Does a node effect apply after the attacker’s abilities in AW?

gralterist

Hello community!

I have a question regarding AW nodes. I took path D on T2 AW. The first node, that has the unstoppable extended duration + increased ability accuracy by 75%, was a juggernaut. I went in with she-hulk. Based on she- hulk’s description, unstoppable and evade effects’ chance to trigger is reduced by 100%. And the million dollar question is: which effect is applied first? She-hulk’s or the node’s?

Thank you in advance for your input!

gralterist

I also had this experience with spider Gwen on the biohazard node on section 2 path C. The node gives 60% chance on evade proc. I went in with corvus and proxima. Got the charge from evade but she still evaded. It all makes sense if the node is activated last, but to actually believe that, it would make KABAM preeeetty underhanded, to be honest, IMO. What’s your take on this? @Kabam Lyra

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

DNA3000

gralterist said:

Hello community!

I have a question regarding AW nodes. I took path D on T2 AW. The first node, that has the unstoppable extended duration + increased ability accuracy by 75%, was a juggernaut. I went in with she-hulk. Based on she- hulk’s description, unstoppable and evade effects’ chance to trigger is reduced by 100%. And the million dollar question is: which effect is applied first? She-hulk’s or the node’s?

Thank you in advance for your input!

The short answer is it doesn't matter. The reasons are longish and complicated to explain, but the shortest answer is that buffs and debuffs in this game are generally linear not multiplicative. And that means when you see ability accuracy, which is something that itself is expressed as a percentage, being buffed or debuffed by numbers that are expressed in percentages themselves, those are being added and subtracted, not multiplied.

In other words, in the ambiguous language of the game, ten percent more than 5 percent is 15 percent, not 5.5 percent.

Technically, most of the time the game says "increased by 75%" what they actually mean is "increased by 75 percentage points." But most people, and this includes nearly all game developers, do not use these terms correctly, and thus confusingly.

CoatHang3r

DNA3000 said:

gralterist said:

Hello community!

I have a question regarding AW nodes. I took path D on T2 AW. The first node, that has the unstoppable extended duration + increased ability accuracy by 75%, was a juggernaut. I went in with she-hulk. Based on she- hulk’s description, unstoppable and evade effects’ chance to trigger is reduced by 100%. And the million dollar question is: which effect is applied first? She-hulk’s or the node’s?

Thank you in advance for your input!

The short answer is it doesn't matter. The reasons are longish and complicated to explain, but the shortest answer is that buffs and debuffs in this game are generally linear not multiplicative. And that means when you see ability accuracy, which is something that itself is expressed as a percentage, being buffed or debuffed by numbers that are expressed in percentages themselves, those are being added and subtracted, not multiplied.

In other words, in the ambiguous language of the game, ten percent more than 5 percent is 15 percent, not 5.5 percent.

Technically, most of the time the game says "increased by 75%" what they actually mean is "increased by 75 percentage points." But most people, and this includes nearly all game developers, do not use these terms correctly, and thus confusingly.

Most +% are multiplicative and are usually only additive when used in conjunction with “by a flat %”. By and large most of this is untrue to what the game does.

DNA3000

CoatHang3r said:

DNA3000 said:

gralterist said:

Hello community!

I have a question regarding AW nodes. I took path D on T2 AW. The first node, that has the unstoppable extended duration + increased ability accuracy by 75%, was a juggernaut. I went in with she-hulk. Based on she- hulk’s description, unstoppable and evade effects’ chance to trigger is reduced by 100%. And the million dollar question is: which effect is applied first? She-hulk’s or the node’s?

Thank you in advance for your input!

The short answer is it doesn't matter. The reasons are longish and complicated to explain, but the shortest answer is that buffs and debuffs in this game are generally linear not multiplicative. And that means when you see ability accuracy, which is something that itself is expressed as a percentage, being buffed or debuffed by numbers that are expressed in percentages themselves, those are being added and subtracted, not multiplied.

In other words, in the ambiguous language of the game, ten percent more than 5 percent is 15 percent, not 5.5 percent.

Technically, most of the time the game says "increased by 75%" what they actually mean is "increased by 75 percentage points." But most people, and this includes nearly all game developers, do not use these terms correctly, and thus confusingly.

Most +% are multiplicative and are usually only additive when used in conjunction with “by a flat %”. By and large most of this is untrue to what the game does.

Most +% is multiplicative because most +anything is being applied to a flat value. But when +% is being applied to something that is itself expressed in the game as a percentage value, it is not always multiplicative. Sometimes it is additive, and sometimes multiplicative, and most of the time I tend to bet on additive unless context makes that nonsensical.

For example, Black Widow's subtlety chance is stated to be "increased by 15% against Science champions." This was determined long ago to be an additive bonus. Parry is stated to reduce damage by "an additional 25%" which is an additive bonus to block damage mitigation percentage. And in situations where the game says that an ability accuracy is "reduced by 100%" as with She Hulk in this thread or with Spider Gwen, say, if those were multiplicative then that would reduce ability accuracy to zero, and no amount of multiplicative accuracy increase would ever be able to change that value to anything other than zero.

There are times when percentage effects are multiplicative, but they all tend to seem obvious in context. For example, returning to Spider-Gwen when she's stated to have "+550% evade ability accuracy" that seems obviously multiplicative. And in situations where stacking is generally not an issue, percentages are more likely to be multiplicative than additive.

And this reminds me why it is better to avoid short answers to complex mechanical questions, even if they exceed the read buffers of many readers.

Whathappened

Either way they made war less fun, it hasn't been much fun since they changed the map to start with but now I dread it.

Patchie93

Best answer for the unstoppable path is CapIw since he can just get rid of the unstoppable no problem

CoatHang3r

DNA3000 said:

CoatHang3r said:

DNA3000 said:

gralterist said:

Hello community!

I have a question regarding AW nodes. I took path D on T2 AW. The first node, that has the unstoppable extended duration + increased ability accuracy by 75%, was a juggernaut. I went in with she-hulk. Based on she- hulk’s description, unstoppable and evade effects’ chance to trigger is reduced by 100%. And the million dollar question is: which effect is applied first? She-hulk’s or the node’s?

Thank you in advance for your input!

The short answer is it doesn't matter. The reasons are longish and complicated to explain, but the shortest answer is that buffs and debuffs in this game are generally linear not multiplicative. And that means when you see ability accuracy, which is something that itself is expressed as a percentage, being buffed or debuffed by numbers that are expressed in percentages themselves, those are being added and subtracted, not multiplied.

In other words, in the ambiguous language of the game, ten percent more than 5 percent is 15 percent, not 5.5 percent.

Technically, most of the time the game says "increased by 75%" what they actually mean is "increased by 75 percentage points." But most people, and this includes nearly all game developers, do not use these terms correctly, and thus confusingly.

Most +% are multiplicative and are usually only additive when used in conjunction with “by a flat %”. By and large most of this is untrue to what the game does.

Most +% is multiplicative because most +anything is being applied to a flat value. But when +% is being applied to something that is itself expressed in the game as a percentage value, it is not always multiplicative. Sometimes it is additive, and sometimes multiplicative, and most of the time I tend to bet on additive unless context makes that nonsensical.

For example, Black Widow's subtlety chance is stated to be "increased by 15% against Science champions." This was determined long ago to be an additive bonus. Parry is stated to reduce damage by "an additional 25%" which is an additive bonus to block damage mitigation percentage. And in situations where the game says that an ability accuracy is "reduced by 100%" as with She Hulk in this thread or with Spider Gwen, say, if those were multiplicative then that would reduce ability accuracy to zero, and no amount of multiplicative accuracy increase would ever be able to change that value to anything other than zero.

There are times when percentage effects are multiplicative, but they all tend to seem obvious in context. For example, returning to Spider-Gwen when she's stated to have "+550% evade ability accuracy" that seems obviously multiplicative. And in situations where stacking is generally not an issue, percentages are more likely to be multiplicative than additive.

And this reminds me why it is better to avoid short answers to complex mechanical questions, even if they exceed the read buffers of many readers.

Audit all other +% and you’ll find the are by and large multiplicitve, gj cherry picking the exceptions to make a rule.

P.S. BW was not datamined, Adora explicitly stated it to be additive.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

CoatHang3r

Haji_Saab said:

Let's just say AAR is always additive in this game up to now.

This was tested and reported extensively on the +20% AAR nodes when BW had 100% AAR on her and spidey evaded on that node or she still got some damage from Electro.

Same is the case here. 100% innate ability + 75% enhanced AA - 100% SHe-Hulk AAR = 75% unstoppable chance to proc

Or it modifies base stats similar to how the attack modifier and others like inequity, recoil, poise etc works on base stats.

Seraphion

DNA3000 said:

gralterist said:

Hello community!

I have a question regarding AW nodes. I took path D on T2 AW. The first node, that has the unstoppable extended duration + increased ability accuracy by 75%, was a juggernaut. I went in with she-hulk. Based on she- hulk’s description, unstoppable and evade effects’ chance to trigger is reduced by 100%. And the million dollar question is: which effect is applied first? She-hulk’s or the node’s?

Thank you in advance for your input!

The short answer is it doesn't matter. The reasons are longish and complicated to explain, but the shortest answer is that buffs and debuffs in this game are generally linear not multiplicative. And that means when you see ability accuracy, which is something that itself is expressed as a percentage, being buffed or debuffed by numbers that are expressed in percentages themselves, those are being added and subtracted, not multiplied.

In other words, in the ambiguous language of the game, ten percent more than 5 percent is 15 percent, not 5.5 percent.

Technically, most of the time the game says "increased by 75%" what they actually mean is "increased by 75 percentage points." But most people, and this includes nearly all game developers, do not use these terms correctly, and thus confusingly.

That would mean LC would have a 100% stun chance on SP1 if paired with 2 quake.
LC basesstunchance from SP1 = 57% +30% =87% if he applies 3 exaustions.

Quake (4* + 3*) with Hawkeye give + 12% and +15% ability accuracy which would be 114% but 1 of my SP1 didnt trigger stun