How to make faster champion buffs

Secret_GamerSecret_Gamer Posts: 189
edited September 28 in General Discussion
So, the Colossus and OML buffs are on the way and both seem to become really good champions. The thing is, that these champion buffs were announced months ago and the last champion buffs came live in March 2019 (Spider-Gwen, Gamora, She-Hulk).

And I think we can all agree that in terms of buffing champions, Kabam still has much things to do.

So, I was thinking about a method of buffing champs, that aren't "Meme" or "F / E" tier but champs that are mediocre or "C / D", maybe even "B" tier characters:

1. More "realistic:"
I would give champs like Heimdall or Angela a bleed ability. Both use swords and it'd just make sense for theme to bleed the opponent while attacking.

2. Stacking debuffs:
Most of the older champs aren't able to infinitely stack their debuffs, such champs as Wolverine X-23 (can only have up to 5 bleeds) / Killmonger (not counting the SP3 massive bleed). All these champs would become stronger but at the same time nothing like too overpowered. Why? Because Domino and Nick Fury are also able to infinitely stack their bleeds and both have this ability since they were introduced. And yes, X-23 and KM are already good champs, but they both were just the first examples that came in my mind and this small buff wouldn't make them too OP.

3. Immunities:
Well, I know there are like billions of threads about this... but give older champs more immunities! Most discussed are probably Iceman (who should be given Colsnap and Frostbite immunity) and Dormammu and Ghost Rider (Incinerate immunity). All 3 of these guys are champs that shined in 2017 and maybe 2018, but definitely were stomped by most of the newer champs.

I'm pretty sure these would be changes that could be done a lot faster than full reworks and thus, faster champion buffs. These small buffs would make mediocre champs stop getting overshadowed by the "A / S" tier champs and would give more champs time to shine.

So what do guys think? Should Kabam take this into consideration or not?

Comments

  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 614 ★★★

    So, the Colossus and OML buffs are on the way and both seem to become really good champions. The thing is, that these champion buffs were announced months ago and the last champion buffs came live in March 2019 (Spider-Gwen, Gamora, She-Hulk).

    And I think we can all agree that in terms of buffing champions, Kabam still has much things to do.

    So, I was thinking about a method of buffing champs, that aren't "Meme" or "F / E" tier but champs that are mediocre or "C / D", maybe even "B" tier characters:

    1. More "realistic:"
    I would give champs like Heimdall or Angela a bleed ability. Both use swords and it'd just make sense for theme to bleed the opponent while attacking.

    2. Stacking debuffs:
    Most of the older champs aren't able to infinitely stack their debuffs, such champs as Wolverine X-23 (can only have up to 5 bleeds) / Killmonger (not counting the SP3 massive bleed). All these champs would become stronger but at the same time nothing like too overpowered. Why? Because Domino and Nick Fury are also able to infinitely stack their bleeds and both have this ability since they were introduced. And yes, X-23 and KM are already good champs, but they both were just the first examples that came in my mind and this small buff wouldn't make them too OP.

    3. Immunities:
    Well, I know there are like billions of threads about this... but give older champs more immunities! Most discussed are probably Iceman (who should be given Colsnap and Frostbite immunity) and Dormammu and Ghost Rider (Incinerate immunity). All 3 of these guys are champs that shined in 2017 and maybe 2018, but definitely were stomped by most of the newer champs.

    I'm pretty sure these would be changes that could be done a lot faster than full reworks and thus, faster champion buffs. These small buffs would make mediocre champs stop getting overshadowed by the "A / S" tier champs and would give more champs time to shine.

    So what do guys think? Should Kabam take this into consideration or not?

    Short answer. No.

    Slightly longer answer. Game is set in a fictional universe where not everything makes sense, or has to try to make sense. What may seem a "Logical" fix or rework might not be good for the health of the game overall. In terms of the stacking debuffs, most of the ones that do stack are shorter duration that either take longer to apply (Domino's bleeds coming from specials only) or are super short duration or deal little damage (Nick Fury medium bleeds do such little damage, and his more powerful light ending bleed only lasts 1 second). Other debuff stacking champs generally last longer and deal more damage and should be limited to some extent.
  • Colonaut123Colonaut123 Posts: 1,256 ★★★
    I agree with the concept: while it is sometimes necessary to overhaul champions completely, some only require quick-fixes. And let's not forget: even formidable champions like Ghost Rider are getting behind because of the massive rate of beyond god tier champions being released. Patch notes should involve monthly tweaks to champions and only if that option is exhausted, large overhauls with beta should be opted. At this rate, it will take years for Kabam to update, unless they cut down in releasing new champions (not going to happen). The longer they wait, the worse it gets.
  • TheVyrusTheVyrus Posts: 297 ★★
    I think the real problem is, these perceived small changes still require a lot of work behind the scenes. Kabam is not a small business with a few employees. They are a large company and changes like this require that procedures be followed from planning, to developing, to testing (this is a big one too), launching, and monitoring. I simplified it but there are multiple people doing multiple things for all this to happen. It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated but it really is.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 614 ★★★
    TheVyrus said:

    I think the real problem is, these perceived small changes still require a lot of work behind the scenes. Kabam is not a small business with a few employees. They are a large company and changes like this require that procedures be followed from planning, to developing, to testing (this is a big one too), launching, and monitoring. I simplified it but there are multiple people doing multiple things for all this to happen. It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated but it really is.

    I'm glad that someone has an idea of how the Games Industry actually runs. I was a former Tester for a few different companies and no matter how hard I try to explain that it's not as simple as "Make a change and make it work", people never listen if it doesn't follow their needs or rhetoric.
  • Secret_GamerSecret_Gamer Posts: 189
    ItsDamien said:

    So, the Colossus and OML buffs are on the way and both seem to become really good champions. The thing is, that these champion buffs were announced months ago and the last champion buffs came live in March 2019 (Spider-Gwen, Gamora, She-Hulk).

    And I think we can all agree that in terms of buffing champions, Kabam still has much things to do.

    So, I was thinking about a method of buffing champs, that aren't "Meme" or "F / E" tier but champs that are mediocre or "C / D", maybe even "B" tier characters:

    1. More "realistic:"
    I would give champs like Heimdall or Angela a bleed ability. Both use swords and it'd just make sense for theme to bleed the opponent while attacking.

    2. Stacking debuffs:
    Most of the older champs aren't able to infinitely stack their debuffs, such champs as Wolverine X-23 (can only have up to 5 bleeds) / Killmonger (not counting the SP3 massive bleed). All these champs would become stronger but at the same time nothing like too overpowered. Why? Because Domino and Nick Fury are also able to infinitely stack their bleeds and both have this ability since they were introduced. And yes, X-23 and KM are already good champs, but they both were just the first examples that came in my mind and this small buff wouldn't make them too OP.

    3. Immunities:
    Well, I know there are like billions of threads about this... but give older champs more immunities! Most discussed are probably Iceman (who should be given Colsnap and Frostbite immunity) and Dormammu and Ghost Rider (Incinerate immunity). All 3 of these guys are champs that shined in 2017 and maybe 2018, but definitely were stomped by most of the newer champs.

    I'm pretty sure these would be changes that could be done a lot faster than full reworks and thus, faster champion buffs. These small buffs would make mediocre champs stop getting overshadowed by the "A / S" tier champs and would give more champs time to shine.

    So what do guys think? Should Kabam take this into consideration or not?

    Short answer. No.

    Slightly longer answer. Game is set in a fictional universe where not everything makes sense, or has to try to make sense. What may seem a "Logical" fix or rework might not be good for the health of the game overall. In terms of the stacking debuffs, most of the ones that do stack are shorter duration that either take longer to apply (Domino's bleeds coming from specials only) or are super short duration or deal little damage (Nick Fury medium bleeds do such little damage, and his more powerful light ending bleed only lasts 1 second). Other debuff stacking champs generally last longer and deal more damage and should be limited to some extent.
    I think you didn't quite get the idea. Making the game realistic is of course not the goal. But, this strategy is supposed to serve as a help for Kabam to give champs small buffs. And one method by doing so is by adding abbilities to champions that'd fit them.
  • Secret_GamerSecret_Gamer Posts: 189
    ItsDamien said:

    So, the Colossus and OML buffs are on the way and both seem to become really good champions. The thing is, that these champion buffs were announced months ago and the last champion buffs came live in March 2019 (Spider-Gwen, Gamora, She-Hulk).

    And I think we can all agree that in terms of buffing champions, Kabam still has much things to do.

    So, I was thinking about a method of buffing champs, that aren't "Meme" or "F / E" tier but champs that are mediocre or "C / D", maybe even "B" tier characters:

    1. More "realistic:"
    I would give champs like Heimdall or Angela a bleed ability. Both use swords and it'd just make sense for theme to bleed the opponent while attacking.

    2. Stacking debuffs:
    Most of the older champs aren't able to infinitely stack their debuffs, such champs as Wolverine X-23 (can only have up to 5 bleeds) / Killmonger (not counting the SP3 massive bleed). All these champs would become stronger but at the same time nothing like too overpowered. Why? Because Domino and Nick Fury are also able to infinitely stack their bleeds and both have this ability since they were introduced. And yes, X-23 and KM are already good champs, but they both were just the first examples that came in my mind and this small buff wouldn't make them too OP.

    3. Immunities:
    Well, I know there are like billions of threads about this... but give older champs more immunities! Most discussed are probably Iceman (who should be given Colsnap and Frostbite immunity) and Dormammu and Ghost Rider (Incinerate immunity). All 3 of these guys are champs that shined in 2017 and maybe 2018, but definitely were stomped by most of the newer champs.

    I'm pretty sure these would be changes that could be done a lot faster than full reworks and thus, faster champion buffs. These small buffs would make mediocre champs stop getting overshadowed by the "A / S" tier champs and would give more champs time to shine.

    So what do guys think? Should Kabam take this into consideration or not?

    Short answer. No.

    Slightly longer answer. Game is set in a fictional universe where not everything makes sense, or has to try to make sense. What may seem a "Logical" fix or rework might not be good for the health of the game overall. In terms of the stacking debuffs, most of the ones that do stack are shorter duration that either take longer to apply (Domino's bleeds coming from specials only) or are super short duration or deal little damage (Nick Fury medium bleeds do such little damage, and his more powerful light ending bleed only lasts 1 second). Other debuff stacking champs generally last longer and deal more damage and should be limited to some extent.
    You may see this post double, 'cuz the original comment still isn't public...

    I think you didn't quite get the idea of this concept. It's not about making the game more realistic, but a suggestion for Kabam how they could buff champions faster. And one way by doing so, is by giving them abilities that'd actually fit them.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Posts: 614 ★★★

    ItsDamien said:

    So, the Colossus and OML buffs are on the way and both seem to become really good champions. The thing is, that these champion buffs were announced months ago and the last champion buffs came live in March 2019 (Spider-Gwen, Gamora, She-Hulk).

    And I think we can all agree that in terms of buffing champions, Kabam still has much things to do.

    So, I was thinking about a method of buffing champs, that aren't "Meme" or "F / E" tier but champs that are mediocre or "C / D", maybe even "B" tier characters:

    1. More "realistic:"
    I would give champs like Heimdall or Angela a bleed ability. Both use swords and it'd just make sense for theme to bleed the opponent while attacking.

    2. Stacking debuffs:
    Most of the older champs aren't able to infinitely stack their debuffs, such champs as Wolverine X-23 (can only have up to 5 bleeds) / Killmonger (not counting the SP3 massive bleed). All these champs would become stronger but at the same time nothing like too overpowered. Why? Because Domino and Nick Fury are also able to infinitely stack their bleeds and both have this ability since they were introduced. And yes, X-23 and KM are already good champs, but they both were just the first examples that came in my mind and this small buff wouldn't make them too OP.

    3. Immunities:
    Well, I know there are like billions of threads about this... but give older champs more immunities! Most discussed are probably Iceman (who should be given Colsnap and Frostbite immunity) and Dormammu and Ghost Rider (Incinerate immunity). All 3 of these guys are champs that shined in 2017 and maybe 2018, but definitely were stomped by most of the newer champs.

    I'm pretty sure these would be changes that could be done a lot faster than full reworks and thus, faster champion buffs. These small buffs would make mediocre champs stop getting overshadowed by the "A / S" tier champs and would give more champs time to shine.

    So what do guys think? Should Kabam take this into consideration or not?

    Short answer. No.

    Slightly longer answer. Game is set in a fictional universe where not everything makes sense, or has to try to make sense. What may seem a "Logical" fix or rework might not be good for the health of the game overall. In terms of the stacking debuffs, most of the ones that do stack are shorter duration that either take longer to apply (Domino's bleeds coming from specials only) or are super short duration or deal little damage (Nick Fury medium bleeds do such little damage, and his more powerful light ending bleed only lasts 1 second). Other debuff stacking champs generally last longer and deal more damage and should be limited to some extent.
    You may see this post double, 'cuz the original comment still isn't public...

    I think you didn't quite get the idea of this concept. It's not about making the game more realistic, but a suggestion for Kabam how they could buff champions faster. And one way by doing so, is by giving them abilities that'd actually fit them.
    But that also comes under the health of the game. If we gave every champ abilities that "fit them" it'd create some serious imbalance. A lot of the champions in the game are not even close to how they're represented in the multitudes of different comic adaptations they have been in, and a lot of them have abilities that aren't represented in those comics or even movies.

    Game balance isn't as easy as "Just give them what they have in the lore".
  • Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 3,696 ★★★★★
    The issue with the sort of buffs you mentioned is that they are for good but not great champs, the reworks are for useless champs
  • Secret_GamerSecret_Gamer Posts: 189
    ItsDamien said:

    ItsDamien said:

    So, the Colossus and OML buffs are on the way and both seem to become really good champions. The thing is, that these champion buffs were announced months ago and the last champion buffs came live in March 2019 (Spider-Gwen, Gamora, She-Hulk).

    And I think we can all agree that in terms of buffing champions, Kabam still has much things to do.

    So, I was thinking about a method of buffing champs, that aren't "Meme" or "F / E" tier but champs that are mediocre or "C / D", maybe even "B" tier characters:

    1. More "realistic:"
    I would give champs like Heimdall or Angela a bleed ability. Both use swords and it'd just make sense for theme to bleed the opponent while attacking.

    2. Stacking debuffs:
    Most of the older champs aren't able to infinitely stack their debuffs, such champs as Wolverine X-23 (can only have up to 5 bleeds) / Killmonger (not counting the SP3 massive bleed). All these champs would become stronger but at the same time nothing like too overpowered. Why? Because Domino and Nick Fury are also able to infinitely stack their bleeds and both have this ability since they were introduced. And yes, X-23 and KM are already good champs, but they both were just the first examples that came in my mind and this small buff wouldn't make them too OP.

    3. Immunities:
    Well, I know there are like billions of threads about this... but give older champs more immunities! Most discussed are probably Iceman (who should be given Colsnap and Frostbite immunity) and Dormammu and Ghost Rider (Incinerate immunity). All 3 of these guys are champs that shined in 2017 and maybe 2018, but definitely were stomped by most of the newer champs.

    I'm pretty sure these would be changes that could be done a lot faster than full reworks and thus, faster champion buffs. These small buffs would make mediocre champs stop getting overshadowed by the "A / S" tier champs and would give more champs time to shine.

    So what do guys think? Should Kabam take this into consideration or not?

    Short answer. No.

    Slightly longer answer. Game is set in a fictional universe where not everything makes sense, or has to try to make sense. What may seem a "Logical" fix or rework might not be good for the health of the game overall. In terms of the stacking debuffs, most of the ones that do stack are shorter duration that either take longer to apply (Domino's bleeds coming from specials only) or are super short duration or deal little damage (Nick Fury medium bleeds do such little damage, and his more powerful light ending bleed only lasts 1 second). Other debuff stacking champs generally last longer and deal more damage and should be limited to some extent.
    You may see this post double, 'cuz the original comment still isn't public...

    I think you didn't quite get the idea of this concept. It's not about making the game more realistic, but a suggestion for Kabam how they could buff champions faster. And one way by doing so, is by giving them abilities that'd actually fit them.
    But that also comes under the health of the game. If we gave every champ abilities that "fit them" it'd create some serious imbalance. A lot of the champions in the game are not even close to how they're represented in the multitudes of different comic adaptations they have been in, and a lot of them have abilities that aren't represented in those comics or even movies.

    Game balance isn't as easy as "Just give them what they have in the lore".
    As already said, this idea focuses on on kinda meh champs or "B" tier champs that could get some love (like Human Torch and Annihilus will get soon).
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 8,636 Guardian
    ItsDamien said:

    TheVyrus said:

    I think the real problem is, these perceived small changes still require a lot of work behind the scenes. Kabam is not a small business with a few employees. They are a large company and changes like this require that procedures be followed from planning, to developing, to testing (this is a big one too), launching, and monitoring. I simplified it but there are multiple people doing multiple things for all this to happen. It doesn't seem like it should be that complicated but it really is.

    I'm glad that someone has an idea of how the Games Industry actually runs. I was a former Tester for a few different companies and no matter how hard I try to explain that it's not as simple as "Make a change and make it work", people never listen if it doesn't follow their needs or rhetoric.
    The rule of thumb is it takes everything four to six months outside of making a major overhaul or expansion of a game, and outside of simple bug fixes. To flag Ghost Rider incinerate immune would take about thirty seconds of spreadsheet time, and about four to six months to go live. To create an entire new champion from scratch would take probably about 1500 man-hours of time, and go live in about four to six months.

    This is super hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been there. If I say this is largely (although not exclusively) due to a combination of silos and pipelines, everyone who's been there would probably nod, and everyone else would just assume I'm typing random buzzwords.
Sign In or Register to comment.