Are we ever gonna get more levels? Masteries? Mastery points?

Graydrox

Whododo872 said:

Graydrox said:

Can you give an example Grounded wisdom?

I think what he’s getting at is that adding too many more levels (namely mastery points) could end up being too good. Full assassin, deep wounds, suicides, willpower, and all the stun abilities, maybe with MD on top could make some characters MUCH more powerful than intended. And adding more masteries could cause balance issues, as they’d either add useless masteries (probably not) or desirable ones which many players will likely want/need for some battles, say maybe degeneration damage resistance or something like that, something players would want to invest in. It’d upset the current system if done wrong, so they’re probably not gonna bother for a while because of how hard it’d be to get it right and not add a totally new circle to meta hell

The balance issues need to be worked around by Kabam. That should not be an issue that keeps the players from expanding.

GroundedWisdom

Graydrox said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Well, there is a set amount that allows a variety of setups. Those setups are limited. If you increase Mastery Points, those setups become potentially more powerful. That affects everything from Attack to Defense to PI. It can have an effect on everything from the Arena to content. It's a bit more complex than just adding more.

Ok, I understand the mismatches that can occur If an alliance of low levels fight and alliance of level 70s and there masteries are just too much to handle. But that should not even be a likely situation in the first place.

War needs to be fixed. It needs to have a tiered system just like everything else. Normal, heroic, master, uncollected and cavalier. But that's a different topic that I can share ideas about.

The fact of the matter is that players should be able to gain levels beyond 60
Maybe the new levels are attained at a much slower rate than previous. That's fine. But still players should have that to look forward to.

The game is expanding is many ways. So is the skill of the players and the story material. Why would something else that a player had gotten used to expanding all of a sudden lock for good?

Another aspect to think about is the players who just aren't that good at the game. If anything, the expanded masteries and energy will give them something else to set them apart from players who have only played for a year.

I know there is a delicate balance to the game, but they are gonna have to give veteran players some kind of advantage outside of skill over the newer players.

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

DalBot

GroundedWisdom said:

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

You are so concerned about radical changes and "meta", yet I can destroy your entire logic with two words: Cavalier Status

GroundedWisdom

Even in games such as Diablo 3, where you reach Level 70 and amass Paragon, the higher you go in Paragon, the more it takes to reach the next level. There has to be a slowing down factor for more advanced Players. Progress should be fastest in the beginning. Otherwise you end up with a system people can't cope in starting out.

GroundedWisdom

DalBot said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

You are so concerned about radical changes and "meta", yet I can destroy your entire logic with two words: Cavalier Status

Tell me, how does Cavalier Status factor into anything I said? You earn the ability to buy a small percentage chance for a 6* in a Crystal?

DalBot

GroundedWisdom said:

DalBot said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

You are so concerned about radical changes and "meta", yet I can destroy your entire logic with two words: Cavalier Status

Tell me, how does Cavalier Status factor into anything I said? You earn the ability to buy a small percentage chance for a 6* in a Crystal?

Riiiiiight

GroundedWisdom

I don't think you even know what you're arguing. Either that, or that's a Strawman.
Masteries and Mastery Points have nothing to do with Cavalier-level Players earning Cavalier-level Rewards. Once again, you seem to be hyper-focusing on Rewards when I'm talking about the effect of changing values with new Mastery Points. If you're trying to convince me that my point about progress being faster in the beginning is wrong, you're coming up short. Progress within the game is faster at the beginning and slower as you progress. At any point, you can potentially speed up that progress by spending. That isn't a natural aspect to progress, as per what I'm discussing. It takes longer to amass 6*s organically. "Well Cavalier people can buy 6*s so there's no balance.".....is not a statement that takes anything into perspective. Just a focus on what they can get that others can't. Nevermind the difference in requirements at that stage. You're going to have to take a step back to see what I'm saying.

GroundedWisdom

They literally just increased the availability at that level because we're entering the next stage in 6* availability. That also goes hand-in-hand with the new requirements for people playing at that stage. If what I'm saying wasn't true, no one would ever go from Level 1 to Level 60, much less be able to achieve the various Titles and points of growth. Yet we see people do it all the time. They're all achievable because there's an overall balance that takes into account where someone is at.

Graydrox

GroundedWisdom said:

Graydrox said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Well, there is a set amount that allows a variety of setups. Those setups are limited. If you increase Mastery Points, those setups become potentially more powerful. That affects everything from Attack to Defense to PI. It can have an effect on everything from the Arena to content. It's a bit more complex than just adding more.

Ok, I understand the mismatches that can occur If an alliance of low levels fight and alliance of level 70s and there masteries are just too much to handle. But that should not even be a likely situation in the first place.

War needs to be fixed. It needs to have a tiered system just like everything else. Normal, heroic, master, uncollected and cavalier. But that's a different topic that I can share ideas about.

The fact of the matter is that players should be able to gain levels beyond 60
Maybe the new levels are attained at a much slower rate than previous. That's fine. But still players should have that to look forward to.

The game is expanding is many ways. So is the skill of the players and the story material. Why would something else that a player had gotten used to expanding all of a sudden lock for good?

Another aspect to think about is the players who just aren't that good at the game. If anything, the expanded masteries and energy will give them something else to set them apart from players who have only played for a year.

I know there is a delicate balance to the game, but they are gonna have to give veteran players some kind of advantage outside of skill over the newer players.

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

First off, just like every other game that has come before it, the path to achieve a higher level will be easier because of the way increased rewards by the game to push them to a higher level. And this is what is happening in mcoc too. 5 star shards are very easy to acquire now. But, what are they giving to vets for all of their effort on the game over years? Nothing except having newer players approaching their level of power at an increasing rate.

Vets should receive SOME advantages because they are vets. Just like people who have been playing for a year have countless advantages over people who are brand new. But yes, the rate of advantage gain should slow to a crawl, just like the rate of leveling up higher level champs slows.

And yes it will mess with the meta but that happens in every game when an expansion is released.

The game will find balance again and all things will be good.

GroundedWisdom

Graydrox said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Graydrox said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Well, there is a set amount that allows a variety of setups. Those setups are limited. If you increase Mastery Points, those setups become potentially more powerful. That affects everything from Attack to Defense to PI. It can have an effect on everything from the Arena to content. It's a bit more complex than just adding more.

Ok, I understand the mismatches that can occur If an alliance of low levels fight and alliance of level 70s and there masteries are just too much to handle. But that should not even be a likely situation in the first place.

War needs to be fixed. It needs to have a tiered system just like everything else. Normal, heroic, master, uncollected and cavalier. But that's a different topic that I can share ideas about.

The fact of the matter is that players should be able to gain levels beyond 60
Maybe the new levels are attained at a much slower rate than previous. That's fine. But still players should have that to look forward to.

The game is expanding is many ways. So is the skill of the players and the story material. Why would something else that a player had gotten used to expanding all of a sudden lock for good?

Another aspect to think about is the players who just aren't that good at the game. If anything, the expanded masteries and energy will give them something else to set them apart from players who have only played for a year.

I know there is a delicate balance to the game, but they are gonna have to give veteran players some kind of advantage outside of skill over the newer players.

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

First off, just like every other game that has come before it, the path to achieve a higher level will be easier because of the way increased rewards by the game to push them to a higher level. And this is what is happening in mcoc too. 5 star shards are very easy to acquire now. But, what are they giving to vets for all of their effort on the game over years? Nothing except having newer players approaching their level of power at an increasing rate.

Vets should receive SOME advantages because they are vets. Just like people who have been playing for a year have countless advantages over people who are brand new. But yes, the rate of advantage gain should slow to a crawl, just like the rate of leveling up higher level champs slows.

And yes it will mess with the meta but that happens in every game when an expansion is released.

The game will find balance again and all things will be good.

I'm sorry, but that literally makes no sense to me. I find that perspective backwards. I mean that respectfully.

Graydrox

GroundedWisdom said:

Graydrox said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Graydrox said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Well, there is a set amount that allows a variety of setups. Those setups are limited. If you increase Mastery Points, those setups become potentially more powerful. That affects everything from Attack to Defense to PI. It can have an effect on everything from the Arena to content. It's a bit more complex than just adding more.

Ok, I understand the mismatches that can occur If an alliance of low levels fight and alliance of level 70s and there masteries are just too much to handle. But that should not even be a likely situation in the first place.

War needs to be fixed. It needs to have a tiered system just like everything else. Normal, heroic, master, uncollected and cavalier. But that's a different topic that I can share ideas about.

The fact of the matter is that players should be able to gain levels beyond 60
Maybe the new levels are attained at a much slower rate than previous. That's fine. But still players should have that to look forward to.

The game is expanding is many ways. So is the skill of the players and the story material. Why would something else that a player had gotten used to expanding all of a sudden lock for good?

Another aspect to think about is the players who just aren't that good at the game. If anything, the expanded masteries and energy will give them something else to set them apart from players who have only played for a year.

I know there is a delicate balance to the game, but they are gonna have to give veteran players some kind of advantage outside of skill over the newer players.

Where to start. Techically, there's no should involved. The system is maintained and balanced around the existing limitations of Masteries and Points. The fact that it's been the same for a long time doesn't mean it should change by default.
There is more than mismatches to account for. You change the backdrop values, the Meta shifts. That has to be considered and reworked. I would be deeply concerned if they just added more and waited to see how the Meta shifts with it. That's very dangerous programming.
Veteran Players have countless advantages. Those advantages are also in proportion to the level they're playing at. If you're suggesting they should receive perpetual advantages compared to newer Players, that system would be destructive. No one would grow enough to start out or catch up.

First off, just like every other game that has come before it, the path to achieve a higher level will be easier because of the way increased rewards by the game to push them to a higher level. And this is what is happening in mcoc too. 5 star shards are very easy to acquire now. But, what are they giving to vets for all of their effort on the game over years? Nothing except having newer players approaching their level of power at an increasing rate.

Vets should receive SOME advantages because they are vets. Just like people who have been playing for a year have countless advantages over people who are brand new. But yes, the rate of advantage gain should slow to a crawl, just like the rate of leveling up higher level champs slows.

And yes it will mess with the meta but that happens in every game when an expansion is released.

The game will find balance again and all things will be good.

I'm sorry, but that literally makes no sense to me. I find that perspective backwards. I mean that respectfully.

I appreciate your kindness to my possible idiotic response, but I don't know what is backwards to you. Can you elaborate?

GroundedWisdom

I didn't say it was idiotic. I'm not that rude. Lol. I just mean it feels backwards because the entire game is designed to provide advantages at different stages of growth.

DalBot

The mental gymnastics are astounding

GroundedWisdom

That's not mental gymnastics. Those advantages are to scale. When you're looking at a 6* at Level 1, maybe that seems like a great advantage. At Cavalier, not the same.

GroundedWisdom

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I didn't say it was idiotic. I'm not that rude. Lol. I just mean it feels backwards because the entire game is designed to provide advantages at different stages of growth.

Its also evolved in a way way that has reduced the sample size of people in the lowest and highest brackets by making growth easier in early stages and harder in the middle, so creating another bonus for middling players would be in their financial interest.

I'd say it's been a steady balancing of all areas. There have been increases overall.

DalBot

GroundedWisdom said:

That's not mental gymnastics. Those advantages are to scale. When you're looking at a 6* at Level 1, maybe that seems like a great advantage. At Cavalier, not the same.

And yet when you're looking at a profile with 3 sig 200 and one sig 155 6*, all at R2, it shows you the imbalance present when you hit cavalier status.

But there is a higher profit gained, so cool I guess.

GroundedWisdom

DalBot said:

GroundedWisdom said:

That's not mental gymnastics. Those advantages are to scale. When you're looking at a 6* at Level 1, maybe that seems like a great advantage. At Cavalier, not the same.

And yet when you're looking at a profile with 3 sig 200 and one sig 155 6*, all at R2, it shows you the imbalance present when you hit cavalier status.

But there is a higher profit gained, so cool I guess.

Imbalance, because they have it and others don't? Right. This sounds more like a personal issue with people spending than a debate about balance.

roberto94

Probably could make it easy to adding a new mastery to further power up another way for suicide increase damage

Bboychobo

I've also said so many times that the difficulty of the game is progressing .. with new nodes new champs... yet we are unable to go beyond 5/65 ( ok and 2/35 ) so they are ignoring it coz we die more that way.. i think we need more mastery points not just new mastery ....

Seraphion

doctorb said:

We should be able to recover mastery points one at a time instead of clearing the entire board

Its like we are in the 19th century for interface handling. Time for a QOL update

roberto94

Bboychobo said:

I've also said so many times that the difficulty of the game is progressing .. with new nodes new champs... yet we are unable to go beyond 5/65 ( ok and 2/35 ) so they are ignoring it coz we die more that way.. i think we need more mastery points not just new mastery ....

Now that’s true. We have good enough of mastery to help us out more. We just need more points per level.

Wubbie075

I think a lot of ppl would be happy if additional levels did not even include additional mastery points but provided marginally increased storage capacity, and possibly resource awards (or maybe shards?).

Would that break the game?

GroundedWisdom

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Fredhorst23 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

I didn't say it was idiotic. I'm not that rude. Lol. I just mean it feels backwards because the entire game is designed to provide advantages at different stages of growth.

Its also evolved in a way way that has reduced the sample size of people in the lowest and highest brackets by making growth easier in early stages and harder in the middle, so creating another bonus for middling players would be in their financial interest.

I'd say it's been a steady balancing of all areas. There have been increases overall.

It clearly hasn't been steadily balancing for the average, medium level player. I'm on every day, and I'm a casual player. I've watched new players catch up faster and faster as time goes on. The mid level player base has grown at a rate surpassing the other tiers in my observation.

When you say casual, what do you mean by that? If you're logging on everyday and doing a small amount, people playing more are going to bypass you. That's pretty much time invested.

GroundedWisdom

I will agree that there are certain points in the game that progress seems to plateau, but there are steps in the game to overcome to get to the next level. It might be Ranking Materials, it might be content, it might even be joining a stronger Alliance. I don't believe people becomes stuck in the mid-range unless there's something missing.