Glancing vs True Strike

Tyger87

I understand the whole "can't" vs blah blah blah. I completely understand that under the functions True Strike serves, bypassing Glance is not under its current listed abilities.

My question is this, why not? I'm not looking for a strict definition from in game mechanics and verbiage. Its really a question for Kabam. Perhaps I will set up a pole on it later. For now, I want to get a feeler from the community.

Do you think True Strike should be able to bypass Glancing? It can stop a champ from completely dodging attacks, but it wont allow you to hit others straight on? Just seems illogical to me. Perhaps it would just make too many characters useful for variant, which is why it will never be changed. Or maybe there will be a future mechanic that negates it, just like some of CAPIW abilities can alter previously unchangeable mechanics.

Unknown

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PantherusNZ

True Strike also doesn't negate "Miss" mechanics (e.g. Ghost phasing, Vulture)

Tyger87

I get it. I know HOW it functions currently in the game. My question is do you think it should? The "Miss" mechanic has similar issues, but we have already seen characters with abilities specifically designed to counter "miss." Perhaps Kabam will do the same with glance.

Question remains, in your opinion, should true strike bypass glance?

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XxLoganTDCxX

No

Tyger87

Thanks! Now my next question. Why do you think it shouldn't? I gave my reasons as to why i thought logically it could, and I am fine either way. It doesn't really effect my game play, just something I was curious about.

DNA3000

Tyger87 said:

Do you think True Strike should be able to bypass Glancing? It can stop a champ from completely dodging attacks, but it wont allow you to hit others straight on? Just seems illogical to me.

True Strike *doesn't* stop champs from completely dodging attacks. It stops *evade* from dodging an attack. The player can still simply swipe back and completely avoid a True Strike attack. If True Strike worked "logically" it would prevent the player from avoiding attacks or dexing out of them just as much as it prevented the champion from evading attacks.

True Strike doesn't work "logically" because it is a game mechanic that obeys the needs of the game before the needs of conceptual logic. And it is more important that the player's control actions override True Strike than True Strike work logically.

With logic out of the way (at least, that kind of simplified logic) the question is not whether True Strike "should" bypass Glance but rather would it be better for the game if True Strike did or did not. And in my opinion, it is probably better that it doesn't. True Strike affects both *if* an attack lands and *whether* damage mitigation takes effect when it lands. But in both cases True Strike has counter-effects: it doesn't work in all scenarios and situations. That's generally a good thing: you don't want absolute trump-card effects in the game. True Strike prevents evade, but it doesn't prevent miss or dex. True Strike prevents armor and resistances from reducing damage but it doesn't prevent glancing effects from reducing damage. That seems reasonable.

Contrawise, suppose True Strike did bypass Glance. The problem here is that I'm unaware of any champion that 100% glances all attacks. Glance only sometimes happens. But many champs with True Strike have a 100% chance to True Strike. So when True Strike attacks Glance now, some attacks glance and some don't. But if TS bypassed Glance, then when True Strike attacked Glance the attacks would always land. That creates a problem: if True Strike basically "always won" in that situation, the devs would probably eventually be forced to create a mechanic that would prevent True Strike attacks from always landing with full effect. Otherwise, the counter to True Strike would be to load the game with miss effects which would be far more annoying. And we'd be back where we started: instead of asking why True Strike doesn't bypass Glance, we'd be asking why True Strike doesn't bypass the new effect.

To put it more simply, it is probably best that True Strike doesn't bypass all damage mitigation mechanics. It might as well be Glance, rather than having to invent a new one. The alternative is the devs use Miss every time they want to soften the effects of True Strike. And nobody wants that.

Tyger87

Thank you. Everything you said is exactly what I had previously assumed, minus some very semantic/verbiage issues. While I understand that you do not represent Kabam, I feel you probably have good insight for what the dev teams have to go through. I was not outright saying that it should or should not, but I thought the open discussion about it might help others who stumble upon the similar question I had when trying to find answers.

For the record, I tried to previously leave my opinion out of my original comment so as to get a slightly better response. I simply stated that it was illogical, not that it was impractical from a game mechanics standpoint. That being said I do not think True Strike should bypass Glancing, for many of the reasons you have stated above. Apologies to anyone who inferred my opening statement said otherwise.

Colonaut123

DNA3000 said:

Tyger87 said:

Do you think True Strike should be able to bypass Glancing? It can stop a champ from completely dodging attacks, but it wont allow you to hit others straight on? Just seems illogical to me.

True Strike *doesn't* stop champs from completely dodging attacks. It stops *evade* from dodging an attack. The player can still simply swipe back and completely avoid a True Strike attack. If True Strike worked "logically" it would prevent the player from avoiding attacks or dexing out of them just as much as it prevented the champion from evading attacks.

True Strike doesn't work "logically" because it is a game mechanic that obeys the needs of the game before the needs of conceptual logic. And it is more important that the player's control actions override True Strike than True Strike work logically.

With logic out of the way (at least, that kind of simplified logic) the question is not whether True Strike "should" bypass Glance but rather would it be better for the game if True Strike did or did not. And in my opinion, it is probably better that it doesn't. True Strike affects both *if* an attack lands and *whether* damage mitigation takes effect when it lands. But in both cases True Strike has counter-effects: it doesn't work in all scenarios and situations. That's generally a good thing: you don't want absolute ****-card effects in the game. True Strike prevents evade, but it doesn't prevent miss or dex. True Strike prevents armor and resistances from reducing damage but it doesn't prevent glancing effects from reducing damage. That seems reasonable.

Contrawise, suppose True Strike did bypass Glance. The problem here is that I'm unaware of any champion that 100% glances all attacks. Glance only sometimes happens. But many champs with True Strike have a 100% chance to True Strike. So when True Strike attacks Glance now, some attacks glance and some don't. But if TS bypassed Glance, then when True Strike attacked Glance the attacks would always land. That creates a problem: if True Strike basically "always won" in that situation, the devs would probably eventually be forced to create a mechanic that would prevent True Strike attacks from always landing with full effect. Otherwise, the counter to True Strike would be to load the game with miss effects which would be far more annoying. And we'd be back where we started: instead of asking why True Strike doesn't bypass Glance, we'd be asking why True Strike doesn't bypass the new effect.

To put it more simply, it is probably best that True Strike doesn't bypass all damage mitigation mechanics. It might as well be Glance, rather than having to invent a new one. The alternative is the devs use Miss every time they want to soften the effects of True Strike. And nobody wants that.

You could make the same argument for evade. As True Strike 100% causes evades to fail, why wouldn't that be a bad thing?

You need to look to the reason why True Strike is in the game. Simply put: class balance.

Most evade champions are science, thus most True Strike champions are skill. Most glancing champions are science as well, so it makes perfect sense to make glancing fail against True Strike.

DNA3000

Colonaut123 said:

DNA3000 said:

Tyger87 said:

Do you think True Strike should be able to bypass Glancing? It can stop a champ from completely dodging attacks, but it wont allow you to hit others straight on? Just seems illogical to me.

True Strike *doesn't* stop champs from completely dodging attacks. It stops *evade* from dodging an attack. The player can still simply swipe back and completely avoid a True Strike attack. If True Strike worked "logically" it would prevent the player from avoiding attacks or dexing out of them just as much as it prevented the champion from evading attacks.

True Strike doesn't work "logically" because it is a game mechanic that obeys the needs of the game before the needs of conceptual logic. And it is more important that the player's control actions override True Strike than True Strike work logically.

With logic out of the way (at least, that kind of simplified logic) the question is not whether True Strike "should" bypass Glance but rather would it be better for the game if True Strike did or did not. And in my opinion, it is probably better that it doesn't. True Strike affects both *if* an attack lands and *whether* damage mitigation takes effect when it lands. But in both cases True Strike has counter-effects: it doesn't work in all scenarios and situations. That's generally a good thing: you don't want absolute ****-card effects in the game. True Strike prevents evade, but it doesn't prevent miss or dex. True Strike prevents armor and resistances from reducing damage but it doesn't prevent glancing effects from reducing damage. That seems reasonable.

Contrawise, suppose True Strike did bypass Glance. The problem here is that I'm unaware of any champion that 100% glances all attacks. Glance only sometimes happens. But many champs with True Strike have a 100% chance to True Strike. So when True Strike attacks Glance now, some attacks glance and some don't. But if TS bypassed Glance, then when True Strike attacked Glance the attacks would always land. That creates a problem: if True Strike basically "always won" in that situation, the devs would probably eventually be forced to create a mechanic that would prevent True Strike attacks from always landing with full effect. Otherwise, the counter to True Strike would be to load the game with miss effects which would be far more annoying. And we'd be back where we started: instead of asking why True Strike doesn't bypass Glance, we'd be asking why True Strike doesn't bypass the new effect.

To put it more simply, it is probably best that True Strike doesn't bypass all damage mitigation mechanics. It might as well be Glance, rather than having to invent a new one. The alternative is the devs use Miss every time they want to soften the effects of True Strike. And nobody wants that.

You could make the same argument for evade. As True Strike 100% causes evades to fail, why wouldn't that be a bad thing?

You need to look to the reason why True Strike is in the game. Simply put: class balance.

Most evade champions are science, thus most True Strike champions are skill. Most glancing champions are science as well, so it makes perfect sense to make glancing fail against True Strike.

You can't make the same argument for evade, because evade is just one among many ways to avoid being hit. True Strike essentially bypasses all damage mitigation effects except glancing. If True Strike overrode Glancing, it would then bypass armor, resistances, and glancing. That's essentially the full gamut of effects that reduce damage on landed attacks.

I think it is extremely unlikely that True Strike is (primarily) a class balance effect. First of all, it isn't true that most evade champs are science. And as far as I can recall, there are four champs with intrinsic True Strike: Karnak, Killmonger, Cable, and Venom (at low health) and only two are skill. And while "most" glancing champs are science, that's only insofar as only one I can think of has intrinsic glancing: Ant-Man. There's no pattern here that makes the case that these effects are dominated by class balance considerations.

Derek2k

Tyger87 said:

I understand the whole "can't" vs blah blah blah. I completely understand that under the functions True Strike serves, bypassing Glance is not under its current listed abilities.

My question is this, why not? I'm not looking for a strict definition from in game mechanics and verbiage. Its really a question for Kabam. Perhaps I will set up a pole on it later. For now, I want to get a feeler from the community.

Do you think True Strike should be able to bypass Glancing? It can stop a champ from completely dodging attacks, but it wont allow you to hit others straight on? Just seems illogical to me. Perhaps it would just make too many characters useful for variant, which is why it will never be changed. Or maybe there will be a future mechanic that negates it, just like some of CAPIW abilities can alter previously unchangeable mechanics.

Nothing will ever bypass glancing.