No way. You’ve worked too hard for those resources to see them wrecked by irresponsible policies.
What would be a responsible step here is a “hands off” date on these champs—some kind of statute of limitations that says when the team is done with the initial “adjustment” so players can make a meaningful determination about whether the champ is one they want to invest in.
Dr. Zola
There was a date implemented already, and Cull was way past that date - but they decided to "balance" him anyway.
That date is a soft date and will never stop them from balancing the champs after if needed. It also was created after he was already out.
You can try to play word-lawyer anyway you want. By the rules they set themselves, he was safe.
By setting this precedent, why should we believe anything they say anymore?
They never once said they would not change champs outside of the 3 month window. That is something that you implied from their comment.
No way. You’ve worked too hard for those resources to see them wrecked by irresponsible policies.
What would be a responsible step here is a “hands off” date on these champs—some kind of statute of limitations that says when the team is done with the initial “adjustment” so players can make a meaningful determination about whether the champ is one they want to invest in.
Dr. Zola
There was a date implemented already, and Cull was way past that date - but they decided to "balance" him anyway.
That date is a soft date and will never stop them from balancing the champs after if needed. It also was created after he was already out.
A soft date LOL, because you know right, because you got some secret memo saying it was, or you are just smarter than everyone because when they give a date we all think they would stand by it. BTW how did you vote? Would you R5 Namor.
BTW guys not saying that this is happening but just want to throw it out there to be careful about replying to to anyone that you feel is just trolling a discussion, saying the opposite of how everyone feels on every discussion they participate in. I have seen a lot of great discussions get closed that way. Just saying, definitely not because anyone here is doing it. A good indicator is those people usually have a massive amount of dislikes compared to likes. I just say this because I hope to keep good conversations going that can help the community.
It is common sense. They never said they would never change champions outside of that review process, as even Dr Zola said above that would be absurd to think that.
Also you just derailed the conversion by attacking me, and not my post nor adding anything to the topic. What you just did is what gets them shut down. We were having a respectful conversation until that.
Don't listen to the emotional community. Namor is unlikely to recieve and nerf because he requires long ramp up each fight to get his damage output. His utility is still amazing and debatably outshines everyone in the mutant class with the exception of omega red.
I'm all for slapping more utility and regen on Cull in exchange for less damage. Comparing Namor and Cull is like apples and oranges. Yes he needs ramp up in every matchup that ISN'T long (or he wouldn't be useful in AW) and in exchange he has regen, utility and possibility of handlnig many more tough matchups than Cull.
What Kabam and his forum worshippers are missing about Cull is CONTEXT. Looking at numbers without context is dumb.
If they looked at context, they would nerf at least 5-6 champs before Cull. Just because Cull is extremely useful in about 25% of content, doesn't mean he has to be nerfed. Ghost is useful in about 80% of content and has crazy utility and survivability compared to Cull with insane damage that doesn't need to be ramped up...but no, let's nerf Cull.
No way. You’ve worked too hard for those resources to see them wrecked by irresponsible policies.
What would be a responsible step here is a “hands off” date on these champs—some kind of statute of limitations that says when the team is done with the initial “adjustment” so players can make a meaningful determination about whether the champ is one they want to invest in.
Dr. Zola
So a date after which balance of the game no longer matters, no matter what data shows there is an imbalance?
That’s not what I said. Misstating someone's position by adding the most restrictive (“no longer”) and most extreme (“no matter”) terms is resorting to straw men once again. Bad form for a self-professed “logician.”
No, provide a list re: these “adjustments”—who’s safe for now, who’s on the table, which older champs are getting a review.
I’m not talking about meta-shifting, 12.0 level changes here—those are their own entity and should be dealt with separately. I’m talking about the “adjustment” program.
If the team needs the community to test the most basic attributes of its products (and according to Miike below, it does), then just announcing an “adjustment” program exists and that some champs might get changed isn’t enough.
Dr. Zola
sounds like excuses to me. I don't think they play at a high level at all. You think the break downs Seatin and Legacy amongst others do have to deal with the overall amount of hours when they break down champions? No, they just understand the game.
@Lormif Diablo was also released before the program was implemented and Kabam stated that he missed the cutoff. This gave alot of players the idea that champs are safe once they enter the basic pool such as Cull. I know changes need to be made. The main problem i see is the same thing that keeps continuing to happen and that is how kabam communicates with the community. Recently mods have made statements that are entirely false such as all champs are the same speed. They said changes before champs enter the basic pool which didnt happen correctly with Cull. Communication about the goals and what players can expect needs to be front and center here. Trust is at an all time low at least since i started playing the game. Its a sad time when a large portion of the playerbase is nervous to rank up champs that they have worked hard for. IF kabam isnt careful about how they handle this and any other changes in the near future I am afraid this could be a major turning point in the game. With the new avengers game coming out soon and the problems kabam has created recently with all these changes it could chase a bunch of ppl away very easily. Thats also a fear i have in spending money in the game right now cuz i dont know if it will be around at this time next year.
Context is all we know is that they said he was overreaching other Champs in one aspect. Then the whole community started yelling fire in a Theater.
A couple of things to everyone here...
This was a pretty nice thread an hour ago. @Lormif and I and others were having a good conversation. Not necessarily Kumbaya, but a good discussion. Please don’t derail it.
Second thing: When someone says “one aspect”...it’s important to understand it is the overriding, primary aspect, the main point of the champ. Does he do a few other things? Sure, but his number one selling point is big burst damage. It’s not like they changed his hairstyle.
Third thing: this thread is actually about Namor and the “fudge factor” the team wants to add into every new champ they sell. It isn’t directly about Cull, and it certainly isn’t about us. Keep it on topic.
No way. You’ve worked too hard for those resources to see them wrecked by irresponsible policies.
What would be a responsible step here is a “hands off” date on these champs—some kind of statute of limitations that says when the team is done with the initial “adjustment” so players can make a meaningful determination about whether the champ is one they want to invest in.
Dr. Zola
You see the problem of course.
1. Nobody is going to R5 those champs, so they won't be used as much, until the rebalance date passes. KABAM'S data would then really reveal nothing and so the rebalance won't happen.
2. Then everyone ranks em up, destroys and/or cheeses content, and we have the same problem.
3. KABAM still nerfs the champ after the tweak period.
Not saying anyone should rank or shouldn't rank, entirely up to each player, however iy won't solve the problem.
@Lormif Diablo was also released before the program was implemented and Kabam stated that he missed the cutoff. This gave alot of players the idea that champs are safe once they enter the basic pool such as Cull. I know changes need to be made. The main problem i see is the same thing that keeps continuing to happen and that is how kabam communicates with the community. Recently mods have made statements that are entirely false such as all champs are the same speed. They said changes before champs enter the basic pool which didnt happen correctly with Cull. Communication about the goals and what players can expect needs to be front and center here. Trust is at an all time low at least since i started playing the game. Its a sad time when a large portion of the playerbase is nervous to rank up champs that they have worked hard for. IF kabam isnt careful about how they handle this and any other changes in the near future I am afraid this could be a major turning point in the game. With the new avengers game coming out soon and the problems kabam has created recently with all these changes it could chase a bunch of ppl away very easily. Thats also a fear i have in spending money in the game right now cuz i dont know if it will be around at this time next year.
While I’m at it, I’m going to engage in a crazy thought experiment here: what would the game look like if featured crystals didn’t exist?
Put aside the financial impact for now—I’m going to assume it’s financially doable.
The rate of new champ acquisition would slow down. Maybe the rate of new champ introduction would decrease as well, hopefully with a focus on getting it right as opposed to getting it out. CCP players would have one less thing to focus on.
Arena scores—maybe they go up, or maybe they go down. If you know the champ you get is immediately on the table, perhaps you don’t grind so hard. Or maybe you do, since you know you will be one of only a few who get an OP champ for 3 months.
There’s less need to buff the snot out of new EQ bosses in an effort to make them look awesome and goose sales.
So what takes the featured’s place? I’m not sure—maybe a 300 unit crystal that offers a subset of champs at a lesser drop rate. Or nothing at all.
Again...crazy thought experiment.
Dr. Zola
great thought experiment, as a designer ,if i wanted to concentrate on both long life for a game (atleast 10 years more) and at the same time produce equal or slightely similar revenue that is earned but removing or reducing featured champ crystal sells, reducing bugs,a bad problem of nerf etc. these r some of the points i would do. - release 3 champions every 3 months ,during july and december i would expect to release 5 --> these gives more time for my developers and design team to make each character standout ,have equality and a proper balance (like if an X champ is good at damage, he gets reduced utilities and vice a versa) (also have NDA signed very small beta with some known youtubers for featured champion to test ,take feedback and have that beta done before 2 months of character release) - have fluid and perfecty suitable animations for each new characters released - 1 Guranteed Rework of an old character and his/her animations who needs one or has very outdated animations and abilities(and guranteed release of it the following month so no Betas just straight Re- release of old champ every month ) and Sell that champion Specific Rankup materials to take him upto 5/65 or 6* R1>2 ,2>3 (costing 2 odins) or (5* rank 2>3,3>4,4>5 costing total $99) - keeping only featured 5* character arena but increase top 150 to top 500.and basic 5* character arena which runs for 2 weeks (reducing Bot activity and more time to catchh bots n pattens etc) every month or twice every month and has same champ Reworked previous month - Run 300 units featured crystals once every two weeks with slightly increased drop rates and 6 last released featured characters - introduce 2 new difficulties for every month's difficulties Cavalier and Epic(having The maze level of difficulty,only suitable for only top 5-10% of summoners or once with wallets) - a rare but Surprise future character release bundle ,everyone would want a champ tht will be released after 3 months, thats gives specific advantage of having 1 unique character that isnt even in game for next 3 months) - and probably might have to do lot more to gain similar revenue. would love to add more points if anyone has more ideas. lets keep this going . we can help kabam with this suggetions as well instead of just head butting for Rdts,nerfs n wht not
Don't listen to the emotional community. Namor is unlikely to recieve and nerf because he requires long ramp up each fight to get his damage output. His utility is still amazing and debatably outshines everyone in the mutant class with the exception of omega red.
From what I see, I don't think the data they "analyzed" includes length of ramping up. They may just care the highest damage he does with sp2.
I had Namor ready for r4 and gungho to take him up. Even unlocked suicides and dumped 110 sig stones into him then Kabam announced the Cull "retuning" and it reminded me why I'm not taking new champs above r3 before they get added to the basic crystals. We know were not getting rank downs for these new champs, so theres no reason to waste the valuable resources on them only to have them nerfed a couple months later.
depends on your situation and if you need prestige imo. Hopefully he doesn't get touched but as long as they don't start making prestige nerfs he should at least be very high prestige for a while.
No way. You’ve worked too hard for those resources to see them wrecked by irresponsible policies.
What would be a responsible step here is a “hands off” date on these champs—some kind of statute of limitations that says when the team is done with the initial “adjustment” so players can make a meaningful determination about whether the champ is one they want to invest in.
Dr. Zola
You see the problem of course.
1. Nobody is going to R5 those champs, so they won't be used as much, until the rebalance date passes. KABAM'S data would then really reveal nothing and so the rebalance won't happen.
2. Then everyone ranks em up, destroys and/or cheeses content, and we have the same problem.
3. KABAM still nerfs the champ after the tweak period.
Not saying anyone should rank or shouldn't rank, entirely up to each player, however iy won't solve the problem.
You have a point, but I don’t think just everyone R5’s champs out of the box. At a certain level, players do, but that’s a pretty thin slice of the whole community.
And the kinds of champs we are talking about are more likely than not going to be highly effective at even R4. I’m just shy of 1M total rating and I still rely heavily on R4’s because...well, I can clear most content with them, top-end resources aren’t readily available in semi-retirement and my memory of the long history of Kabam with their customers. R4 data can still be compared to R4 data.
You’re right that it’s always possible that Kabam waits just long enough to get past a certain date before deciding to nerf. But I think forcing them to go on record that a champ is “working as intended” as of a date certain creates a much stronger argument for the community if the team turns around to “rebalance” a month later.
More I think about it, the answer is clear: kill the featured Cav crystals. Kill all of the cash offers for “early champ access.” Keep new champs out of the Featured 5/6* crystals until they’ve been thoroughly vetted.
All these threads end up being about the same thing due to a few addicts incapable of simply posting their response. 100% of the time they will quote, and attempt to discredit someone else’s contribution.
This is just fine, but if you call someone a name your post gets deleted. Derailing discussions of the game’s operations is cool. Over and over again. But don’t you dare hurt someone’s feelings.
Honestly, go for it. I'm ranking up my Namor as soon as I can. If they nerf him, we'll either get a rank down ticket or I'll just quit the game. Kabam already encouraged me to stop spending money on this game and I'd love for them to give me a reason to leave all together.
Comments
Also you just derailed the conversion by attacking me, and not my post nor adding anything to the topic. What you just did is what gets them shut down. We were having a respectful conversation until that.
What Kabam and his forum worshippers are missing about Cull is CONTEXT. Looking at numbers without context is dumb.
This was a pretty nice thread an hour ago. @Lormif and I and others were having a good conversation. Not necessarily Kumbaya, but a good discussion. Please don’t derail it.
Second thing: When someone says “one aspect”...it’s important to understand it is the overriding, primary aspect, the main point of the champ. Does he do a few other things? Sure, but his number one selling point is big burst damage. It’s not like they changed his hairstyle.
Third thing: this thread is actually about Namor and the “fudge factor” the team wants to add into every new champ they sell. It isn’t directly about Cull, and it certainly isn’t about us. Keep it on topic.
Dr. Zola
1. Nobody is going to R5 those champs, so they won't be used as much, until the rebalance date passes. KABAM'S data would then really reveal nothing and so the rebalance won't happen.
2. Then everyone ranks em up, destroys and/or cheeses content, and we have the same problem.
3. KABAM still nerfs the champ after the tweak period.
Not saying anyone should rank or shouldn't rank, entirely up to each player, however iy won't solve the problem.
- release 3 champions every 3 months ,during july and december i would expect to release 5 --> these gives more time for my developers and design team to make each character standout ,have equality and a proper balance (like if an X champ is good at damage, he gets reduced utilities and vice a versa) (also have NDA signed very small beta with some known youtubers for featured champion to test ,take feedback and have that beta done before 2 months of character release)
- have fluid and perfecty suitable animations for each new characters released
- 1 Guranteed Rework of an old character and his/her animations who needs one or has very outdated animations and abilities(and guranteed release of it the following month so no Betas just straight Re- release of old champ every month ) and Sell that champion Specific Rankup materials to take him upto 5/65 or 6* R1>2 ,2>3 (costing 2 odins) or (5* rank 2>3,3>4,4>5 costing total $99)
- keeping only featured 5* character arena but increase top 150 to top 500.and basic 5* character arena which runs for 2 weeks (reducing Bot activity and more time to catchh bots n pattens etc) every month or twice every month and has same champ Reworked previous month
- Run 300 units featured crystals once every two weeks with slightly increased drop rates and 6 last released featured characters
- introduce 2 new difficulties for every month's difficulties Cavalier and Epic(having The maze level of difficulty,only suitable for only top 5-10% of summoners or once with wallets)
- a rare but Surprise future character release bundle ,everyone would want a champ tht will be released after 3 months, thats gives specific advantage of having 1 unique character that isnt even in game for next 3 months)
- and probably might have to do lot more to gain similar revenue. would love to add more points if anyone has more ideas. lets keep this going . we can help kabam with this suggetions as well instead of just head butting for Rdts,nerfs n wht not
And the kinds of champs we are talking about are more likely than not going to be highly effective at even R4. I’m just shy of 1M total rating and I still rely heavily on R4’s because...well, I can clear most content with them, top-end resources aren’t readily available in semi-retirement and my memory of the long history of Kabam with their customers. R4 data can still be compared to R4 data.
You’re right that it’s always possible that Kabam waits just long enough to get past a certain date before deciding to nerf. But I think forcing them to go on record that a champ is “working as intended” as of a date certain creates a much stronger argument for the community if the team turns around to “rebalance” a month later.
More I think about it, the answer is clear: kill the featured Cav crystals. Kill all of the cash offers for “early champ access.” Keep new champs out of the Featured 5/6* crystals until they’ve been thoroughly vetted.
Or start making QA the number one priority.
Dr. Zola
This is just fine, but if you call someone a name your post gets deleted. Derailing discussions of the game’s operations is cool. Over and over again. But don’t you dare hurt someone’s feelings.
What a joke.