flawed when you have a junior varsity sub-system within wars but they still get varsity rewards.

We're not playing Sports. We're playing a game within a complex system. Brackets have never been a factor in Matchmaking. They're the results of the Points people have put up. Somehow people think you have to fight people based on the results on a Leaderboard for Points scoring, but that's not how it works. You have to put up more Points than them.

Kabam...AW match making frustrations boiling over

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