Elsa applying degen when under suicides

13

Comments

  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,252 ★★★★★

    They turned off Cable's degen from DE, thay have to do the same with Elsa.

    Not at all, degen is an aura resulting from her bleeding. This is the same mechanic Omega Red, Blade, Void and Abomination benefit from regardless of the source.
    Can you stay back and wait it out like OR or Blade?
    Non sequitur, try again.

  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    I’m not trying to disprove any of that buddy! 😂 I created a thread to ask if it was intended, you said it was. YOU have no idea if it was Intended or not, so that is an opinion you are stating as fact! That’s the point as that’s what you’re telling me I do.
    You asked me to point out where you wrong, I pointed it out.
    You’re now running this in another direction

    Except I DO have an idea, based on all the information in her spotlight, and knowledge of how suicides work, it IS suposed to work.

    AGAIN

    When Elsa is affected by a Bleed Debuff, Non-Mutant Champions gain a Passive Degeneration dealing 145.92 Direct Damage every 0.5 seconds until all Bleed Debuffs on Elsa end. While this Degen is active Opponents are also Heal Blocked.

    If she is bleeding you get a degen, double edge is bleeding, therefore you get a degen. Claim I have no idea if it is supposed to work that way, when it literally tells you it should work that way, is the height of arrogance.

    You where did you point out I am wrong? Also you were the one who started attacking me, taking the thread off topic.
    Where does it say it’s meant to interact with suicides?
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
    Please don’t make me do this again.
    You said It is intended to interact with suicides, this is opinion. You have no idea whether that’s what they intended, on evidence it seems like they didn’t test her under suicides. They also didn’t state it in her spotlight.
    You said it was a set amount. Wrong.
    You said it wouldn’t kill you in under 20 seconds. That’s wrong also.
    It does 5800 max in 20 seconds, that’s only a single hit. WRONG again.

    All this was in her spotlight. You implied the questions I had would be answered in her spotlight. WRONG again.

    Last time man.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,252 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    They turned off Cable's degen from DE, thay have to do the same with Elsa.

    cables degen scaled MUCH MUCH higher than Elsa's and was a detriment to players in all areas. 400% of attack

    Lormif said:

    I’m not trying to disprove any of that buddy! 😂 I created a thread to ask if it was intended, you said it was. YOU have no idea if it was Intended or not, so that is an opinion you are stating as fact! That’s the point as that’s what you’re telling me I do.
    You asked me to point out where you wrong, I pointed it out.
    You’re now running this in another direction

    Except I DO have an idea, based on all the information in her spotlight, and knowledge of how suicides work, it IS suposed to work.

    AGAIN

    When Elsa is affected by a Bleed Debuff, Non-Mutant Champions gain a Passive Degeneration dealing 145.92 Direct Damage every 0.5 seconds until all Bleed Debuffs on Elsa end. While this Degen is active Opponents are also Heal Blocked.

    If she is bleeding you get a degen, double edge is bleeding, therefore you get a degen. Claim I have no idea if it is supposed to work that way, when it literally tells you it should work that way, is the height of arrogance.

    You where did you point out I am wrong? Also you were the one who started attacking me, taking the thread off topic.
    Where does it say it’s meant to interact with suicides?
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
    Please don’t make me do this again.
    You said It is intended to interact with suicides, this is opinion. You have no idea whether that’s what they intended, on evidence it seems like they didn’t test her under suicides. They also didn’t state it in her spotlight.
    You said it was a set amount. Wrong.
    You said it wouldn’t kill you in under 20 seconds. That’s wrong also.
    It does 5800 max in 20 seconds, that’s only a single hit. WRONG again.

    All this was in her spotlight. You implied the questions I had would be answered in her spotlight. WRONG again.

    Last time man.
    It is NOT an opionion. It does NOT have to litterally state *intended to work with suicides* for it to work with suicides.

    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.....Again her spotlight says it works with bleed and double edge is a bleed. I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.

  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    They turned off Cable's degen from DE, thay have to do the same with Elsa.

    cables degen scaled MUCH MUCH higher than Elsa's and was a detriment to players in all areas. 400% of attack

    Lormif said:

    I’m not trying to disprove any of that buddy! 😂 I created a thread to ask if it was intended, you said it was. YOU have no idea if it was Intended or not, so that is an opinion you are stating as fact! That’s the point as that’s what you’re telling me I do.
    You asked me to point out where you wrong, I pointed it out.
    You’re now running this in another direction

    Except I DO have an idea, based on all the information in her spotlight, and knowledge of how suicides work, it IS suposed to work.

    AGAIN

    When Elsa is affected by a Bleed Debuff, Non-Mutant Champions gain a Passive Degeneration dealing 145.92 Direct Damage every 0.5 seconds until all Bleed Debuffs on Elsa end. While this Degen is active Opponents are also Heal Blocked.

    If she is bleeding you get a degen, double edge is bleeding, therefore you get a degen. Claim I have no idea if it is supposed to work that way, when it literally tells you it should work that way, is the height of arrogance.

    You where did you point out I am wrong? Also you were the one who started attacking me, taking the thread off topic.
    Where does it say it’s meant to interact with suicides?
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
    Please don’t make me do this again.
    You said It is intended to interact with suicides, this is opinion. You have no idea whether that’s what they intended, on evidence it seems like they didn’t test her under suicides. They also didn’t state it in her spotlight.
    You said it was a set amount. Wrong.
    You said it wouldn’t kill you in under 20 seconds. That’s wrong also.
    It does 5800 max in 20 seconds, that’s only a single hit. WRONG again.

    All this was in her spotlight. You implied the questions I had would be answered in her spotlight. WRONG again.

    Last time man.
    It is NOT an opionion. It does NOT have to litterally state *intended to work with suicides* for it to work with suicides.

    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.....Again her spotlight says it works with bleed and double edge is a bleed. I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.

    Hahaha skipped everything else again, you’re hilarious mate!! 😂😂
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,241 ★★★★
    I don't get why this is such a big debate. Elsa bloodstone will inflict degen when she is under the effect of a bleed debuff, double edge suicide mastery causes a bleed debuff, enough said. Now whether the insane amount of degen damage as shown in the video is intended, that is up for discussion whether the developers intended for the damage to be so OP. But it is abundantly clear that there is nothing wrong with elsa's degen being triggered by the bleed debuff from double edge.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    It is effectively like blade, OR, void and the like. After all you cannot at all evade voids. You can deactivate it, but you cannot evade it or get out of his range. It also does not scale like cables did, 400% of attack, Elsa's seems to be 8.3% of attack.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Hahaha skipped everything else again, you’re hilarious mate! 😂
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    It is effectively like blade, OR, void and the like. After all you cannot at all evade voids. You can deactivate it, but you cannot evade it or get out of his range. It also does not scale like cables did, 400% of attack, Elsa's seems to be 8.3% of attack.
    OR is the only champ that has a similar interaction and that's avoidable.

    They changed Cable and the should change Elsa.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    Hahaha skipped everything else again, you’re hilarious mate! 😂

    the only thing I skipped was you pointing out me being wrong in a post I had already admitted I was wrong about 3 times, now 4.. Again..

    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.... I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    They turned off Cable's degen from DE, thay have to do the same with Elsa.

    cables degen scaled MUCH MUCH higher than Elsa's and was a detriment to players in all areas. 400% of attack

    Lormif said:

    I’m not trying to disprove any of that buddy! 😂 I created a thread to ask if it was intended, you said it was. YOU have no idea if it was Intended or not, so that is an opinion you are stating as fact! That’s the point as that’s what you’re telling me I do.
    You asked me to point out where you wrong, I pointed it out.
    You’re now running this in another direction

    Except I DO have an idea, based on all the information in her spotlight, and knowledge of how suicides work, it IS suposed to work.

    AGAIN

    When Elsa is affected by a Bleed Debuff, Non-Mutant Champions gain a Passive Degeneration dealing 145.92 Direct Damage every 0.5 seconds until all Bleed Debuffs on Elsa end. While this Degen is active Opponents are also Heal Blocked.

    If she is bleeding you get a degen, double edge is bleeding, therefore you get a degen. Claim I have no idea if it is supposed to work that way, when it literally tells you it should work that way, is the height of arrogance.

    You where did you point out I am wrong? Also you were the one who started attacking me, taking the thread off topic.
    Where does it say it’s meant to interact with suicides?
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
    Please don’t make me do this again.
    You said It is intended to interact with suicides, this is opinion. You have no idea whether that’s what they intended, on evidence it seems like they didn’t test her under suicides. They also didn’t state it in her spotlight.
    You said it was a set amount. Wrong.
    You said it wouldn’t kill you in under 20 seconds. That’s wrong also.
    It does 5800 max in 20 seconds, that’s only a single hit. WRONG again.

    All this was in her spotlight. You implied the questions I had would be answered in her spotlight. WRONG again.

    Last time man.
    It is NOT an opionion. It does NOT have to litterally state *intended to work with suicides* for it to work with suicides.

    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.....Again her spotlight says it works with bleed and double edge is a bleed. I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.

    Literally pointed out where you wrong!! 😂😂 you just chose to ignore it and stead the conversation elsewhere
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:



    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
    Everything you said here is wrong or opinion.
    is it not in her spotlight. I was wrong about it being a set amount but not *everything*

    Lormif said:

    that is your opinion, not a fact. I have provided accurate factual data except when I stated it was my opinion, you provide opinions stated as fact, just like you just did. And from the rhino thread I provided feed back with your lack of information. Had we had a video, like we did on aegon (which is when we saw there was an issue) then that feedback would have been different. Also I have pointed out plenty of people being correct given the information. So instead of making this thread personal and taking it off topic as you did point out HOW I am wrong, dont attack me. For interlace is "double edged" a bleed? Does elsa degen on bleeds? If so then it is intended. You want to talk about how the damage probable should not scale so high? great I would agree with you as I did on the thread on in general. but she is designed to degen with double edge.

    What factual data did you provide?
    Who are you talking about when you say WE?
    How do you know that she was designed to bleed with double edge?
    That is your opinion, that is not fact. It may occur but unless you have spoken to a design team member you have no factual evidence of this.
    You stated an opinion as fact.
    Could not load a video with rhino as it won’t allow me but all it would take was for you to play with him for 30 seconds, instead your first port of call is to get on here and tell someone they are wrong.
    Why should I not point out you were wrong? You WERE wrong, you stated as fact that her degen did not scale. That’s misinformation
    That double edge is a bleed and she degens on bleed. I’ve also provided factual data lol. To say I haven’t and everything I say is opinion is overgeneralising which seems to be okay for you but not okay for others
    How do you know that she was designed to bleed with double edge? Does double edge count as a bleed with Omega red and death field? Yes, double edge is a bleed, it has a bleed icon, other bleeds stack on top of double edge.
    I meant degen, how do you know she was seasoned to degen with double edge. Have you personally spoken with someone? Was it in her spotlight?
    You are of the opinion it does, you have no factual data.


    You are overgeneralizing. Tell me I am incorrect and tell me why and how I am incorrect. Dont tell me *everything* I have said has been incorrect, which is false. Do nto attack me directly, attack my argument. I was wrong, I stated it did not in fact scale and I have in fact owned up to that error. That one error that I owned up to does not establish "All you’ve done is feed misinformation," and does not justify you taking the thread off topic.
    You owned up to nothing.
    So admitting I was wrong (about the scaling), not once, not twice but 3 times now is "owned up to nothing". Does your irrationality know no bounds?
    Can you show me where you admitted you were wrong before we started this back and forth? I’d like to see it, I’d also like to know how you think I’m being irrational
    now you are putting artificial limitations on something that was not there (irrational). I never stated I admitted I was wrong before this back and forth happened, but I did point it out in another thread, where I even proved her scaling, from last night.

    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/163558/is-elsa-going-to-be-an-aw-nightmare-unless-you-have-her-barrier-to-entry-champions#latest

    You are so bent on being 100% correct and proving me to be 100% false that you cannot even admit when you are wrong.
    😂😂😂😂 I’m bent on being 100% correct? So you’re expecting me to know everything you’ve said in a thread I’ve never been on like a follow you around and value your opinion? Your ego knows no bounds😂

    Where was I wrong again? You stated you said you were wrong 3 times, you didn’t say it here or to me, how was I supposed to know you’d changed your opinion?
    you expected me to know that a bug existed without any other evidence...</blockquote
    I’m not expecting you to know anything 😂 you chose to comment on all these threads. I didn’t make this for you lol.
    You’re expecting me to know everything you e said on the subject even though it’s not even in this thread
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    They turned off Cable's degen from DE, thay have to do the same with Elsa.

    cables degen scaled MUCH MUCH higher than Elsa's and was a detriment to players in all areas. 400% of attack

    Lormif said:

    I’m not trying to disprove any of that buddy! 😂 I created a thread to ask if it was intended, you said it was. YOU have no idea if it was Intended or not, so that is an opinion you are stating as fact! That’s the point as that’s what you’re telling me I do.
    You asked me to point out where you wrong, I pointed it out.
    You’re now running this in another direction

    Except I DO have an idea, based on all the information in her spotlight, and knowledge of how suicides work, it IS suposed to work.

    AGAIN

    When Elsa is affected by a Bleed Debuff, Non-Mutant Champions gain a Passive Degeneration dealing 145.92 Direct Damage every 0.5 seconds until all Bleed Debuffs on Elsa end. While this Degen is active Opponents are also Heal Blocked.

    If she is bleeding you get a degen, double edge is bleeding, therefore you get a degen. Claim I have no idea if it is supposed to work that way, when it literally tells you it should work that way, is the height of arrogance.

    You where did you point out I am wrong? Also you were the one who started attacking me, taking the thread off topic.
    Where does it say it’s meant to interact with suicides?
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    As the title says I fought Elsa in arena and the degen I copped as she was under suicides was crazy. Is this mechanic meant to be as the player doesn’t actually apply the debuff? Cable doesn’t do it and given I lost basically half hero health only fighting a 5/50 if she was to be an alliance war boss at 5/65 or higher she’d basically be unbeatable if under suicides assuming it scales.

    She dooes not apply it, it is a passive that jsut happens and cannot therefore be removed as long as she has a bleed.
    Yeah I’m asking if it’s a bug. She may not apply it but either way it is applied to you if she is under double edge. I’d like to know if this is an intended interaction with the mastery as if it is and if it scales it potentially can not be countered given the lack of degen immune champs.
    As an AW boss I’m struggling to think of a way she could be beaten given you’d be dead in under a 20 seconds. It’s unavoidable damage without even being on a node
    It is intended to be that way, but it is a set amount. Also it will not kill you in under 20 seconds, it does 5800 damage in 20 seconds, less than a good single hit.

    It is in her spotlight.
    Please don’t make me do this again.
    You said It is intended to interact with suicides, this is opinion. You have no idea whether that’s what they intended, on evidence it seems like they didn’t test her under suicides. They also didn’t state it in her spotlight.
    You said it was a set amount. Wrong.
    You said it wouldn’t kill you in under 20 seconds. That’s wrong also.
    It does 5800 max in 20 seconds, that’s only a single hit. WRONG again.

    All this was in her spotlight. You implied the questions I had would be answered in her spotlight. WRONG again.

    Last time man.
    It is NOT an opionion. It does NOT have to litterally state *intended to work with suicides* for it to work with suicides.

    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.....Again her spotlight says it works with bleed and double edge is a bleed. I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.

    Literally pointed out where you wrong!! 😂😂 you just chose to ignore it and stead the conversation elsewhere
    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.....Again her spotlight says it works with bleed and double edge is a bleed. I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    It is effectively like blade, OR, void and the like. After all you cannot at all evade voids. You can deactivate it, but you cannot evade it or get out of his range. It also does not scale like cables did, 400% of attack, Elsa's seems to be 8.3% of attack.
    OR is the only champ that has a similar interaction and that's avoidable.

    They changed Cable and the should change Elsa.
    That is an opinion, and one that based on the evidence does not make sense, after all changing that would neuter the ability, making it basically worthless. No one is going to effectively take her into a bleeding path
  • ChampioncriticChampioncritic Posts: 3,241 ★★★★
    Alright, this conversation is over, @Rougeknight87 is just trying to keep this thread up at the top by arguing a non-existent arguement. Lets get back on track and discuss the actual issue:

    I don't get why this is such a big debate. Elsa bloodstone will inflict degen when she is under the effect of a bleed debuff, double edge suicide mastery causes a bleed debuff, enough said. Now whether the insane amount of degen damage as shown in the video is intended, that is up for discussion whether the developers intended for the damage to be so OP. But it is abundantly clear that there is nothing wrong with elsa's degen being triggered by the bleed debuff from double edge.

  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    edited October 2019
    They have to change a champ's description every month because they're misleading or flat our wrong. Now we have a keyboard hero trying to browbeat everyone because of what it says in her spotlight. Great stuff.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Hahaha skipped everything else again, you’re hilarious mate! 😂

    the only thing I skipped was you pointing out me being wrong in a post I had already admitted I was wrong about 3 times, now 4.. Again..

    Answer these questions:

    1) is double edged a bleed debuff?
    2) Does elsa state that while under the effect of a bleed debuff their will be a degeneration?

    If both of those are true then it works. Me stating it is intended to work with suicides is fact based on the information we have.

    Again answer those 2 questions and show me which one is false.... I am not sure what you are having difficulties understanding, basic deductive logic. To prove me wrong you need to point out where those 2 items are wrong.
    Answer these questions

    Does Elsa do a disproportionate amount of degen damage when under suicides at a high PI level?
    Do you think the design team was aware of this when releasing her?
    Basic deductive logic, there is not another champ in this game that will kill you in under 20 seconds with unavoidable damage unless you bring a specific class. I’m deducing they didn’t test this which made me start a thread asking if it was intended.
    Again YOU have no idea what they intend or not, this game is vast and it has many interactions.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    They have to change a champ's description every month because they're misleading or flat our wrong. Now we have a keyboard hero trying to browbeat everyone because of what it says in her spotlight. Great stuff.

    really now you too? I was told it was not in the spotlight, so is it or isnt it? If you want to argue potency then that is a really good arguement to make, but this, and your others? not so much.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,252 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
    WTF does a dictionary definition have to do with this game? That's like posting the definition of "Villain" in Corvus' spot light or "Dimensional Being" in Arkus' lol.

    In the game that we're discussing here chief, an aura is something that can be avoided, OR, Meph, Blade and Carnage have an aura mechanic. Elas and Void do not have the same mechanic.

  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★

    Alright, this conversation is over, @Rougeknight87 is just trying to keep this thread up at the top by arguing a non-existent arguement. Lets get back on track and discuss the actual issue:

    I don't get why this is such a big debate. Elsa bloodstone will inflict degen when she is under the effect of a bleed debuff, double edge suicide mastery causes a bleed debuff, enough said. Now whether the insane amount of degen damage as shown in the video is intended, that is up for discussion whether the developers intended for the damage to be so OP. But it is abundantly clear that there is nothing wrong with elsa's degen being triggered by the bleed debuff from double edge.

    It’s not a big debate, it’s where he’s trying to steer it. I’m not nor have I ever questioned whether double edge is a bleed debuff.
    What I am questioning and will continue to question is whether the resulting actions of the double edge mastery was Intended. This was the whole point of the thread in the first place.
    On evidence it wasn’t tested so on evidence I questioned whether it was intended.
    Everything after is lormif doing lormif, I’m just pushing him/her a little .
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,361 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
    WTF does a dictionary definition have to do with this game? That's like posting the definition of "Villain" in Corvus' spot light or "Dimensional Being" in Arkus' lol.

    In the game that we're discussing here chief, an aura is something that can be avoided, OR, Meph, Blade and Carnage have an aura mechanic. Elas and Void do not have the same mechanic.

    You made a statement using English words. You claimed it was not an aura. It is an aura. Claiming that OR's aura is the only thing that fits the definition of an aura just because it says "aura" does not make any sense. It is like the OP claiming double edge is not a bleed because elsa does not say "works with suicides">>

    Elsa and void do not have the same mechanic, they are mostly the same, and they are auras, but they work inversely.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
    WTF does a dictionary definition have to do with this game? That's like posting the definition of "Villain" in Corvus' spot light or "Dimensional Being" in Arkus' lol.

    In the game that we're discussing here chief, an aura is something that can be avoided, OR, Meph, Blade and Carnage have an aura mechanic. Elas and Void do not have the same mechanic.

    You made a statement using English words. You claimed it was not an aura. It is an aura. Claiming that OR's aura is the only thing that fits the definition of an aura just because it says "aura" does not make any sense. It is like the OP claiming double edge is not a bleed because elsa does not say "works with suicides">>

    Elsa and void do not have the same mechanic, they are mostly the same, and they are auras, but they work inversely.
    Can you show me where I claimed it wasn’t a bleed? 😂
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★
    Lormif said:

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
    WTF does a dictionary definition have to do with this game? That's like posting the definition of "Villain" in Corvus' spot light or "Dimensional Being" in Arkus' lol.

    In the game that we're discussing here chief, an aura is something that can be avoided, OR, Meph, Blade and Carnage have an aura mechanic. Elas and Void do not have the same mechanic.

    You made a statement using English words. You claimed it was not an aura. It is an aura. Claiming that OR's aura is the only thing that fits the definition of an aura just because it says "aura" does not make any sense. It is like the OP claiming double edge is not a bleed because elsa does not say "works with suicides">>

    Elsa and void do not have the same mechanic, they are mostly the same, and they are auras, but they work inversely.
    This is like talking with a child.

    Please tell me where in Void's description it says his Intimidating Presence is an aura. I'll wait. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/44998/champion-spotlight-void/p1
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,252 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
    WTF does a dictionary definition have to do with this game? That's like posting the definition of "Villain" in Corvus' spot light or "Dimensional Being" in Arkus' lol.

    In the game that we're discussing here chief, an aura is something that can be avoided, OR, Meph, Blade and Carnage have an aura mechanic. Elas and Void do not have the same mechanic.

    Being able to avoid it has nothing to do with something being defined as an aura. Yeah Aarkus has an Aura also and guess what his s3 does?

    P.S. OR, Meph, Blade, and Carnage do have Auras with a limited range while Elsa’s Aura does not have a limitation.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,252 ★★★★★
    @Rougeknight87 If you’re questioning if her interaction with Double Edge is intended that has been asked and answered by Kabam and to you specifically.
  • RagamugginGunnerRagamugginGunner Posts: 2,210 ★★★★★

    Ugh, you guys are just brutal to try to talk to. Saying its' the same as OR and Blade is just wrong.

    No it’s an aura just like OR, Blade and Void; it simply does not have a proximity component to it like the first two and operates similar to the third.
    Wrong. It can't be avoided so calling it an aura and the same as Blade and OR is wrong. Void has no place in this discussion, or Blade for that matter, as that reacts to something you place on yourself, not something they place on themselves.

    Great job listing a few champs that react to those masteries in different ways then Elsa tho.
    Can’t argue with someone who denies reality. You are so barking up the wrong tree. Have a good day?

    P.S. It’s an aura.

    1. the distinctive atmosphere or quality that seems to surround and be generated by a person, thing, or place.
    WTF does a dictionary definition have to do with this game? That's like posting the definition of "Villain" in Corvus' spot light or "Dimensional Being" in Arkus' lol.

    In the game that we're discussing here chief, an aura is something that can be avoided, OR, Meph, Blade and Carnage have an aura mechanic. Elas and Void do not have the same mechanic.

    Being able to avoid it has nothing to do with something being defined as an aura. Yeah Aarkus has an Aura also and guess what his s3 does?

    P.S. OR, Meph, Blade, and Carnage do have Auras with a limited range while Elsa’s Aura does not have a limitation.
    Again, in this game, range is applied to an aura. Something that can't be avoided is not an aura, regardless of what it says in their spotlight or the dictionary.
  • Rougeknight87Rougeknight87 Posts: 599 ★★★

    @Rougeknight87 If you’re questioning if her interaction with Double Edge is intended that has been asked and answered by Kabam and to you specifically.

    Has a dev never come on here and stated something as fact and been wrong before? On evidence they didn’t test it.
This discussion has been closed.