Act 6 Chapter 2 Gates - Why do 6* not count towards 5* requirement?

ContestChampContestChamp Member Posts: 32 ★
in General Discussion
Let's say we all agree to bend over and take it for Act 6.2... get to a gate that requires a minimum of 4 class 5*....why would a 6* not count towards this requirement? If I have a R2 6*, I should not be forced to use a lessor version. This is just dumb.
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Comments

  • ContestChampContestChamp Member Posts: 32 ★
    If you want to rationalize that they want specific class for a path...then the gates should be class specific not rarity. They need to remove the limitations for 5* gates.

    Could you imagine if Act 5 or Act 6 had 4* gates that would not allow you to use any of your newer champions? This is just a terrible design by Kabam.

    As our rosters improve and we are ranking more 6*, we will not even be able to use them for these paths....needs to be addressed IMO
  • WoogieboogieWoogieboogie Member Posts: 340 ★★
    ContestChamp said:

    Let's say we all agree to bend over and take it for Act 6.2... get to a gate that requires a minimum of 4 class 5*....why would a 6* not count towards this requirement? If I have a R2 6*, I should not be forced to use a lessor version. This is just dumb.

    You answered you own question. Unless 5=6 then 5=5 and 6=6
  • klobberintymeklobberintyme Member Posts: 1,592 ★★★★
    Hey, turns out you can't bring in a 6☆ to the featured 4☆ arena either. Turns out only 4 and 5 ☆ champs are eligible, even though 6 > 5 and 4.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Archit_Tandon498Archit_Tandon498 Member Posts: 325 ★★
    I feel the reason is so that you cannot bring stronger champs at a later stage to complete the content. Max you can use is a 5* R5 instead of a 6* R5.
  • FingfangfoomfanesFingfangfoomfanes Member Posts: 1,102 ★★★
    What the op might mean is that the five stars are under the umbrella of six. In game, these are two different and independent rarities. It’s also the reason why maxed five stars cannot be levelled up to an r1 six star, like how in some games happen.

    That... Or one doesn’t have the roster for the time being, so... cant negotiate, bro.
  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Member Posts: 1,233 ★★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    ContestChamp said:

    Let's say we all agree to bend over and take it for Act 6.2... get to a gate that requires a minimum of 4 class 5*....why would a 6* not count towards this requirement? If I have a R2 6*, I should not be forced to use a lessor version. This is just dumb.

    Why does $1 not equal $10's? Because they aren't the same....
    If a water bottle costs $1 then you can also pay for the bottle using the $10 and get the change, they arent the same but on is a derivative of the other
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Member Posts: 2,605 ★★★★★
    I see both sides.

    1- in a year you take 3 rank 3 6 stars. Destroy path
    2- you waste resources ranking a 5 star you wouldn’t of ranked in the first place.

    C.R.E.A.K

    Cash rules everything around kabam
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,678 Guardian
    V1PER1987 said:

    Lol I like how people are disagreeing with my comment because they don’t understand 6 =/= 5. It’s just a way to restrict power beyond those paths. A year down the line it’ll be a lot easier to plow through those paths with 6* R3 and R4 than 5* R3-5. That’s probably why.

    I don't think that is the reason, or those paths wouldn't have a minimum prerequisite, they'd have a lock. In other words, you're required to bring some 5* champs, but you aren't limited to *only* bringing 5* champs. A hard limit would limit power for the future, but a minimum prereq doesn't really.

    The reason is almost certainly the obvious, which is that the gates force players to build more diverse rosters. People keep tacking things onto the end like "to force people to spend" or whatever, but in this case this is likely an end, not a means to an end. The game's progress is focused in large part on roster development which is two-dimensional: you can grow roster wider and you can grow it "taller" via rank ups. A lot of players believe the "correct" way to play the game is to focus on taller to the point of ignoring wider. Find "the best" champs and rank them up as high as possible, and then use them to take on everything. The structure of the game - which started out extremely simple - allowed for that. The game is placing gates like this to increase the need to go wider as much as taller, so the roster structure is more pyramid and less tower. The game has been moving in that direction since 12.0.

    It is a completely arbitrary requirement, but only in the sense that all the "winners" of the roster lottery also won under purely arbitrary rules. There's no reason why champs like Corvus or Ghost won the beyond-god-tier lottery except purely by the coincidence of the game's current requirements. Forcing players to possess some number of 5* or 6* or specific class champions is no less, and also no more arbitrary than needing the highest burst damage or the anything else.
  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Member Posts: 1,233 ★★★★
    edited June 2019
    Drooped2 said:

    Tehsigzorz said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    ContestChamp said:

    Let's say we all agree to bend over and take it for Act 6.2... get to a gate that requires a minimum of 4 class 5*....why would a 6* not count towards this requirement? If I have a R2 6*, I should not be forced to use a lessor version. This is just dumb.

    Why does $1 not equal $10's? Because they aren't the same....
    If a water bottle costs $1 then you can also pay for the bottle using the $10 and get the change, they arent the same but on is a derivative of the other
    Unless of course if theres a rule saying exact change only :)
    Which in this case there is
    Well you have the option of letting them keep the change or drop it in the tip box(which is usually the case for places that have this rule) so you are still able to use the $10 bill for a water bottle
  • TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Member Posts: 1,233 ★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    V1PER1987 said:

    Lol I like how people are disagreeing with my comment because they don’t understand 6 =/= 5. It’s just a way to restrict power beyond those paths. A year down the line it’ll be a lot easier to plow through those paths with 6* R3 and R4 than 5* R3-5. That’s probably why.

    I don't think that is the reason, or those paths wouldn't have a minimum prerequisite, they'd have a lock. In other words, you're required to bring some 5* champs, but you aren't limited to *only* bringing 5* champs. A hard limit would limit power for the future, but a minimum prereq doesn't really.

    The reason is almost certainly the obvious, which is that the gates force players to build more diverse rosters. People keep tacking things onto the end like "to force people to spend" or whatever, but in this case this is likely an end, not a means to an end. The game's progress is focused in large part on roster development which is two-dimensional: you can grow roster wider and you can grow it "taller" via rank ups. A lot of players believe the "correct" way to play the game is to focus on taller to the point of ignoring wider. Find "the best" champs and rank them up as high as possible, and then use them to take on everything. The structure of the game - which started out extremely simple - allowed for that. The game is placing gates like this to increase the need to go wider as much as taller, so the roster structure is more pyramid and less tower. The game has been moving in that direction since 12.0.

    It is a completely arbitrary requirement, but only in the sense that all the "winners" of the roster lottery also won under purely arbitrary rules. There's no reason why champs like Corvus or Ghost won the beyond-god-tier lottery except purely by the coincidence of the game's current requirements. Forcing players to possess some number of 5* or 6* or specific class champions is no less, and also no more arbitrary than needing the highest burst damage or the anything else.
    While I somewhat agree with you, you dont 'require' ghost or corvus for any content. Hell you can complete every single game mode without any beyond god tier champs. This content requires you to have a certain roster, you dont have much leeway and there are no benefits to adhering to those requirements and only negatives if you dont.
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Member Posts: 3,474 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    V1PER1987 said:

    Lol I like how people are disagreeing with my comment because they don’t understand 6 =/= 5. It’s just a way to restrict power beyond those paths. A year down the line it’ll be a lot easier to plow through those paths with 6* R3 and R4 than 5* R3-5. That’s probably why.

    I don't think that is the reason, or those paths wouldn't have a minimum prerequisite, they'd have a lock. In other words, you're required to bring some 5* champs, but you aren't limited to *only* bringing 5* champs. A hard limit would limit power for the future, but a minimum prereq doesn't really.

    The reason is almost certainly the obvious, which is that the gates force players to build more diverse rosters. People keep tacking things onto the end like "to force people to spend" or whatever, but in this case this is likely an end, not a means to an end. The game's progress is focused in large part on roster development which is two-dimensional: you can grow roster wider and you can grow it "taller" via rank ups. A lot of players believe the "correct" way to play the game is to focus on taller to the point of ignoring wider. Find "the best" champs and rank them up as high as possible, and then use them to take on everything. The structure of the game - which started out extremely simple - allowed for that. The game is placing gates like this to increase the need to go wider as much as taller, so the roster structure is more pyramid and less tower. The game has been moving in that direction since 12.0.

    It is a completely arbitrary requirement, but only in the sense that all the "winners" of the roster lottery also won under purely arbitrary rules. There's no reason why champs like Corvus or Ghost won the beyond-god-tier lottery except purely by the coincidence of the game's current requirements. Forcing players to possess some number of 5* or 6* or specific class champions is no less, and also no more arbitrary than needing the highest burst damage or the anything else.
    You gotta start making tl;dr sentences at the end or be more succinct. I can’t read multiple paragraphs every single time on every comment of mine that you respond to.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,678 Guardian
    Tehsigzorz said:

    DNA3000 said:

    V1PER1987 said:

    Lol I like how people are disagreeing with my comment because they don’t understand 6 =/= 5. It’s just a way to restrict power beyond those paths. A year down the line it’ll be a lot easier to plow through those paths with 6* R3 and R4 than 5* R3-5. That’s probably why.

    I don't think that is the reason, or those paths wouldn't have a minimum prerequisite, they'd have a lock. In other words, you're required to bring some 5* champs, but you aren't limited to *only* bringing 5* champs. A hard limit would limit power for the future, but a minimum prereq doesn't really.

    The reason is almost certainly the obvious, which is that the gates force players to build more diverse rosters. People keep tacking things onto the end like "to force people to spend" or whatever, but in this case this is likely an end, not a means to an end. The game's progress is focused in large part on roster development which is two-dimensional: you can grow roster wider and you can grow it "taller" via rank ups. A lot of players believe the "correct" way to play the game is to focus on taller to the point of ignoring wider. Find "the best" champs and rank them up as high as possible, and then use them to take on everything. The structure of the game - which started out extremely simple - allowed for that. The game is placing gates like this to increase the need to go wider as much as taller, so the roster structure is more pyramid and less tower. The game has been moving in that direction since 12.0.

    It is a completely arbitrary requirement, but only in the sense that all the "winners" of the roster lottery also won under purely arbitrary rules. There's no reason why champs like Corvus or Ghost won the beyond-god-tier lottery except purely by the coincidence of the game's current requirements. Forcing players to possess some number of 5* or 6* or specific class champions is no less, and also no more arbitrary than needing the highest burst damage or the anything else.
    While I somewhat agree with you, you dont 'require' ghost or corvus for any content. Hell you can complete every single game mode without any beyond god tier champs. This content requires you to have a certain roster, you dont have much leeway and there are no benefits to adhering to those requirements and only negatives if you dont.
    I didn't say you needed either. I simply said that the game incentivizes their use due to the nature of combat in this game, which is a set of made up rules and mechanics for a game. Those are completely arbitrary: it is possible to make combat mechanics that does not incentivize those features (in fact in many MMOs burst damage is almost worthless most of the time unless it is ridiculous).

    Simply because of the way the original devs chose to make combat, the game encourages the use of some champs and discourages the use of others. That is no more or less arbitrary than any arbitrary decision about who you can use and not use on a specific map. I'm not saying map restrictions are the same thing as champion utility. I'm only saying they are equally arbitrary.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,678 Guardian
    V1PER1987 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    V1PER1987 said:

    Lol I like how people are disagreeing with my comment because they don’t understand 6 =/= 5. It’s just a way to restrict power beyond those paths. A year down the line it’ll be a lot easier to plow through those paths with 6* R3 and R4 than 5* R3-5. That’s probably why.

    I don't think that is the reason, or those paths wouldn't have a minimum prerequisite, they'd have a lock. In other words, you're required to bring some 5* champs, but you aren't limited to *only* bringing 5* champs. A hard limit would limit power for the future, but a minimum prereq doesn't really.

    The reason is almost certainly the obvious, which is that the gates force players to build more diverse rosters. People keep tacking things onto the end like "to force people to spend" or whatever, but in this case this is likely an end, not a means to an end. The game's progress is focused in large part on roster development which is two-dimensional: you can grow roster wider and you can grow it "taller" via rank ups. A lot of players believe the "correct" way to play the game is to focus on taller to the point of ignoring wider. Find "the best" champs and rank them up as high as possible, and then use them to take on everything. The structure of the game - which started out extremely simple - allowed for that. The game is placing gates like this to increase the need to go wider as much as taller, so the roster structure is more pyramid and less tower. The game has been moving in that direction since 12.0.

    It is a completely arbitrary requirement, but only in the sense that all the "winners" of the roster lottery also won under purely arbitrary rules. There's no reason why champs like Corvus or Ghost won the beyond-god-tier lottery except purely by the coincidence of the game's current requirements. Forcing players to possess some number of 5* or 6* or specific class champions is no less, and also no more arbitrary than needing the highest burst damage or the anything else.
    You gotta start making tl;dr sentences at the end or be more succinct. I can’t read multiple paragraphs every single time on every comment of mine that you respond to.
    The very first sentence does in fact summarize the initial point succinctly. The rest discusses further, which you can choose to read or not read.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,575 ★★★★★
    The answer is actually quite simple. The requirement is a certain number of 5*s, of a particular Class. That's what's required. Not the equivalent in a higher Rarity. Different Rarities altogether. It's not really about money, or any other implication similar. You can't fit a square peg into a round hole. (Unless said square peg is much smaller than said hole but....)
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 12,825 Guardian
    klobberintyme said:

    Hey, turns out you can't bring in a 6☆ to the featured 4☆ arena either. Turns out only 4 and 5 ☆ champs are eligible, even though 6 > 5 and 4.

    That was gonna be my point as well (or half of it anyways).

    Think the original premise of OP was that gates should be 5* OR ABOVE.

    But as @klobberintyme points out, Arena can't just use any “OR ABOVE” hero's, they are specified as only certain Star-Rarity entry.

    Although better correlation for Arena would be WHY CAN'T I USE SPECIFIED STAR LEVEL “OR BELOW” for Hero Arenas, sort of like the 2-day CAT Arenas. It’s just the way they designed and want it to be.
  • Ultra8529Ultra8529 Member Posts: 526 ★★★
    SummonerNR said:

    klobberintyme said:

    Hey, turns out you can't bring in a 6☆ to the featured 4☆ arena either. Turns out only 4 and 5 ☆ champs are eligible, even though 6 > 5 and 4.

    That was gonna be my point as well (or half of it anyways).

    Think the original premise of OP was that gates should be 5* OR ABOVE.

    But as @klobberintyme points out, Arena can't just use any “OR ABOVE” hero's, they are specified as only certain Star-Rarity entry.

    Although better correlation for Arena would be WHY CAN'T I USE SPECIFIED STAR LEVEL “OR BELOW” for Hero Arenas, sort of like the 2-day CAT Arenas. It’s just the way they designed and want it to be.
    The comparison with arenas is not helpful because a 6* in a 4* arena would obviously skew the scales - in that arena, you want a certain restriction on the competition - the players with a bigger 5*/6* roster are encouraged to head to the bigger arenas.

    That logic should not apply to an event quest. The game should not be forcing a player to bring in weaker champs when he has a stronger option. I think that is the gripe over this design. When a gate prevents you from bringing in a 6* as a substitute for a 5*, that is poor game design since it is giving you two poor choices: (1) go in with a weaker champ than one you currently have (ie, your 5* instead of the 6* you have), or (2) waste resources ranking that 5* to a r4 minimum so that it is on par with the 6* (which you already have and therefore makes that rank up a waste of resources).
  • SummonerNRSummonerNR Member, Guardian Posts: 12,825 Guardian
    That's why I reversed the comparison for Arena to be OR BELOW. If the arguement is why the restrictions, then why shouldn't I be able to bring all my AntMan (ie, previous F4 Event Points) into the same Feature 5* Arena (no matter if it is my 2* or 3* Antman), Points won't be skewed (except would be easier to do Final sandbagging before Streak).

    But point being, even though that would make sense, they don't do it that way, and so they can dictate a similar thought to Gates too.
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Member Posts: 11,598 ★★★★★
    They should allow 6 stars from a less bs perspective, but a 6* isn’t a 5 star
  • shadow_lurker22shadow_lurker22 Member Posts: 3,245 ★★★★★
    Because 6*s are not 5*s 🤔
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,068 ★★★★★
    Tehsigzorz said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    ContestChamp said:

    Let's say we all agree to bend over and take it for Act 6.2... get to a gate that requires a minimum of 4 class 5*....why would a 6* not count towards this requirement? If I have a R2 6*, I should not be forced to use a lessor version. This is just dumb.

    Why does $1 not equal $10's? Because they aren't the same....
    If a water bottle costs $1 then you can also pay for the bottle using the $10 and get the change, they arent the same but on is a derivative of the other
    That is a different scenario completely. Your scenario would be- a water bottle costs $10's. I have a $1 bill i can use instead.
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