Is this even logical?

Reverend_RuckusReverend_Ruckus Member Posts: 407 ★★★
in General Discussion
I’m fully aware it doesn’t say it but how is Nick Fury’s second medium not a non-contact hit? It’s a point-blank shot to the body but no physical contact between the two champions. Same thing can be said for his last light attack as well
It doesn’t make sense to take static shock damage from this unless the gun was actually touching the opponent.
If you have any constructive disagreements towards this I would like to see them. Just don’t bring up the, “It’s their game” reply because that’s not a good argument.

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Comments

  • Eb0ny-O-M4wEb0ny-O-M4w Member Posts: 14,025 ★★★★★
    I don't know for sure if those hits are or not considered projectile attacks.
    If they are projectile attacks, they shouldn't trigger static shock. If they aren't, it totally should trigger static shock.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,052 ★★★★★
    Maybe you have put this on Bugs and Issues instead of general discussion.
  • Reverend_RuckusReverend_Ruckus Member Posts: 407 ★★★
    Demonzfyre said:

    Maybe you have put this on Bugs and Issues instead of general discussion.

    Wasn’t sure if it was a bug.

  • Nah01Nah01 Member Posts: 243 ★★
    It's non contact hits and if Kabam sees it as contact hits then well, they are even beyond what we already knew about them.
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Member Posts: 7,470 ★★★★★
    This issue was raised but not answered re: Fury here.
  • ECOMAECOMA Member Posts: 328 ★★
    willy_kmc said:

    DNA3000 said:


    It sees them as contact hits because the hits actually have to hit the target.

    So you're implying now Electro becomes the most powerful defender in AW since his static can only be avoided when hits dont ACTUALLY hit him? Wow, you're smart.

    So only champions that do "invisible hits" will get 0 damage from static. So Emma Frost Specials and Scarlet Witch Special 2 are the ONLY source of damage that will not generate static shock. Since they are invisible and do not ACTUALLY hit the target.

    I genuinely hope you are trolling, otherwise you look like a player who started a week ago but talk like you've played for years.
    No hes saying physical contact holding an item and hitting something with it is a physical contact. SW is a projectile.

    Dont beleive me go grab a knife and start swinging it at live electric currents. If you take no damage I'll retract my comment
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,199 ★★★★★
    edited January 2020
    Does Fury hit with the gun or fire the gun? Because that would explain my confusion.
    Edit: in the OP he's clearly firing his gun. Therefore it's a projectile and shouldn't trigger static shock 🤔
  • ECOMAECOMA Member Posts: 328 ★★
    Snizzbar said:

    Does Fury hit with the gun or fire the gun? Because that would explain my confusion.

    Throw a medium from accrossed the scree. a bullet would still hit the target the gun wouldnt.

    I dont play fury much but that's just common sense logic.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,675 Guardian
    Snizzbar said:

    Does Fury hit with the gun or fire the gun? Because that would explain my confusion.
    Edit: in the OP he's clearly firing his gun. Therefore it's a projectile and shouldn't trigger static shock 🤔

    The bullet doesn't trigger shock. Striking the target with the gun while firing it triggers shock. If you attempt to use that attack and you don't actually strike the target with the gun, you won't trigger shock. Your bullets will also always miss the target somehow, because the visual appearance of firing the gun is just vfx: visual eyecandy.

    Claiming that the visual appearance of attacks should always match the physics of the attacks is simply a line of thought that doesn't work for video games. And anyone who is intellectually honest would also be asking how players could evade projectiles that seemingly go right through the player, or how explosions somehow completely avoid hurting the player if they just happen to be moonwalking backwards at the instant the detonation happens. Because I don't think that's how physics works either.

    Melee attacks use hitbox mechanics. Projectile attacks use projectile mechanics. Fury's medium is a melee attack, which you can determine because you have to intersect hitboxes for the attack to work. What it looks like is irrelevant. The designer's job is to make the character implementation work, the animator and visual effects artists' jobs is to make it look cool. Sometimes what they make doesn't precisely reflect real world physics. Since nothing really does in video games, and since nothing really does in the comic book source material, this is probably not a really big priority.
  • OnmixOnmix Member Posts: 508 ★★★
    Because they didn’t make it a projectile. You can debate the physics all you want but he was designed that way. Period.

    This is a game. Not real life and real physics.
    Otherwise how can nick revive? You can say he is a robot but I never see the robot disappear.
    How can he defeat a superpowered villain being he is only a human agent?
    Hell. If this is real, maybe he should automatically die because if you go touch an electrical cable I’m sure you don’t just get 40% of the strength you hit it with back.
  • ECOMAECOMA Member Posts: 328 ★★
    Primmer79 said:

    ding ding ding! end of the round. Now everyone go to their respective corners and prepare for the next discussion:

    How can blade parry a projectile and cause bleed across the screen? :)

    I've often wondered that and hope they remove it and circus applying armor breaks by blocking a punch.

    Both need to be fixed based on logical reasons
  • Primmer79Primmer79 Member Posts: 2,968 ★★★★
    ECOMA said:

    Primmer79 said:

    ding ding ding! end of the round. Now everyone go to their respective corners and prepare for the next discussion:

    How can blade parry a projectile and cause bleed across the screen? :)

    I've often wondered that and hope they remove it and circus applying armor breaks by blocking a punch.

    Both need to be fixed based on logical reasons
    you will drive yourself crazy trying to make the marvel universe, logical.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,675 Guardian
    Primmer79 said:

    ding ding ding! end of the round. Now everyone go to their respective corners and prepare for the next discussion:

    How can blade parry a projectile and cause bleed across the screen? :)

    I think the sword does whatever Blade wants it to do.


  • ECOMAECOMA Member Posts: 328 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Primmer79 said:

    ding ding ding! end of the round. Now everyone go to their respective corners and prepare for the next discussion:

    How can blade parry a projectile and cause bleed across the screen? :)

    I think the sword does whatever Blade wants it to do.


    But even if so blocking with a sword wouldnt cause someone shooting you to suffer a bloody wound.

    Unless were talking he splits the bullets or ricochet them back at the enemy.

    But then it wouldnt work if say cyclop fires an energy beam.

    Blade needs this ability removed
  • SnizzbarSnizzbar Member Posts: 2,199 ★★★★★
    Spicyslicer said:

    There is a small metal string attached to that bullet.

    Thank you Spicy - that makes much more sense than that other guy's waffle.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,675 Guardian
    ECOMA said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Primmer79 said:

    ding ding ding! end of the round. Now everyone go to their respective corners and prepare for the next discussion:

    How can blade parry a projectile and cause bleed across the screen? :)

    I think the sword does whatever Blade wants it to do.


    But even if so blocking with a sword wouldnt cause someone shooting you to suffer a bloody wound.

    Unless were talking he splits the bullets or ricochet them back at the enemy.

    But then it wouldnt work if say cyclop fires an energy beam.

    Blade needs this ability removed
    You should get started on that right away. Also, in your spare time maybe you can work on that horsey thing in Chess.
  • Nah01Nah01 Member Posts: 243 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Nah01 said:

    It's non contact hits and if Kabam sees it as contact hits then well, they are even beyond what we already knew about them.

    It sees them as contact hits because the hits actually have to hit the target. I'm pretty sure that medium attack doesn't deal damage unless you actually hit the target because I don't think it uses projectile mechanics.

    Complaining about this or thinking this is especially weird in a game is like complaining that the horsey in chess can jump over castles even though no horse can jump that high.
    What kind of attack that doesn't actually hit the target? Even projectile has to hit target to make damage.

    Nick Fury uses a gun to shot his opponents. How can it make him contact to them in any explainable way?
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:


    It sees them as contact hits because the hits actually have to hit the target. I'm pretty sure that medium attack doesn't deal damage unless you actually hit the target because I don't think it uses projectile mechanics.

    DNA3000 said:


    Melee attacks use hitbox mechanics. Projectile attacks use projectile mechanics. Fury's medium is a melee attack, which you can determine because you have to intersect hitboxes for the attack to work. What it looks like is irrelevant. The designer's job is to make the character implementation work, the animator and visual effects artists' jobs is to make it look cool. Sometimes what they make doesn't precisely reflect real world physics. Since nothing really does in video games, and since nothing really does in the comic book source material, this is probably not a really big priority.

    Are you aware the code for melee attacks have a line, something like this, projectile:0-1? That line determines if the attack is or is not a projectile. Refer to Yondu being unparryable when someone mistakenly set his dash in medium attack to projectile: 1.

    The rest of this about intersecting hit boxes and projectiles doesn’t even make sense given we have Havok, IMIW, Yondu, Domino, Maw, etc who all use projectiles in their melee attacks.

    The audio for the ending light attack is a distinct gunshot, BTW.

    I made peace with NF being strictly contact basic attacks long ago but reading your logic behind this just doesn’t jibe with how the game can/does work.

    Sure NF is so bad ass he punches you with the gun as he fires, cool. But given how the game can/does function it’s not insane to question what’s happening and your explanation sure doesn’t make it any easier to accept; well maybe on Kashyyyk it does...
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,675 Guardian
    CoatHang3r said:

    DNA3000 said:


    It sees them as contact hits because the hits actually have to hit the target. I'm pretty sure that medium attack doesn't deal damage unless you actually hit the target because I don't think it uses projectile mechanics.

    DNA3000 said:


    Melee attacks use hitbox mechanics. Projectile attacks use projectile mechanics. Fury's medium is a melee attack, which you can determine because you have to intersect hitboxes for the attack to work. What it looks like is irrelevant. The designer's job is to make the character implementation work, the animator and visual effects artists' jobs is to make it look cool. Sometimes what they make doesn't precisely reflect real world physics. Since nothing really does in video games, and since nothing really does in the comic book source material, this is probably not a really big priority.

    Are you aware the code for melee attacks have a line, something like this, projectile:0-1? That line determines if the attack is or is not a projectile. Refer to Yondu being unparryable when someone mistakenly set his dash in medium attack to projectile: 1.
    I know enough to know that melee attacks, like all of the various attack specifics, are data structures and not code, and I know enough to know never go into the weeds with someone on technical implementation if they get that wrong even colloquially, because that never goes well.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Member Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    DNA3000 said:


    It sees them as contact hits because the hits actually have to hit the target. I'm pretty sure that medium attack doesn't deal damage unless you actually hit the target because I don't think it uses projectile mechanics.

    DNA3000 said:


    Melee attacks use hitbox mechanics. Projectile attacks use projectile mechanics. Fury's medium is a melee attack, which you can determine because you have to intersect hitboxes for the attack to work. What it looks like is irrelevant. The designer's job is to make the character implementation work, the animator and visual effects artists' jobs is to make it look cool. Sometimes what they make doesn't precisely reflect real world physics. Since nothing really does in video games, and since nothing really does in the comic book source material, this is probably not a really big priority.

    Are you aware the code for melee attacks have a line, something like this, projectile:0-1? That line determines if the attack is or is not a projectile. Refer to Yondu being unparryable when someone mistakenly set his dash in medium attack to projectile: 1.
    I know enough to know that melee attacks, like all of the various attack specifics, are data structures and not code, and I know enough to know never go into the weeds with someone on technical implementation if they get that wrong even colloquially, because that never goes well.
    W/e i don’t now exactly how it’s implemented, I was trying to get it across to someone who apparently had no idea attacks could be projectiles.

    I do however know enough to say you are completely wrong in the explanation due to how the game evidences the contrary in multiple instances. It’s not a projectile because it isn’t defined as one by the game; in spite of the fact it can do so.

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,675 Guardian
    I suppose I should state explicitly that while there are flags that determine if an attack is a "projectile" for the purposes of effects like Parry, there are separate design elements that determine if an attack behaves like a projectile for the purposes of determining if it hits, and it would be mostly confusing to discuss both simultaneously when one wasn't relevant.

    It is for the same reason that I've adjusted my language to say "there's no such thing as a Passive Debuff" even though the game literally has a tag called "Passive_Debuff" because that can only confuse players. It is better if people are told that there are Passives and there are Debuffs and there's no intersection between the two, even though technically this is a lie. It is an extremely important simplification (otherwise, I would have to explain that PassiveDebuffs are neither Passives nor Debuffs).

    Anyone aware of the implementation details would understand that simplification is necessary here, unless you want to spend dozens of pages explaining very deep mechanics before talking about whether an attack hits like a melee attack and is affected by strike back mechanics or hits like a projectile and generally (but not always) behaves as it it had more than melee range.
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