Hero Use Events

6* champs get a big point advantage in arena but are equal to 4* champs for the hero Use Events. Why is that? @Kabam Miike

Comments

RoninMan

@GroundedWisdom everyone is trying to complete act 6 as well. Not everyone has 6* rosters, some have none at all. What’s your point?
Act 6 is a very specific piece of content for a very specific demographic playing. Solo Events include anyone eligible, and provide medial Resources. I mean, they add up, but they're not End-Game Resources. Giving more Points for 6*s would make it much more difficult for the general population to Rank than it already is.
This comment makes zero sense. Making 6* worth the same amount of points as a 4* doesn’t increase the chances of a player with a lower roster to rank. If someone has 6*, they will already have way more 4* and 5* than players with only 4* anyway. Doing arena with 50 5* and 100 4* already eliminates the chance of a player with 20 4* from ranking high anyway.

Unless you mean to just hit 51-100% rank in which case your comment still makes no sense, because if 6* were worth 100,000 points per fight, it still wouldn’t make it any harder for the lower rated person to hit the same rank.

I think it’s a valid, objective question. I know everyone speculated why the points exist but I don’t know why everyone has to jump and attack when a person asks a simple question. If 5* and 6* were worth more points it would just make everyone’s lives easier. You wouldn’t have to do as many fights so I don’t know why people are so against the question.
It means people who have 6*s don't surpass those who don't in a way they can't compete with.

It’s amazing how much false insight you have on all topics MCOC.

GroundedWisdom

@GroundedWisdom everyone is trying to complete act 6 as well. Not everyone has 6* rosters, some have none at all. What’s your point?
Act 6 is a very specific piece of content for a very specific demographic playing. Solo Events include anyone eligible, and provide medial Resources. I mean, they add up, but they're not End-Game Resources. Giving more Points for 6*s would make it much more difficult for the general population to Rank than it already is.
This comment makes zero sense. Making 6* worth the same amount of points as a 4* doesn’t increase the chances of a player with a lower roster to rank. If someone has 6*, they will already have way more 4* and 5* than players with only 4* anyway. Doing arena with 50 5* and 100 4* already eliminates the chance of a player with 20 4* from ranking high anyway.

Unless you mean to just hit 51-100% rank in which case your comment still makes no sense, because if 6* were worth 100,000 points per fight, it still wouldn’t make it any harder for the lower rated person to hit the same rank.

I think it’s a valid, objective question. I know everyone speculated why the points exist but I don’t know why everyone has to jump and attack when a person asks a simple question. If 5* and 6* were worth more points it would just make everyone’s lives easier. You wouldn’t have to do as many fights so I don’t know why people are so against the question.
It means people who have 6*s don't surpass those who don't in a way they can't compete with.
It’s amazing how much false insight you have on all topics MCOC.

False insight? No.
Hero Use occurs when you use Champs, either in the Arena or Quests.
All Players are automatically competing by using their Champs.
People at earlier stages of the game can't compete with people that have 6*s when you give more Points for 6*s. Yet they're all in the same Ranking system.
Get it now, or are you still looking at a comparison?

DNA3000

So let’s lay hero use out at current point threshold.

I need to get 275000 points at 1500 per fight. Now let say these are the normal at 1-2 minutes her fight(let’s say 90 secs and will include loading time to account for shorter fights). I think this is fair because loading time in arena and questing is a large amount of in game time.

So I need to execute 183.333 fights at a average of 90 seconds per fight invested.

183.333 fights*90s/60 s/m= 274.999minutes of fighting

Meaning I need to invest about 275 minutes of straight time in game fighting to hit this milestone.

So does 4.58 hours seem like a reasonable time investment for these rewards? I just be actively playing for 4.58 hours during the 22 hour window to hit this milestone. I will stand by the fact that hero use grind is absurd and takes too long.

90 seconds per fight seems longish even in quest, but it is an extremely high estimate for arena grinding.

I generally average between two and 2.5 minutes per round. Using the higher value, that's 4500 points every 150 seconds or 30 points per second during arena grinding. 275000 points would then take about 9167 seconds, or a little over two and a half hours.

To put it another way, 275000 points is about 61 rounds of arena (4* or higher). 30 rounds per hour is a very good speed, and that's about two hours at that rate. 25 rounds per hour is a decent rate, and that's about two and a half hours at that rate (I'm generally around here). 20 rounds per hour is anemic, and that's three hours of effort (this is how fast I grind when I'm watching TV while grinding). You're suggesting it takes over four and a half hours for someone to do that, which is less than 14 rounds per hour. I would have to reboot my phone between every round to reach that low of a grind rate.

61 arena rounds might be a lot of grind for some players, especially the more casual effort ones, but I think it is a very reasonable level of effort to reach the top milestone for an all day (22 hour) event.

DNA3000

And for that matter, I used to do a lot more of the lesser Class Combat ones too, when the 10% Attack Boost was actually something worthwhile getting. But now they hand out FREE 15% Attack Boosts in easier Ally Events (same with lesser 15% Health vs 20% Health that are handed out now too). Also makes buying those Lesser versions from Loyalty Story pretty worthless now as well since you accumulate so many of the higher level ones basically for free in recently changed easy Ally Events.

I open crystals during those events for the boost (when I'm not overflowing on the boost). It doesn't take very much crystal hoarding to be able to max that event out, so you don't have to sit on crystals for a significant length of time. I wait until the event is getting near the end to see how many points I put up just playing normally, and then if I have the crystals I "fill in" with crystals.

PHCs are remarkably valuable for this purpose, specifically the fully formed ones. It takes only 32 of them to max out a 7 hour event all by themselves, and players get tons of them during the normal course of gameplay.

RoninMan

@GroundedWisdom everyone is trying to complete act 6 as well. Not everyone has 6* rosters, some have none at all. What’s your point?
Act 6 is a very specific piece of content for a very specific demographic playing. Solo Events include anyone eligible, and provide medial Resources. I mean, they add up, but they're not End-Game Resources. Giving more Points for 6*s would make it much more difficult for the general population to Rank than it already is.
This comment makes zero sense. Making 6* worth the same amount of points as a 4* doesn’t increase the chances of a player with a lower roster to rank. If someone has 6*, they will already have way more 4* and 5* than players with only 4* anyway. Doing arena with 50 5* and 100 4* already eliminates the chance of a player with 20 4* from ranking high anyway.

Unless you mean to just hit 51-100% rank in which case your comment still makes no sense, because if 6* were worth 100,000 points per fight, it still wouldn’t make it any harder for the lower rated person to hit the same rank.

I think it’s a valid, objective question. I know everyone speculated why the points exist but I don’t know why everyone has to jump and attack when a person asks a simple question. If 5* and 6* were worth more points it would just make everyone’s lives easier. You wouldn’t have to do as many fights so I don’t know why people are so against the question.
It means people who have 6*s don't surpass those who don't in a way they can't compete with.
It’s amazing how much false insight you have on all topics MCOC.
False insight? No.
Hero Use occurs when you use Champs, either in the Arena or Quests.
All Players are automatically competing by using their Champs.
People at earlier stages of the game can't compete with people that have 6*s when you give more Points for 6*s. Yet they're all in the same Ranking system.
Get it now, or are you still looking at a comparison?

Yes people get points by using champs in arena or quests. That’s the only thing you seem to have a grasp on. A player in the early stages of the game isn’t going to have as developed of a roster as someone who has 6*, nor will they have as large of a unit stash unless they spend a fortune which isn’t likely. That means in arena players with end game rosters will run circles around beginners anyway. Someone with 500 champs has far more potential points than a beginner with 50, regardless of rarity point values. Do YOU get it now?

DNA3000

Why would we be rewarded for rarities in one solo event but not the other?

I suspect it is a combination of two things. First, the game tries to balance giving higher progress advantages in some areas but not others, so veterans have places where they can leverage their progress to be an advantage over other players, while new players have places where they are not operating under a disadvantage or at a lower disadvantage than they could be facing. So there is some lean in the game to make sure one doesn't completely displace the other. And second, these events aren't considered problematic, so there isn't a priority to significantly change things.

Because there is this need to maintain some balance between when players get and don't get advantages over other players if they decided to change the events they'd have to look very carefully at whether awarding more points creates too much of an imbalance in one direction, which means that kind of change isn't trivial: it would take up a lot of time to consider whether it was a good idea to do. Since it would take a lot of time and wouldn't generate as much benefit as other things, being a low priority part of the game at the moment probably puts it deep into the pile of things to review.

GroundedWisdom

@GroundedWisdom everyone is trying to complete act 6 as well. Not everyone has 6* rosters, some have none at all. What’s your point?
Act 6 is a very specific piece of content for a very specific demographic playing. Solo Events include anyone eligible, and provide medial Resources. I mean, they add up, but they're not End-Game Resources. Giving more Points for 6*s would make it much more difficult for the general population to Rank than it already is.
This comment makes zero sense. Making 6* worth the same amount of points as a 4* doesn’t increase the chances of a player with a lower roster to rank. If someone has 6*, they will already have way more 4* and 5* than players with only 4* anyway. Doing arena with 50 5* and 100 4* already eliminates the chance of a player with 20 4* from ranking high anyway.

Unless you mean to just hit 51-100% rank in which case your comment still makes no sense, because if 6* were worth 100,000 points per fight, it still wouldn’t make it any harder for the lower rated person to hit the same rank.

I think it’s a valid, objective question. I know everyone speculated why the points exist but I don’t know why everyone has to jump and attack when a person asks a simple question. If 5* and 6* were worth more points it would just make everyone’s lives easier. You wouldn’t have to do as many fights so I don’t know why people are so against the question.
It means people who have 6*s don't surpass those who don't in a way they can't compete with.
It’s amazing how much false insight you have on all topics MCOC.
False insight? No.
Hero Use occurs when you use Champs, either in the Arena or Quests.
All Players are automatically competing by using their Champs.
People at earlier stages of the game can't compete with people that have 6*s when you give more Points for 6*s. Yet they're all in the same Ranking system.
Get it now, or are you still looking at a comparison?
Yes people get points by using champs in arena or quests. That’s the only thing you seem to have a grasp on. A player in the early stages of the game isn’t going to have as developed of a roster as someone who has 6*, nor will they have as large of a unit stash unless they spend a fortune which isn’t likely. That means in arena players with end game rosters will run circles around beginners anyway. Someone with 500 champs has far more potential points than a beginner with 50, regardless of rarity point values. Do YOU get it now?

Arena Wins is something you pretty much elect to compete in. Same with Event Completion, unless you just happen to be running that mode at the time. Hero Use is literally anytime you use your Champs, outside of War or AQ.

RoninMan

@GroundedWisdom everyone is trying to complete act 6 as well. Not everyone has 6* rosters, some have none at all. What’s your point?
Act 6 is a very specific piece of content for a very specific demographic playing. Solo Events include anyone eligible, and provide medial Resources. I mean, they add up, but they're not End-Game Resources. Giving more Points for 6*s would make it much more difficult for the general population to Rank than it already is.
This comment makes zero sense. Making 6* worth the same amount of points as a 4* doesn’t increase the chances of a player with a lower roster to rank. If someone has 6*, they will already have way more 4* and 5* than players with only 4* anyway. Doing arena with 50 5* and 100 4* already eliminates the chance of a player with 20 4* from ranking high anyway.

Unless you mean to just hit 51-100% rank in which case your comment still makes no sense, because if 6* were worth 100,000 points per fight, it still wouldn’t make it any harder for the lower rated person to hit the same rank.

I think it’s a valid, objective question. I know everyone speculated why the points exist but I don’t know why everyone has to jump and attack when a person asks a simple question. If 5* and 6* were worth more points it would just make everyone’s lives easier. You wouldn’t have to do as many fights so I don’t know why people are so against the question.
It means people who have 6*s don't surpass those who don't in a way they can't compete with.
It’s amazing how much false insight you have on all topics MCOC.
False insight? No.
Hero Use occurs when you use Champs, either in the Arena or Quests.
All Players are automatically competing by using their Champs.
People at earlier stages of the game can't compete with people that have 6*s when you give more Points for 6*s. Yet they're all in the same Ranking system.
Get it now, or are you still looking at a comparison?
Yes people get points by using champs in arena or quests. That’s the only thing you seem to have a grasp on. A player in the early stages of the game isn’t going to have as developed of a roster as someone who has 6*, nor will they have as large of a unit stash unless they spend a fortune which isn’t likely. That means in arena players with end game rosters will run circles around beginners anyway. Someone with 500 champs has far more potential points than a beginner with 50, regardless of rarity point values. Do YOU get it now?
Arena Wins is something you pretty much elect to compete in. Same with Event Completion, unless you just happen to be running that mode at the time. Hero Use is literally anytime you use your Champs, outside of War or AQ.

Wow way to go off topic. Nobody is talking about Arena Wins or Event Completion. Talking about how arena scores make up a majority of the Hero Use points. But go ahead. Derail the thread into pointless jabber about stuff that doesn’t matter.

SummonerNR

@DNA3000 , yep, I used to open PC's and other hero crystals to round out Class Combat too. Just don’t see the need anymore now that the 1-day Ally Events hand out mid-level separate Attack and Health boosts for very minimal effort. Whereas the Solo Events still just give the Lesser version (same in Loyalty Store). If you’re not using the Boosts much, the mid-level Boosts will pile up for use instead of worrying about the Lesser ones,

SummonerNR

As for points for 4v5v6* usage, it sort of spreads out the availability of lower people to be able to do just as well in some events, while in other events it gives an advantage to higher people.
Sort of nice that they make it a mixture, so that nobody could say it always is skewed towards one set of players over another. (although it does prompt some questions about it from time to time)

Hero Use would favor those that put in more time (even if only with 4*). While other Events would favor those with more 5* and 6* (even if they aren’t putting in as much time). Sort of balances out.

GroundedWisdom

As for points for 4v5v6* usage, it sort of spreads out the availability of lower people to be able to do just as well in some events, while in other events it gives an advantage to higher people.
Sort of nice that they make it a mixture, so that nobody could say it always is skewed towards one set of players over another. (although it does prompt some questions about it from time to time)

Hero Use would favor those that put in more time (even if only with 4*). While other Events would favor those with more 5* and 6* (even if they aren’t putting in as much time). Sort of balances out.

In the Arena, it's balanced by the number of Champs in any particular Rarity you have, and Refresh. Hero Use could literally be spammed with one Champ.

DNA3000

@DNA3000 , yep, I used to open PC's and other hero crystals to round out Class Combat too. Just don’t see the need anymore now that the 1-day Ally Events hand out mid-level separate Attack and Health boosts for very minimal effort. Whereas the Solo Events still just give the Lesser version (same in Loyalty Store). If you’re not using the Boosts much, the mid-level Boosts will pile up for use instead of worrying about the Lesser ones,

Well, free is free, and since shifting the day I open crystals a little is essentially zero cost, I tend to do it. When the boosts pile up and I have nothing else to use them on, I just pop them while arena grinding to speed up the grind.

It isn't a huge benefit, but the point was that if you want to do it, those events can be done without a large cost in time. If you don't need the rewards, then of course it doesn't matter how long it takes because you can just skip them entirely.

GroundedWisdom

Not to mention people with sizable Rosters aren't even that dependent on those Rank Rewards. They're medial. 25 Units? Perhaps. A Rev? Sure. A 4* Sig?

Lesser and Greater Solo Crystals?

DNA3000

They're medial.

Please tell me you use a phone whose autocorrect was written by Chinese prison labor.

GroundedWisdom

They're medial.
Please tell me you use a phone whose autocorrect was written by Chinese prison labor.

Hahaha. Naw. I meant medial. Mid-level. Not exactly the target for more advanced Players. They're useful and cumulative, but more useful for mid-range Players.

Neotwism

@GroundedWisdom not everyone has 4* champs in the game either. So y should they be worth more than 2 and 3* champs? Your theory doesn't make much sense. I believe its simply because they added 5 and 6* champs but never increased the rewards or totals. Someone just starting won't be able to score as many points as someone that has a decent-sized roster. That's just how the game is. It's just like someone who has only been playing for 3 months is automatically moved into the veteran arena bracket. There is no way they can get a featured champ. They don't have their roster developed yet to compete. It takes time and patience.

GroundedWisdom

Not everyone has 4* Champs? By the time they get to the point they can Rank in Hero Use, they most likely do.

GroundedWisdom

The game has also progressed since we (I) started. A 4* comes pretty quickly.

ezgoing

I still think Kabam has not updated the Hero Use event (with 5*/6* champs) because it is low priority. However the fact is that kabam had already changed for other solo events, and they could have easily done Hero use event together as well.

What DNA suggested above made me think. Maybe it is because hero use events are causing players to log in say xx hours, and player engagement metrics is always crucial. So kabam doesn’t want to make it easier for players to hit those milestones so they chose not to update. Perhaps there are comparatively less player engagement stakes for the other solo use events like level up, class combat, arena wins.

All my speculation. But I just don’t buy the argument of kabam trying to balance things for players without 5*/6* champs. The effort for such players to hit all milestones don’t change regardless. Would kabam be concerned that they are giving players with 5*/6* an “unfair advantage” just because they can finish the milestones quicker? The only unfairness is in the ranked rewards, but I will be surprised if these aren’t already dominated by players with 5*/6* champs simply because they have a bigger roster to begin with.

unknown

This content has been removed.

GroundedWisdom

The game has also progressed since we (I) started. A 4* comes pretty quickly.
Every time I have enough shards for a 4 star, I go "more shards for the Sigil!"

Same. More is more.