Daredevil vs Guillotine 2099

dot_ditto

So I'm working on Guillotine 2099, and figured I'd try Daredevil (classic) to try to help vs her cloak ..

I had already seen this video ...
https://youtu.be/IOr1d0f0sbA?t=307

which I was aware of the "warning" .. however, seems I got an actual 0% chance to connect when I played ...

With Daredevil able to bypass all other "invisible", why is guillotine 2099 so different ?
(or is this a bug, as the video suggests ??)

Nojokejaym

thats exactly what i thought why cant daredevil hit her when shes invisible, my guess kabam just forgot about dd

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Cliffordcan

Pretty sure she phases like Ghost (intangible, not invisible). Too lazy to go read her abilities tho.

While both call outs (“Miss”) are the same there are different things making someone miss. Invisibilty (Hood, IW, etc.) isn’t a problem for DD, but intangiblility (Ghost) is.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

One, because is not listed as an ability. So in theory, no ability (currently) allows Daredevil to bypass invisibility.
And also, Guillotine 2099 doesn't trigger invisibility.

Fred_Joeity

Probably since blind people still can’t hit intangible opponents

SummonerNR

It activates a “Digi-Cloak that causes all unblocked attacks to miss”

So technically not invisibility. Something Tech related that would cause attacks to miss.

I tried just for fun too (on the Alt.Reality side-quest boss, seems to alternate between Guilly 2099 and Elsa), to see what would happen using DD on her.

dot_ditto

will-o-wisp said:

One, because is not listed as an ability. So in theory, no ability (currently) allows Daredevil to bypass invisibility..

It's not listed specifically anywhere, but Kabam has confirmed it's a "hidden ability" ... similar to Magneto's helmet vs Emma's inverse controls.

That's fine if it doesn't work for Guillotine .. however, the wording of the ability does seem more similar Hood, Sue Storm, Darkhawk, etc ... than it does to Ghost. So I was kind of surprised ..

Would be nice to get a confirmation from Kabam then on this, as it's really not entirely clear 1 way or the other.
(and these things really SHOULD be spelled out in the abilities of champs .. to be perfectly honest .. I realize it's almost impossible to clarify every interaction, however, if they used common terms (ie "invisibility" and "phasing" rather than a new one "cloak"), it would be much easier, since they could add a clause to daredevil indicating he ignores "invisibility" .. )

dot_ditto

SummonerNR said:

It activates a “Digi-Cloak that causes all unblocked attacks to miss”

So technically not invisibility. Something Tech related that would cause attacks to miss.

hmm, ok .. so they are using "invisibility" for specific cases .. vs these "unnamed" instances of just "attacks miss" ?

Hmm, ok, I can see that ...


[edit]
interesting, just re-read Darkhawk .. no mention of invisibility on him, however, daredevil has no trouble tagging him ... so yeah, some lack of consistency there still hehe
[/edit]

dot_ditto

Ok .. so looked over the different wording for all the various champs with similar ability:

Darkhawk             Stealth mode: incoming light/med attacks have 30% chance to miss
Ghost                phasing: incoming attacks have 100% chance to miss
Guillotine 2099      Digi-cloak: causes all unblocked attacks to miss
Invisible Woman      invisible: incoming attacks have 100% chance to miss (not blocking/dodging)
Mysterio             illusion: all incoming attacks have 25% miss chance
The Hood             invisible: incoming attacks have a 45% chance to miss

So Invisible Woman, Hood, and Mysterio seem obvious - Daredevil should be able to ignore those.
Ghost is obvious ... he can't bypass that.

Darkhawk, however, like Guillotine 2099, does not mention invisible, and use very similar wording.
Darkhawk is bypassed, Guillotine 2099 is not.

So yeah, would be nice if Kabam could work on some consistency with this stuff to make it easier for us to understand the nature of the effects ..

SummonerNR

(addition to my comment earlier)
Seems like Video DOES show DD never causing the Digi-Cloak to activate and make DD miss. Video he was landing his hits all the time, and I never saw a call-out wording for Digi-Cloak on that DD video fight.

Whereas I did my DD test in Alt. Reality Epic quest, in which I believe it said “Immune to AA reduction” as a boss buff.
So maybe DD being immune to invisibility (however that is defined in this Guilly 2099 case) is normally part of an Ability Accuracy reduction of his,. And thus in the Alt Reality version he can not reduce that. My DD was CONSTANTLY causing the Digi-Cloak to activate, and he would not hit thru it. At least that’s what I recall happening.

Savio444

dot_ditto

Savio444 said:

Yeah, I recall seeing that response before, but it's a kind of "non-response", to be perfectly honest.

I mean think about it:
Daredevil can bypass Invisible woman's invisibility ... that information is neither on Daredevil, nor on Invisible woman, in any way. It's simply a "hidden passive" of daredevil, based on in-comic information.
It's cool, don't get me wrong, it's great they did that, IMHO ..

But, Ok, so fine, as per Mike, the note shouldn't be on Daredevil .. then it should be on Guillotine 2099 ... but it's not ..

And the terminologies being used aren't really clear, or consistent .. so I still think they could certainly be more consistent on these things. *shrug*

Trillionaire6

With the recent changes made to champions based on things not being in their descriptions coughshehulkcough, there should be no reason this isn't stated somewhere. If this is an ability that Daredevil has, then by previously used logic it NEEDS to be stated in his ability descriptions. Without it being listed, it gives them the chance to take it away when it becomes an inconvenience for them. We've seen how this plays out.

Bboychobo

or just do that

Bboychobo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSv_vxw62I

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dot_ditto

_ASDF_ said:

Wow... a use for my duped 6* DD. Lmao. Jk. She’s easy and I used various champs to take her down. Just don’t hit her when you can miss? Lmao.

Missing the point .

so far, I've handled her just fine with Ghost ... but yeah, the point is the lack of info on DD's abilities .. when they should be ... "somewhere" .. and there should be some consistency in the terminologies used.

dot_ditto

Bboychobo said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSv_vxw62I

Uh ... Yeah, I don't have a 15k pi champ ... not to mention Corvus ... but again, you're completely missing the point and derailing the conversation ... issue has nothing to do with her being .. "hard" .. (I never said she was, never even hinted at it) ...

Just trying to focus on the terminologies used with DD .. and when they do and do not apply.

Kabam needs to make clarify a few things there ...

Pach

Bboychobo said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSv_vxw62I

This game play made me cringe

CFree

Pach said:

Bboychobo said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSv_vxw62I

This game play made me cringe

Okay. I’ll bite. Why not upload yours so we can see your masterful skills at work?

Waiting...

dot_ditto

CFree said:

Pach said:

Bboychobo said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSv_vxw62I

This game play made me cringe

Okay. I’ll bite. Why not upload yours so we can see your masterful skills at work?

Waiting...

Either way, can you guys please take that to another thread ..
thanks.

Would like to keep the focus on DD and the available information (or lack there of ..)

thank you!

Eb0ny-O-M4w

dot_ditto said:

_ASDF_ said:

Wow... a use for my duped 6* DD. Lmao. Jk. She’s easy and I used various champs to take her down. Just don’t hit her when you can miss? Lmao.

Missing the point .

so far, I've handled her just fine with Ghost ... but yeah, the point is the lack of info on DD's abilities .. when they should be ... "somewhere" .. and there should be some consistency in the terminologies used.

I actually agree with that, and tried as well to point that out some time ago.
Easter-eggs shouldn't be hidden in the game. By logic standards, there is no reason why Daredevil should bypass invisibility, or magneto and juggernaut to be immune to Emma Frost reverse controls, or even to Havoc and Cyclops to be immune to each other beam attacks

dot_ditto

will-o-wisp said:

dot_ditto said:

_ASDF_ said:

Wow... a use for my duped 6* DD. Lmao. Jk. She’s easy and I used various champs to take her down. Just don’t hit her when you can miss? Lmao.

Missing the point .

so far, I've handled her just fine with Ghost ... but yeah, the point is the lack of info on DD's abilities .. when they should be ... "somewhere" .. and there should be some consistency in the terminologies used.

I actually agree with that, and tried as well to point that out some time ago.
Easter-eggs shouldn't be hidden in the game. By logic standards, there is no reason why Daredevil should bypass invisibility, or magneto and juggernaut to be immune to Emma Frost reverse controls, or even to Havoc and Cyclops to be immune to each other beam attacks

well, no, it does make sense in some of those cases .. based on the comic book lore and the nature of their abilities ... I'm fine with that ... although we seem to disagree there, I think we both agree it should be spelt out .. "somewhere" .. it should be "clearer" when it applies and when it does not.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

dot_ditto said:

will-o-wisp said:

dot_ditto said:

_ASDF_ said:

Wow... a use for my duped 6* DD. Lmao. Jk. She’s easy and I used various champs to take her down. Just don’t hit her when you can miss? Lmao.

Missing the point .

so far, I've handled her just fine with Ghost ... but yeah, the point is the lack of info on DD's abilities .. when they should be ... "somewhere" .. and there should be some consistency in the terminologies used.

I actually agree with that, and tried as well to point that out some time ago.
Easter-eggs shouldn't be hidden in the game. By logic standards, there is no reason why Daredevil should bypass invisibility, or magneto and juggernaut to be immune to Emma Frost reverse controls, or even to Havoc and Cyclops to be immune to each other beam attacks

well, no, it does make sense in some of those cases .. based on the comic book lore and the nature of their abilities ... I'm fine with that ... although we seem to disagree there, I think we both agree it should be spelt out .. "somewhere" .. it should be "clearer" when it applies and when it does not.

In this case, I disregard comic book lore or anything that isn't related to the game. Even the character model doesn't matter, only the abilities. So judging by the abilities itself, nothing would justify those easter-eggs.

RoninMan

But champs like Human Torch and Nick Fury can still hit her while she’s cloaked I’m assuming?

_Barabbas_

Daredevil has to be worth something. This is his niche, let him have it.

RoninMan

RoninMan said:

But champs like Human Torch and Nick Fury can still hit her while she’s cloaked I’m assuming?

I just tested Torch against Guillotine 2099 and he didn’t work. I guess there is literally no counter for her cloak except for waiting out the timer or hitting her block.

StevieManWonder

@RoninMan Really? That might be a bug, Human Torch is not supposed to miss under any circumstances if I understand him correctly

GroundedWisdom

Is Digi-Cloak the same as Invisibility?

RoninMan

StevieManWonder said:

@RoninMan Really? That might be a bug, Human Torch is not supposed to miss under any circumstances if I understand him correctly

Yeah I was thinking it was a bug I’m not entirely sure. It sounds like an invisibility thing so maybe that interaction with DD and Torch is bugged. Maybe a mod can confirm if this is working as intended or a bug that should be fixed.