Hard defenders should not be allowed as opponents in arena

Human_Iceberg2Human_Iceberg2 Member Posts: 282 ★★★
in General Discussion
I know the title is confusing, but I’m talking about champions that are really difficult defenders and cannot be knocked out without a specific champ. For example, I just lost my arena streak to a korg and Hyperion (arena AI is super passive and waits for special 3). Other opponents like havok, korg, hyperion, magik, and mephisto are also annoying and almost impossible to beat without luck or a certain champ.
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  • Liss_Bliss_Liss_Bliss_ Member Posts: 1,779 ★★★★★
    Human_Iceberg2 said:

    @UmbertoDelRio I play pretty well. Korg reflecting damage back is not something you can play around. You cannot completely prevent magik or mephisto from triggering their limbo or incineration. Hyperion can’t be goaded into throwing a special 1 or 2. Why are you criticizing my skill instead of seeing why I made this post?

    Magik - stun the attack before she would trigger if you have that mastery
    Mephistop - stay away from him
    Hyperion - watch the most recent video on how to bait him. It’s easy
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Member Posts: 3,916 ★★★★★
    I think a case could be made for leaving them out of the beginner and intermediate arenas but by the time people are in the veteran they are generally aware of most champs abilities
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  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,058 ★★★★★
    Arena isnt meant to be a "gimmie" piece of content.
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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    Human_Iceberg2 said:

    @UmbertoDelRio I play pretty well. Korg reflecting damage back is not something you can play around. You cannot completely prevent magik or mephisto from triggering their limbo or incineration. Hyperion can’t be goaded into throwing a special 1 or 2. Why are you criticizing my skill instead of seeing why I made this post?

    You made this post because you think some fights are unwinnable. But the fact you say you cannot "play around" with Korg's reflected damage suggests your judgment of what is and is not winnable is not well-informed, so it is worth examining *why* you think some fights are unfair, before tackling the question of eliminating unfair fights from the arena.

    Korg only reflects damage when hit with medium, heavy, or special attacks that make contact, and only when his rock shield is up. That means you can completely avoid reflected damage by using light attack combos with any attacker until you bring down his shield.

    And in the arena where you aren't going to have a huge disadvantage through nodes Hyperion is not a hard fight to win. First of all, you can bait specials out of Hyperion most of the time - actually all of the time with enough skill, although sometimes it can be extremely difficult. And second, in the arena usually Hyperion cannot kill you with his special three attack unless he has a lot of furies or cosmic charges. So you can just push him to SP3 and eat it, and then continue the fight in most cases.

    And while you cannot prevent Mephisto's incineration aura without certain counters, you can simply choose to not attack into him when he has it up if you aren't incinerate immune.

    I'd say I'm a better than average arena grinder but I'm not perfect, and I don't think there are unwinnable match ups in the arena. Not Korg, certainly not Magik, and not even Hyperion.
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  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    Rockypantherx said:

    I think a case could be made for leaving them out of the beginner and intermediate arenas but by the time people are in the veteran they are generally aware of most champs abilities

    Actually, I think the opposite is true. I don't think most players are generally aware of and capable of fighting most champs even past veteran status - which is something that just expires after a certain amount of time, not game progress. And because most players are not really very good with most harder defenders, I think they should be constantly exposed to them so they actually have a chance to get better at them. It is the arena that made me a better fighter against Spiderman, Mordo, Nightcrawler, MODOK, IMIW, and so on. I have to face them constantly, so I simply have to get better at them. And since I only need two wins in the arena, I usually have one death to give to trying out new tactics against newer defenders.

    Practice makes perfect, and the arena gives a lot of practice if you're an arena grinder.
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  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    It seems like there is an IMIW in every other match-up. He’s not that hard with the right champ, but you probably aren’t going to have the right champ in arena. I have to say, the mutant champs vs. IMIW have been rough.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    mbrace said:

    It seems like there is an IMIW in every other match-up. He’s not that hard with the right champ, but you probably aren’t going to have the right champ in arena. I have to say, the mutant champs vs. IMIW have been rough.

    My standard reply:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6I_cd_TNXU
    This would be a death match level match up if it happened in the arena.
  • RockypantherxRockypantherx Member Posts: 3,916 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    I think a case could be made for leaving them out of the beginner and intermediate arenas but by the time people are in the veteran they are generally aware of most champs abilities

    Actually, I think the opposite is true. I don't think most players are generally aware of and capable of fighting most champs even past veteran status - which is something that just expires after a certain amount of time, not game progress. And because most players are not really very good with most harder defenders, I think they should be constantly exposed to them so they actually have a chance to get better at them. It is the arena that made me a better fighter against Spiderman, Mordo, Nightcrawler, MODOK, IMIW, and so on. I have to face them constantly, so I simply have to get better at them. And since I only need two wins in the arena, I usually have one death to give to trying out new tactics against newer defenders.

    Practice makes perfect, and the arena gives a lot of practice if you're an arena grinder.
    It’s a good place to practise sure, but newer players who won’t come across these sorts of horrible defenders for a while won’t know their abilities as you can’t look at them in arena. For example, a new player might go up against IMIW. They get parried when he hits 4 armour stacks. They realise this and make sure to back off when he hits that. But the pattern changes at 15% to 1 armour up which may leave them wondering what happened.

    If they allowed you to check the abilities I would absolutely agree but as it stands I think it’s too difficult for newer players in arena
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Member Posts: 36,573 ★★★★★
    mbrace said:

    It seems like there is an IMIW in every other match-up. He’s not that hard with the right champ, but you probably aren’t going to have the right champ in arena. I have to say, the mutant champs vs. IMIW have been rough.

    Actually, he's my most frustrating Fight in the Arena for this very reason. Not bad when you have the right Champs. Hell if you don't. His AI is a pain. He either Auto-Blocks or bypasses just about every move you try.
    Having said that, I don't agree that these Champs shouldn't be in the Arena. The Arena is comprised of who brings what Teams, with the exception of Kang and Thanos. All Champs are allowed.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,676 Guardian
    Rockypantherx said:

    It’s a good place to practise sure, but newer players who won’t come across these sorts of horrible defenders for a while won’t know their abilities as you can’t look at them in arena.

    I think the solution to that problem is to make the champions ability sheet reachable from the arena. It is hard to know when someone will come across hard defenders: things like the cinematic crystal come along and suddenly everyone is facing IMIW in literally every war and dropping dead immediately because they had no exposure to him, and suddenly everyone had to go to crash course duel school.
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