Is there an algorithm to rank up and awakening gems?

-sixate- · August 2019

95% of the time you'll get exactly what you need the least. Kabam knows what you need and won't give it to you. Or give it to you after you saved a rank up gem for a year and a half.

A guy in my alliance had this happen. Been saving a R4 tech gem for Starky. Used it on Sentinel for V3. Opened one Cavalier crystal 20 minutes after taking Sentinel to R4. Guess who he pulled? Yep, you guessed correctly, 5* Starky.

Kabam'd

Captain_Nietsch · August 2019

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.

It sure feels like a big coincidence when I'm sitting on a tech 5 star awakening gem (and no good tech-champs to use it on), and then buy another awakening gem on offer, and it also turns out to be tech... (my only 5 star tech at the time was hulk-buster!)

I must be a sucker for bad luck with these kind of pulls since there is no algorithm in action. It happened that way several times I've tried pulling Awakening gems, both 4- and 5-stars. Like the chance of getting the same kind of awakening gem you already have in your inventory are way higher than getting anything else.

But hey... I was once a big X-files fan, so don't blame me for believing some conspiracy theories

Demonzfyre · August 2019

So this is where all the tinfoil in the world went...

Demonzfyre · August 2019

DarkestDestroyer said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.

Im sorry but there is no way the games programming can "read our minds". You are opening a crystal with a 1/6 chance to get a class gem. How exactly would the game know what you want? You aren't upgrading at the same time you are opening them. And in the case of A.Gs many aren't even using them right away since they are waiting for "worthy" champs.

The game knows what you want as much as female knows where she wants to eat when going out.

Demonzfyre · August 2019

Captain_Nietsch said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
It sure feels like a big coincidence when I'm sitting on a tech 5 star awakening gem (and no good tech-champs to use it on), and then buy another awakening gem on offer, and it also turns out to be tech... (my only 5 star tech at the time was hulk-buster!)

I must be a sucker for bad luck with these kind of pulls since there is no algorithm in action. It happened that way several times I've tried pulling Awakening gems, both 4- and 5-stars. Like the chance of getting the same kind of awakening gem you already have in your inventory are way higher than getting anything else.

But hey... I was once a big X-files fan, so don't blame me for believing some conspiracy theories

If you roll a pair of dice and each 1-6 pair is a class type, and you get double 6's twice in a row, is that aliens or just bad luck? Better call Skully and Moulder..

Captain_Nietsch · August 2019

Demonzfyre said:

Captain_Nietsch said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
It sure feels like a big coincidence when I'm sitting on a tech 5 star awakening gem (and no good tech-champs to use it on), and then buy another awakening gem on offer, and it also turns out to be tech... (my only 5 star tech at the time was hulk-buster!)

I must be a sucker for bad luck with these kind of pulls since there is no algorithm in action. It happened that way several times I've tried pulling Awakening gems, both 4- and 5-stars. Like the chance of getting the same kind of awakening gem you already have in your inventory are way higher than getting anything else.

But hey... I was once a big X-files fan, so don't blame me for believing some conspiracy theories
If you roll a pair of dice and each 1-6 pair is a class type, and you get double 6's twice in a row, is that aliens or just bad luck? Better call Skully and Moulder..

If it happens several times, that you pull the same class awakening gem that you already have in your inventory, it's not that strange that you find yourself wondering whether it's just bad luck or something else affecting the result. I haven't felt I've had the money to spare to actually try buying several offers to make the outcome more statistically correct...

But yeah... it's easy to perceive a pattern where there is none, maybe. Then again it wouldn't surprise me that much if there were something more than luck to it.
And... I do believe Scully and Mulder might be busy with other stuff, besides being fictional. So I'll have to go along not knowing the truth that is out there.

And my sense of humor might also be bad and often misses the mark, it seems.

RagamugginGunner · August 2019

Whowasthatmaskedman said:
I had 2 mystic awakening gems, and I purposely used one to anti-kabam myself with a 3rd. What do I pull? Another mystic awakening gem.

Is there an algorithm that makes us get redundancies in these gems? I also got a cosmic 4-5 gem when I definitely don't need it.

What gives boiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii?

100% yes. It sucks. I have 4 Mystic gems right now and every gem I pop is like Russian Roulette.

RagamugginGunner · August 2019

Demonzfyre said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
Im sorry but there is no way the games programming can "read our minds". You are opening a crystal with a 1/6 chance to get a class gem. How exactly would the game know what you want? You aren't upgrading at the same time you are opening them. And in the case of A.Gs many aren't even using them right away since they are waiting for "worthy" champs.

The game knows what you want as much as female knows where she wants to eat when going out.

It's really not that hard to come up with a pretty simple way for the game to give a higher drop rate for items you already have. You just have to think about it for like 2 seconds.

Wubbie075 · August 2019

winterthur said:

JohnLocke117 said:
AG are the ones which always seem to defy RNG. You'll always get the one which ya don't need :-\
It is T4CC for me.

I was raging at the game for giving me 3 mutant T4CC with all **** mutant 4*. I literally had 3 mutant and 0 anything else, the only T4CC I have ever earned on this account because I don't do alliance content. Then I got a 5* Havok and all of a sudden I was happy to have all those catalysts. Things even out.

Whowasthatmaskedman · August 2019

Let's understand that we are all pretty ignorant on this subject. I definitely don't believe people when they immediately dispute your inquiry with "crystal ball" or "psychic powers" topics. Programming is very much a possibility. Anyone who scoffs at the idea matter-of-factly is just a know-it-all.

I half-heartedly asked if there was some coding that would cause this. Why? Because there is a pattern. When there is a pattern, no way is it coincidence. 1 in 6 chance to get 3 mystic awakening gems. Also, what's the chance that I got Wasp twice in a row from a basic crystal. That happened. Out of how many champions?

I could also ask, do they weight 2015, 2016, 2017 champs higher than 2018 and 2019 champs? That could be possible. Weighting probability has absolutely been done and continues to be done. You know they have a backend tag because of the rank up gems that specify the year the champions were released.

Sometimes, simply bringing it up can cause a change. Let's not act like know-it-alls and debunk questions with goofiness.

GroundedWisdom · August 2019

RagamugginGunner said:

Demonzfyre said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
Im sorry but there is no way the games programming can "read our minds". You are opening a crystal with a 1/6 chance to get a class gem. How exactly would the game know what you want? You aren't upgrading at the same time you are opening them. And in the case of A.Gs many aren't even using them right away since they are waiting for "worthy" champs.

The game knows what you want as much as female knows where she wants to eat when going out.
It's really not that hard to come up with a pretty simple way for the game to give a higher drop rate for items you already have. You just have to think about it for like 2 seconds.

You could devise a way to do many things if you twist logic. That doesn't mean it's real. There is no weighted algorithm. I guarantee they don't care what Class we pull. Not anywhere near as much as we do. People take things way too personally. They think the game is made to withhold things from them. Kabam doesn't care what we pull. Not unless it's somehow not supposed to be pulled, or breaking the game somehow.

GroundedWisdom · August 2019

Whowasthatmaskedman said:
Let's understand that we are all pretty ignorant on this subject. I definitely don't believe people when they immediately dispute your inquiry with "crystal ball" or "psychic powers" topics. Programming is very much a possibility. Anyone who scoffs at the idea matter-of-factly is just a know-it-all.

I half-heartedly asked if there was some coding that would cause this. Why? Because there is a pattern. When there is a pattern, no way is it coincidence. 1 in 6 chance to get 3 mystic awakening gems. Also, what's the chance that I got Wasp twice in a row from a basic crystal. That happened. Out of how many champions?

I could also ask, do they weight 2015, 2016, 2017 champs higher than 2018 and 2019 champs? That could be possible. Weighting probability has absolutely been done and continues to be done. You know they have a backend tag because of the rank up gems that specify the year the champions were released.

Sometimes, simply bringing it up can cause a change. Let's not act like know-it-alls and debunk questions with goofiness.

There is no pattern. You have multiples all the time with RNG. Happens with Champs, Gems, anything really. You can have more of one Class, none of others, duplicate outcomes, all of that. RNG doesn't equate to equal distribution.

Demonzfyre · August 2019

RagamugginGunner said:

Demonzfyre said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
Im sorry but there is no way the games programming can "read our minds". You are opening a crystal with a 1/6 chance to get a class gem. How exactly would the game know what you want? You aren't upgrading at the same time you are opening them. And in the case of A.Gs many aren't even using them right away since they are waiting for "worthy" champs.

The game knows what you want as much as female knows where she wants to eat when going out.
It's really not that hard to come up with a pretty simple way for the game to give a higher drop rate for items you already have. You just have to think about it for like 2 seconds.

I'm sure its not but you can't say that's what's happening. What would be their gain in doing that? If that was the case, wouldn't people stop spending on offers if that's really what was happening? I don't have any doubts the drop rates are identical for each class. I also dont buy a lot of tinfoil either.

Demonzfyre · August 2019

Captain_Nietsch said:

Demonzfyre said:

Captain_Nietsch said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
It sure feels like a big coincidence when I'm sitting on a tech 5 star awakening gem (and no good tech-champs to use it on), and then buy another awakening gem on offer, and it also turns out to be tech... (my only 5 star tech at the time was hulk-buster!)

I must be a sucker for bad luck with these kind of pulls since there is no algorithm in action. It happened that way several times I've tried pulling Awakening gems, both 4- and 5-stars. Like the chance of getting the same kind of awakening gem you already have in your inventory are way higher than getting anything else.

But hey... I was once a big X-files fan, so don't blame me for believing some conspiracy theories
If you roll a pair of dice and each 1-6 pair is a class type, and you get double 6's twice in a row, is that aliens or just bad luck? Better call Skully and Moulder..
If it happens several times, that you pull the same class awakening gem that you already have in your inventory, it's not that strange that you find yourself wondering whether it's just bad luck or something else affecting the result. I haven't felt I've had the money to spare to actually try buying several offers to make the outcome more statistically correct... But yeah... it's easy to perceive a pattern where there is none, maybe. Then again it wouldn't surprise me that much if there were something more than luck to it.
And... I do believe Scully and Mulder might be busy with other stuff, besides being fictional. So I'll have to go along not knowing the truth that is out there.

And my sense of humor might also be bad and often misses the mark, it seems.

That theory is about as real as Skully and Mulder are in real life.

DarkestDestroyer · August 2019

DNA3000 said:

Kerneas said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
I'd actually love to see how programmed the rng system is. I know only very basics of programming, but description of the logic operations would be much appreciated amd I think it might help some players (well, myself at least) understand it and stop blaming you for being Psychic
If you've never worked on a game like MCOC, you might be surprised to know that almost all of the game that you'd consider to be "the game" that isn't an art asset (graphics, sound, animation) is actually not "programmed." It is usually created in Excel.

This is how I assume MCOC works (I've never worked on MCOC, so I don't have first hand knowledge), which is how a lot of games like it work. Games like this are actually created in a lot of layers, but for our purposes here there's three: the engine, the customization layer, and the content layer. The engine is what you'd call the "software" - what's "programmed." Actual programmers work on this, although often huge chunks of it are licensed - things like Unity, or the Unreal Engine, etc. The customization layer is all the stuff written on top of the engine, either with code or with scripting languages, and sometimes meta embedded languages. Think of these like Excel macros. Excel is the program, but people who use Excel can create programmy-like macros within their spreadsheets to make them work in certain custom ways.

Then there's the content. Content is a fill-in-the-blank Mad-libs thing. There are spreadsheets that define how champions work, say. To make a new champion you follow the same structure and fill in the right columns with the right data. Some macro tool chain thing then takes the spreadsheet and converts it into the raw data the game actually needs, and then it is loaded into the engine.

Reward tables are just tables in Excel. A 5* AG crystal is probably defined as something like

5_star_ag_crystal
contains: 5_star_ag_reward_table

And then there's the reward table:

5_star_ag_reward_table:
5_star_mystic_awaken 1
5_star_cosmic_awaken 1
5_star_tech_awaken 1
5_star_mutant_awaken 1
5_star_skill_awaken 1
5_star_science_awaken 1

The game has internal logic that says when someone is awarded the 5_star_ag_reward the random reward function picks one reward from its reward table. The rewards are listed with "weights." Each reward has weight 1, so the reward engine adds up the weights and then partitions the random space based on the weights. So there's a 1 out of 6 chance for mystic, a 1 out of 6 chance for cosmic, etc.

If you want a crystal to have a 99% chance of dropping a 4* champ and a 1% chance for 5* champ?

4_5_lottery_ticket:
4_star_basic_champ_reward_table 99
5_star_basic_champ_reward_table 1

Each of those "rewards" is itself a reward table, so the game goes off and does this again for those tables to determine your final reward.

Incidentally, if Kabam was lying about the drops not being straight forward and instead being manipulated by complex algorithms, ever single developer who has ever worked on the spreadsheets that contain reward drops would know this, and all it would take would be one credible person to leak details of this on Reddit. BUT if someone tries to make this up without actual first hand knowledge, they are extremely likely to say something that careful dataminers could verify was false.

Why is it that you seem to have first hand knowledge on everything; and every topic?

You must just have a dictionary and google open at all times.

DarkestDestroyer · August 2019

UmbertoDelRio said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

GroundedWisdom said:

DarkestDestroyer said:

Kabam Miike said:

Kerneas said:
Yes, the algorhytm is sth like this:
1) pick random number from 1-6
2) if you picked 1, class awakening gem is mystic, if you picked 2, class awakening gem is cosmic...
Super simplified, but this is it. There is no conspiracy here, there is no algorithm, there is no way for us to look into your deepest thoughts and desires to see which Class of Gem that you secretly want and make sure we do or don't give you that one.

We're not psychic, though that would be really cool.
You cannot read our minds and see what we crave, but programming can, just like online slots, gambling, whatever, it’s A.I, I believe all games are programmed with some algorithm, and it’s not a bad thing. It’s realistic.

I’m not calling conspiracy, but maybe you don’t know how it’s programmed in some sections of the game, I mean with some monthly events and nodes, 99% think the devs don’t even play test things or think before adding it in.

This has turned into a bad comment, i don’t mean it to be, but even documents have shown you have had algorithms, so it makes sense there will be some.

Nothing against it, my luck is hit and miss, like everyone’s, I went from 1 Crystal to get Patriot, popped the next for a 5* Fury; I got a Mystic AG with no one to use it on, my SS, MS, Mordo, Hood etc are duped r5s/r4s, then I pull Magik (FINALLY!) and got Dorm, 2 decent options.

So I personally think they are active, but so what; it’s a normal thing.
First of all, Miike is more than a Moderator. He has other responsibilities, so he's not just repeating responses.
Secondly, I'm not sure what documents you're referring to. If you mean the Patents that were applied for, that's been explained long ago. Companies apply for as many Patents as they can when starting out. It's even been debunked by Ad0ra as not in use. Yet people still reference them.
There's no algorithm at play. Gems are as close to a true random as the RNG gets. 17% chance at 1 of 6 Classes each roll.
First of all - you are not always correct; nor a spokesman, nor anything to do with Kabam.

I wasn’t even expecting a response, I was just commenting.

It’s strange too because before I did, i seen you in another thread and was going to post my own thread as to why the majority of posts get turned into an argument by yourself.

And here, you have done it again.

I’m not even interested, please just don’t reply to my comments, post your own going by the topic and initial post. Once you have done, just leave it alone.

Please
So you want to spout nonsense in an online forum without getting any kind of response?

Genius.

When the response just tends to turn into an argument, yeah I wouldn’t want one.

CoatHang3r · August 2019

Kobster84 · August 2019

I’m not a conspiracy theorist but damn kabam would it hurt to give me something other then a tech or mystic gem

Kabam Miike · August 2019

Alright everybody, we're going to say this one last time... There is no algorithm, or system, or magic, or psychic powers that change your reward based on what you want/need.

The rewards you get are random, and anybody telling you that isn't true is not your friend.

When we say something is random, it's because it's random. We have nothing to gain from lying, except for a whole lot of trouble if it turns out it wasn't true.

Also, shout out to all of you that have repeatedly called us totally incompetent, but somehow think we're able to create something as complex as this. Means a lot to me.

Is there an algorithm to rank up and awakening gems?

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