A. if they put new node like flare or buffet, ant man would be even better there.
B. your skill champ will still be there to counter ultron, spidey, nc, etc
C. r4 5* ant man before magik ,star lord or gwenpool is your fault.
Simple solution: just an in-game message for all of us with the following text: (title) A message from The Collector; (message) "Hello, dear Summoners. I've noticed that the Contest was not working smoothly for a looooooong time, which shouldn't happen. Please, accept these gifts as a sincere apology."
One or two 5* RDT's and three or four 4* RDT's will satisfy all players, regardless of all kinda "was not my fault" complaints.
RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.
I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.
The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.
The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.
I do not have the authority to "shoot down" a Thread. I do have the right to comment whether in support of the idea or not. Truth is that's not what they're for. Nothing about the Champs has been changed. The only instances where they would be brought back are major changes to the Champs themselves (nerfs), as stated by Mods. The situation does not apply. Just because people used them for Thorns and the Node is changing doesn't mean there is anything different about the Champs. Therefore, it does not negate Ranking them or warrant the necessity to change them. People can jump on that and imply I'm trying to play Mod, but that's what generally happens when someone expresses some facts and views that are not in sync with their own. I'm not stopping the discussion. Just pointing out that it's not what they are for. It seems like every change that comes, people want them.
Facts are different that Views. Stating a view or opinion as a fact is how missinformation gets spread.
You are interpreting your view about RDTs and stating it as fact.
Getting back to the OP. That is an interesting reason for having a Rank Down Ticket. I don't usually agree with RDTs but I think if Kabam took a look at this issue that would be appreciated. They should take an average of the champions on Thorns and see how that plays out with what the community is talking about.
This is similar to this hypothesis; What if Kabam changed it so AW Defenders were not affected the summoners Mastery.
Would this many people rank up MD, or rank up Magic/Juggs/Dormamu/etc?
It is fact when it's based on repeated comments from the Mods regarding RDT's. The subject has been brought up many times, and that's their stance. My view is that it doesn't apply to what they're for.
Ahh thank your for clarifying your comments.
Fact, mods have stated that RDTs are only for when big nerds/changes happen to champions
You're view, is that this particular issue does not fall under said mod statements as related to RDTs. Other people have a different view than yours.
So until a mod comes in and says that this situation does not apply to RDT it looks like everyone is just brainstorming ideas. No one is right or wrong, so cooling your jets in your condescending know it all tone might be appreciated by the other folks in this thread. You know, to keep things civil.
Fact, RDTs are specifically for champion changes not content changes, this has been addressed by mods in the past.
Fact, this issue is not a champion specific change.
Fact, the opening line in the OP is a misrepresentation of what has been said and people are basing their arguments and desires off of that falsehood.
Fact, people are grasping at straws in an effort to coax RDTs from Kabam.
Here is a moderator addressing this. /thread? Yeah right people are so desperate to exploit RDTs they'll do what ever mental gymnastics are required to argue for them.
Hiya Raa, there aren't any plans for releasing rank-down tickets for the release of 6-Stars. Rank-down tickets were initially given out because of changes that were made to specific Champs, but weren't intended to be given for changes that aren't made directly to specific Champions. The addition of 6-Star Champs in 2018 won't alter any Champions in players' rosters and these current rosters will continue to remain valuable. This is all a part of the natural progression of the Contest. Since the topic of rank-down tickets has been addressed before and our position hasn't changed, I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/93941#Comment_93941
That's exactly my point. The actual functionality of the Champ is not changed. Our application is elective. Now, if the removal of the Node somehow changed the Champ, I may see some validity. However, it does not. The Champ still performs the same regardless of what we use it for.
Hi. Wish to clarify this way.
I understand Dormammu (I don't have this champ) has a degen against champs which procs certain abilities.
Suppose, I rank Dormammu up to increase this degen ability or effect and it reaches the point of being OP.
Now, if the game developer in order to balance the champs; decides to put in every other champ an ability to nullify this degen. Nothing has changed for Dormammu. The degen is still there but it cannot work against any champs at all.
Does this warrants an action re "compensation" or whatever that is called?
Anyway, on face value, there is no change to the champ. Adora's post.
Yeah indirect nerfing needs to be accounted for a lot more. Every landscape altering adjustment affects values and the AM/thorns example is just one of them. I could manipulate any champ however I wanted without touching the base stats directly. If they adjust a mastery or take out a very champ specific war node the affected champs should potentially be given rdt consideration.
Arch angel has made magik much more manageable? Black widow made duped spidey easier. Do u consider adding champs that can more easily defeat an opponent to be an "indirect nerf"?
No the lock and key component has always existed in the game, they need to continue to present new challenges and solutions but what I'm saying is nerfs are done indirectly all the time and they get to wipe they're hands of them with no compensation because they don't directly change anything within the champs kit. Let's just assume eventually something is "adjusted" with MD because it's created a considerable disparity between Mystics and the other 5 classes. Everyone's Magik, Dorm, Hood, Mordo, DS, SW, Voodoo etc will all have effectively been nerfed. Your decision to rank them has been influenced by this mastery and suddenly things are different. You can't tell me that's not a nerf all affected champs should be atleast be given a window for rdt at a minimum and that doesn't even take into consideration awakenings or sig stones invested.
I think if its an adjustment to the mastery, then following the previous Will power and was it Leadership, there will be a refund of the invested mastery.
To summarize again. T2as were the rarest thing in the game. Their purpose was to make sure there was some kind of cap on progression. You used them on a champ like ant man or winter soldier, that was your choice. But you shouldn't get to undo that choice later bc now you are unsatisfied with the choice (I don't care that they changed nodes in war. It was still your choice to r4 an ant man). When rank down tickets were issued after 12.0, all the alliances that went crazy taking up terrible champs to 5* r4 for "prestige" ranked down their terrible champs and ranked up newer champs. That should have never beeen allowed by kabam and it should never be allowed again.
As for ranking down skill champs, they have other uses. Map 6 aq had a thorns node. They stop spidey evades. There are way more things in this game than thorns. And frankly, the fact that people have black widow at rank 5 for thorns nodes at all after her nerf baffles me. You had the chance to rank her down then and you didn't. You are getting a benefit of not having to bring a subpar champ to war now.
That's exactly my point. The actual functionality of the Champ is not changed. Our application is elective. Now, if the removal of the Node somehow changed the Champ, I may see some validity. However, it does not. The Champ still performs the same regardless of what we use it for.
Hi. Wish to clarify this way.
I understand Dormammu (I don't have this champ) has a degen against champs which procs certain abilities.
Suppose, I rank Dormammu up to increase this degen ability or effect and it reaches the point of being OP.
Now, if the game developer in order to balance the champs; decides to put in every other champ an ability to nullify this degen. Nothing has changed for Dormammu. The degen is still there but it cannot work against any champs at all.
Does this warrants an action re "compensation" or whatever that is called?
Anyway, on face value, there is no change to the champ. Adora's post.
Thanks for supporting my comment. Somehow the quotes got muffled. Lol.
A. if they put new node like flare or buffet, ant man would be even better there.
B. your skill champ will still be there to counter ultron, spidey, nc, etc
C. r4 5* ant man before magik ,star lord or gwenpool is your fault.
A. That node is too overpowered to be put in AW
B. Agreed no need for RDT in this one
C. I would have ranked them if I actually had them but you know SOME of us don't get that lucky to pull one of those champs and dupe them
I see both sides here. I feel your pain if you ranked specific champs to place on or deal with thorns. They are most likely useless now. On the other side of that coin those champs served their purpose, and helped you win wars and earn extra 5* shards that the losers didn't get and oh btw the avilabilty of t2a is supposed to increase as well now so you are in a good spot when that happens regardless. I am 50/50 on this. Would love to see a moderator statement or better yet something from the game team on why they would or would not consider the OP's original arguments valid.
All of the above said, I personally would love to see a small amount of rank down tickets issued for no particular reason but with no expiration date attached to them this time. The original batch felt rushed to me with all the incentive events running to encourage us to use them fast, not to mention they also had an expiration date. I would have loved to have been able to hold onto one or two for each star level to save forever as a failsafe for a future big mistake of ranking up a highly anticipated new champ that winds up being badly bugged or just complete garbage. (Think Phoenix when she was first released as a playable champ, it could happen again)
I see both sides here. I feel your pain if you ranked specific champs to place on or deal with thorns. They are most likely useless now. On the other side of that coin those champs served their purpose, and helped you win wars and earn extra 5* shards that the losers didn't get and oh btw the avilabilty of t2a is supposed to increase as well now so you are in a good spot when that happens regardless. I am 50/50 on this. Would love to see a moderator statement or better yet something from the game team on why they would or would not consider the OP's original arguments valid.
All of the above said, I personally would love to see a small amount of rank down tickets issued for no particular reason but with no expiration date attached to them this time. The original batch felt rushed to me with all the incentive events running to encourage us to use them fast, not to mention they also had an expiration date. I would have loved to have been able to hold onto one or two for each star level to save forever as a failsafe for a future big mistake of ranking up a highly anticipated new champ that winds up being badly bugged or just complete garbage. (Think Phoenix when she was first released as a playable champ, it could happen again)
Phoenix gets too much guff. She's capable of some great Damage with 5+ Fury. 10, and you're golden.
I agree. With Thorns gone, as also Slashed Tires, I would say a few rank down tickets are in order.
But if I know Kabam, I think the new patch may be a heaping pile of (cough) fertilizer and they may give rank downs to appease people when they re patch to fix it.
RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.
I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.
The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.
The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.
I do not have the authority to "shoot down" a Thread. I do have the right to comment whether in support of the idea or not. Truth is that's not what they're for. Nothing about the Champs has been changed. The only instances where they would be brought back are major changes to the Champs themselves (nerfs), as stated by Mods. The situation does not apply. Just because people used them for Thorns and the Node is changing doesn't mean there is anything different about the Champs. Therefore, it does not negate Ranking them or warrant the necessity to change them. People can jump on that and imply I'm trying to play Mod, but that's what generally happens when someone expresses some facts and views that are not in sync with their own. I'm not stopping the discussion. Just pointing out that it's not what they are for. It seems like every change that comes, people want them.
Facts are different that Views. Stating a view or opinion as a fact is how missinformation gets spread.
You are interpreting your view about RDTs and stating it as fact.
Getting back to the OP. That is an interesting reason for having a Rank Down Ticket. I don't usually agree with RDTs but I think if Kabam took a look at this issue that would be appreciated. They should take an average of the champions on Thorns and see how that plays out with what the community is talking about.
This is similar to this hypothesis; What if Kabam changed it so AW Defenders were not affected the summoners Mastery.
Would this many people rank up MD, or rank up Magic/Juggs/Dormamu/etc?
It is fact when it's based on repeated comments from the Mods regarding RDT's. The subject has been brought up many times, and that's their stance. My view is that it doesn't apply to what they're for.
Ahh thank your for clarifying your comments.
Fact, mods have stated that RDTs are only for when big nerds/changes happen to champions
You're view, is that this particular issue does not fall under said mod statements as related to RDTs. Other people have a different view than yours.
So until a mod comes in and says that this situation does not apply to RDT it looks like everyone is just brainstorming ideas. No one is right or wrong, so cooling your jets in your condescending know it all tone might be appreciated by the other folks in this thread. You know, to keep things civil.
Fact, RDTs are specifically for champion changes not content changes, this has been addressed by mods in the past.
Fact, this issue is not a champion specific change.
Fact, the opening line in the OP is a misrepresentation of what has been said and people are basing their arguments and desires off of that falsehood.
Fact, people are grasping at straws in an effort to coax RDTs from Kabam.
Here is a moderator addressing this. /thread? Yeah right people are so desperate to exploit RDTs they'll do what ever mental gymnastics are required to argue for them.
Hiya Raa, there aren't any plans for releasing rank-down tickets for the release of 6-Stars. Rank-down tickets were initially given out because of changes that were made to specific Champs, but weren't intended to be given for changes that aren't made directly to specific Champions. The addition of 6-Star Champs in 2018 won't alter any Champions in players' rosters and these current rosters will continue to remain valuable. This is all a part of the natural progression of the Contest. Since the topic of rank-down tickets has been addressed before and our position hasn't changed, I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/93941#Comment_93941
You keep using that word "Fact", I'm not sure it means what you think it means.
I definitely see the argument. I side with the call for rdt issuance, but that's cause I've been wanting to rank down my r4 ironman since I ranked him up haha. If rdt's don't come with this update, they certainly will when md gets nerfed. I still believe that ones coming down the pipe sometime soon
Your own accord drove you to bring Ant-Man to r4.
Sure hes no longer going to be suited to a specific node anymore (unless AW post 15.0 has nodes for poison and damage reduction) but your Ant-Man is a r4 5* champ...
I dont know anyone, real friends or in-game ones with a single 5* over r3...
Hes still gonna be a powerhouse against 90% of the 4* champions you'll face.
The hard fact is that kabam is doing all they can to destroy their business model with this game. Whatever happened to them discussing changes with a beta team? We haven't heard anything about those if it even happens. Who would have thought these changes would be a good thing?
As for RDT, it is beyond obvious this is what their customers want. They aren't listening and their arguments suck. I'm not going to say that everyone will mass quit over this but I think we all know some alliances that are going to take big hours because people are tired of the cash grab. I myself am considering how involved I want to be at this point.
Furthermore, the fact that we have 120 comments on this thread and the moderators have been silent is astonishing. Not just this thread, but if you look in general discussion, it's like they're all on vacation. I've found this to be an issue since moving to this new forum
Sorry but if they give rank down tickets for this then what's to stop someone from saying they need one for Hulkbuster, or Collosus, or even Iron Man, or SIM? You can argue that many champs are solid choices for the thorns nodes. Who decides which of those champs have legit gripes and should get rank down tickets and which ones are not good choices and therefore won't get tickets.
It seems that every time a change is made people think they deserve Rank Down Tickets. Kabam has been very clear that they don't want to ever have to give them out again. IF they do get into a situation where they are necessary it will only be because of direct changes to a champions abilities. ie. if they someday decide Hyperion's power gain is too much and reduce it then you can probably expect to get a rank down ticket that will be locked for use only on Hyperion.
Outside of very specific examples like that you may as well just stop asking for tickets. It's not going to happen.
I literally just took my double dupe 5* antman to r3 literally for the sole purpose of placing him on thorns. No other reason, so to the idiots saying other wise you're wrong.
I'll live with it if our Kabam over Lords decide no, but even a single rdt would be appreciated. Dont need a big dump of them like last time but 1 of 2 would be excellent.
2 is perfect. One for offense and one for defense. It really does nothing to hurt their bottomline while it makes us feel much better about these unavoidable changes.
Who are you wanting to rank down and who are you wanting to rank up?
I'd probably rank down Falcon since AV can cover my AW evasion avoidance and electro isn't going to wreck me if I run into him. Falcon was specifically for thorn paths. I'm sure many RTDs wouldn't go to champs affected by these changes, but it's not like all the 12.0 tickets went to SW and DS either. I'm just not seeing the downside to people who aren't bothered by the changes, other than you want people to be unhappy while you act superior for making better rank up choices.
The hard fact is that kabam is doing all they can to destroy their business model with this game. Whatever happened to them discussing changes with a beta team? We haven't heard anything about those if it even happens. Who would have thought these changes would be a good thing?
As for RDT, it is beyond obvious this is what their customers want. They aren't listening and their arguments suck. I'm not going to say that everyone will mass quit over this but I think we all know some alliances that are going to take big hours because people are tired of the cash grab. I myself am considering how involved I want to be at this point.
Furthermore, the fact that we have 120 comments on this thread and the moderators have been silent is astonishing. Not just this thread, but if you look in general discussion, it's like they're all on vacation. I've found this to be an issue since moving to this new forum
This game is definitely turning into a bad investment. I won't stop playing, but paying isn't looking attractive when they keep changing things for such obviou$ reason$. If you've tried talking about the cash grab stuff, then you'll see the moderators are very hard at work removing those threads and comments immediately. I'm glad this thread hasn't been closed down yet.
If they'd be more open about the process, then people would shut up and wait to see what happens. If there will be tons of degen nodes, then Antman and other long fight defenders could still be useful. Honestly, I wish they'd leave thorns alone since it wasn't that hard as long as people brought the right champ instead of trying to bull through it. You don't remove bleed nodes because people aren't smart enough to bring immunities, so why remove thorns because they don't bring defensive ability reducers? It required people to have different teams for different paths. If you want diversity, this is the wrong way to bring it about.
Also, Degen looks to be unavoidable damage leading to more health pots needed no matter what champ you bring, so removing thorns for more of these nodes was definitely not for our benefit.
Reading through a few discussions for the first time since this game is taking a turn downward and I'd like to see it stop happening. BUT I think @Run477 may just be a Kabam employee that likes to keep these threads balanced. And to argue with everyone due to his superiority complex..
Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.
You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.
The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.
Reading through a few discussions for the first time since this game is taking a turn downward and I'd like to see it stop happening. BUT I think @Run477 may just be a Kabam employee that likes to keep these threads balanced. And to argue with everyone due to his superiority complex..
Lmao. That's funny. I actually think rank down tickets should not be allowed for r4 5* champs (and never thought they should have been). People took these champs up for whatever reason. I face a lot of alliances that "require" two r4 champs for prestige in aq--one alliance was requiring 3 by September. They aren't even shy about it--it's on their alliance pages. But, after these alliances shoot up in prestige for higher aq rewards and used those champs in war to get more 5* shards (and better 5* champs), they want to keep the rewards and want different r4 champs.
I understand that this is what they want, but it's not how the game was designed. I honestly don't know why kabam allowed rtds for 5* champs. The main nerfs weren't 5* champs at all. In fact, that would be the "best" argument for rtds which no one has really made. Kabam gave rtds when the game was fundamentally altered under 12.0 regardless of which champs were actually nerfed since the 5* champs weren't really nerfed at all (off the top of my head, only star lord was "nerfed," but it's been so long, I can't remember how big of a difference I saw). How is this change to alliance wars different? (I still would be opposed to rtds for r4 5* champs but at least I think this would be a slightly more appropriate apples to apples comparison). Maybe the answer is challenger rating and flat value was the nerf to champs? But that doesn't fundamentally alter them the way switch and Thor were fundamentally altered.
Those arguing against RDTs are not wrong on the letter of Kabam's policy regarding them. Whether these champs are reduced in use after this change, they are not directly changed, which is all the justification Kabam would need to deny RDTs, as the mentioned reasons for handing them out do not apply in case of changing a game mode.
What Kabam CAN do, is change the prerequisites for handing out RDTs to cover such indirect changes, as it is their policy to modify as they see fit. Whether they opt to do so is entirely up to them, or if they just give some out as a 'feel good' gesture.
Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.
You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.
The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.
The Champs aren't performing differently at all. The Node is no longer there. The Champ still behaves the same as it always did. RDTs are not for changes to content. That's essentially saying that Ranking a Champ is not worth as much when that's Player opinion, and not the opinion of the game team. As I've said before, who you Rank and for what reason is up to you. The Champs aren't being changed, and that is what the RDTs are intended for. Fact.
Between the 6 star announcement (which with CR has indeed "nerfed" all 4 stars in the game) and the changes to AW, it really is time for another round or RDTs.
You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.
The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.
The Champs aren't performing differently at all. The Node is no longer there. The Champ still behaves the same as it always did. RDTs are not for changes to content. That's essentially saying that Ranking a Champ is not worth as much when that's Player opinion, and not the opinion of the game team. As I've said before, who you Rank and for what reason is up to you. The Champs aren't being changed, and that is what the RDTs are intended for. Fact.
100% agree with this analysis.
I would also make one more point. You have no clue whether these champs will serve a purpose in later content or in some event (minus ant man who just sucks--I'm sorry, but I still can't get past the number of people who ranked up an ant man for "thorns." Thorns is a damagin tile regardless of who you put there. Some are obviously better than others, but ranking up an ant man solely for thorns is just...yeah...I have beaten this horse to death). To just assume someone like black widow (who is a shell of her former self anyway) or Elektra will have no use on the new alliance war map is pure speculation. Just bc there isn't thorns, doesn't mean there won't be a different node that could benefit by an ability accuracy reduction champ. Lets say there is a stun immune node with increased abilities. U would want an ability reduction champ to tryto switch nightcrawler. You also don't know what 5.3 may bring. Granted a 4* champ against 6* champs may not be viable for other reasons, but it's also possible an ability reduction champ could be useful.
I see both sides here. I feel your pain if you ranked specific champs to place on or deal with thorns. They are most likely useless now. On the other side of that coin those champs served their purpose, and helped you win wars and earn extra 5* shards that the losers didn't get and oh btw the avilabilty of t2a is supposed to increase as well now so you are in a good spot when that happens regardless. I am 50/50 on this. Would love to see a moderator statement or better yet something from the game team on why they would or would not consider the OP's original arguments valid.
All of the above said, I personally would love to see a small amount of rank down tickets issued for no particular reason but with no expiration date attached to them this time. The original batch felt rushed to me with all the incentive events running to encourage us to use them fast, not to mention they also had an expiration date. I would have loved to have been able to hold onto one or two for each star level to save forever as a failsafe for a future big mistake of ranking up a highly anticipated new champ that winds up being badly bugged or just complete garbage. (Think Phoenix when she was first released as a playable champ, it could happen again)
Phoenix gets too much guff. She's capable of some great Damage with 5+ Fury. 10, and you're golden.
I said she was really bad the first few months, not now. She has been fixed recently and is a bit better but who wants to rank up a new champ on day 1 when they are released then have to deal with them being bugged for months before engineering time can be put in by the game team to fix them? I value your opinion, but it would be best if going forward you read comments fully before you directly reply to them.
RDT's are for change to the Champ themselves. Not for the application of them. Nothing is being changed about the Champs.
I mostly agree but in some cases changes to the applications of certain champions could warrant RDTs. I personally feel no need to have rank down tickets but I can see the perspective of players who do. When will power was indirectly nerfed not scaling with inflated health people ranked down many champions because they were good only because of will power. The most glaring case was hulkbuster, pre 12.0 HB was a fantastic defender since will power made him take so little damage and with willpower nerfed he had no use as a defender any more so a many people used rdts to rank him down. Antman, luke cage, cyclops and colossus were mainly defender due to thorns nodes but now they are next to useless as defenders so even though the characters themselves weren't changed they might as well have been since one of their main uses were taken away.
The use of Champs in aspects like War is not the same as changing the actual performance of a Champ. Who people use in War is entirely up to them. They could have used SG on Thorns if they chose. Obviously not clever, but you get my point. The integrity of the Champ is not changed. Only an aspect of War that people most commonly used them on. It's not the same. It doesn't warrant RDT's. The Champs themselves have not been altered.
The integrity may not have changed, but the utility and in-game value of some champs certainly has. Starting in September, some champs will have less utility than they do this month. While the champ may not have changed, his or her usefulness has.
I'm not sure where I stand on the issue, but you should let a mod shoot it down and not feel obliged to do it yourself. Just my opinion.
I do not have the authority to "shoot down" a Thread. I do have the right to comment whether in support of the idea or not. Truth is that's not what they're for. Nothing about the Champs has been changed. The only instances where they would be brought back are major changes to the Champs themselves (nerfs), as stated by Mods. The situation does not apply. Just because people used them for Thorns and the Node is changing doesn't mean there is anything different about the Champs. Therefore, it does not negate Ranking them or warrant the necessity to change them. People can jump on that and imply I'm trying to play Mod, but that's what generally happens when someone expresses some facts and views that are not in sync with their own. I'm not stopping the discussion. Just pointing out that it's not what they are for. It seems like every change that comes, people want them.
Facts are different that Views. Stating a view or opinion as a fact is how missinformation gets spread.
You are interpreting your view about RDTs and stating it as fact.
Getting back to the OP. That is an interesting reason for having a Rank Down Ticket. I don't usually agree with RDTs but I think if Kabam took a look at this issue that would be appreciated. They should take an average of the champions on Thorns and see how that plays out with what the community is talking about.
This is similar to this hypothesis; What if Kabam changed it so AW Defenders were not affected the summoners Mastery.
Would this many people rank up MD, or rank up Magic/Juggs/Dormamu/etc?
It is fact when it's based on repeated comments from the Mods regarding RDT's. The subject has been brought up many times, and that's their stance. My view is that it doesn't apply to what they're for.
Ahh thank your for clarifying your comments.
Fact, mods have stated that RDTs are only for when big nerds/changes happen to champions
You're view, is that this particular issue does not fall under said mod statements as related to RDTs. Other people have a different view than yours.
So until a mod comes in and says that this situation does not apply to RDT it looks like everyone is just brainstorming ideas. No one is right or wrong, so cooling your jets in your condescending know it all tone might be appreciated by the other folks in this thread. You know, to keep things civil.
Fact, RDTs are specifically for champion changes not content changes, this has been addressed by mods in the past.
Fact, this issue is not a champion specific change.
Fact, the opening line in the OP is a misrepresentation of what has been said and people are basing their arguments and desires off of that falsehood.
Fact, people are grasping at straws in an effort to coax RDTs from Kabam.
Here is a moderator addressing this. /thread? Yeah right people are so desperate to exploit RDTs they'll do what ever mental gymnastics are required to argue for them.
Hiya Raa, there aren't any plans for releasing rank-down tickets for the release of 6-Stars. Rank-down tickets were initially given out because of changes that were made to specific Champs, but weren't intended to be given for changes that aren't made directly to specific Champions. The addition of 6-Star Champs in 2018 won't alter any Champions in players' rosters and these current rosters will continue to remain valuable. This is all a part of the natural progression of the Contest. Since the topic of rank-down tickets has been addressed before and our position hasn't changed, I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/93941#Comment_93941
You keep using that word "Fact", I'm not sure it means what you think it means.
Sincerely,
Inigo Montoya
Yes ignore every statement made by Kabam about RDTs so you can shape and deny reality to support tired internet memes, seems legit, no actually that's flat earth logic good luck with that.
Comments
B. your skill champ will still be there to counter ultron, spidey, nc, etc
C. r4 5* ant man before magik ,star lord or gwenpool is your fault.
One or two 5* RDT's and three or four 4* RDT's will satisfy all players, regardless of all kinda "was not my fault" complaints.
Fact, this issue is not a champion specific change.
Fact, the opening line in the OP is a misrepresentation of what has been said and people are basing their arguments and desires off of that falsehood.
Fact, people are grasping at straws in an effort to coax RDTs from Kabam.
Here is a moderator addressing this. /thread? Yeah right people are so desperate to exploit RDTs they'll do what ever mental gymnastics are required to argue for them.
Hiya Raa, there aren't any plans for releasing rank-down tickets for the release of 6-Stars. Rank-down tickets were initially given out because of changes that were made to specific Champs, but weren't intended to be given for changes that aren't made directly to specific Champions. The addition of 6-Star Champs in 2018 won't alter any Champions in players' rosters and these current rosters will continue to remain valuable. This is all a part of the natural progression of the Contest. Since the topic of rank-down tickets has been addressed before and our position hasn't changed, I'm gonna go ahead and close this thread. https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/93941#Comment_93941
No the lock and key component has always existed in the game, they need to continue to present new challenges and solutions but what I'm saying is nerfs are done indirectly all the time and they get to wipe they're hands of them with no compensation because they don't directly change anything within the champs kit. Let's just assume eventually something is "adjusted" with MD because it's created a considerable disparity between Mystics and the other 5 classes. Everyone's Magik, Dorm, Hood, Mordo, DS, SW, Voodoo etc will all have effectively been nerfed. Your decision to rank them has been influenced by this mastery and suddenly things are different. You can't tell me that's not a nerf all affected champs should be atleast be given a window for rdt at a minimum and that doesn't even take into consideration awakenings or sig stones invested.
As for ranking down skill champs, they have other uses. Map 6 aq had a thorns node. They stop spidey evades. There are way more things in this game than thorns. And frankly, the fact that people have black widow at rank 5 for thorns nodes at all after her nerf baffles me. You had the chance to rank her down then and you didn't. You are getting a benefit of not having to bring a subpar champ to war now.
That sounds pointless.
B. Agreed no need for RDT in this one
C. I would have ranked them if I actually had them but you know SOME of us don't get that lucky to pull one of those champs and dupe them
All of the above said, I personally would love to see a small amount of rank down tickets issued for no particular reason but with no expiration date attached to them this time. The original batch felt rushed to me with all the incentive events running to encourage us to use them fast, not to mention they also had an expiration date. I would have loved to have been able to hold onto one or two for each star level to save forever as a failsafe for a future big mistake of ranking up a highly anticipated new champ that winds up being badly bugged or just complete garbage. (Think Phoenix when she was first released as a playable champ, it could happen again)
Phoenix gets too much guff. She's capable of some great Damage with 5+ Fury. 10, and you're golden.
But if I know Kabam, I think the new patch may be a heaping pile of (cough) fertilizer and they may give rank downs to appease people when they re patch to fix it.
You keep using that word "Fact", I'm not sure it means what you think it means.
Sincerely,
Inigo Montoya
Sure hes no longer going to be suited to a specific node anymore (unless AW post 15.0 has nodes for poison and damage reduction) but your Ant-Man is a r4 5* champ...
I dont know anyone, real friends or in-game ones with a single 5* over r3...
Hes still gonna be a powerhouse against 90% of the 4* champions you'll face.
As for RDT, it is beyond obvious this is what their customers want. They aren't listening and their arguments suck. I'm not going to say that everyone will mass quit over this but I think we all know some alliances that are going to take big hours because people are tired of the cash grab. I myself am considering how involved I want to be at this point.
Furthermore, the fact that we have 120 comments on this thread and the moderators have been silent is astonishing. Not just this thread, but if you look in general discussion, it's like they're all on vacation. I've found this to be an issue since moving to this new forum
It seems that every time a change is made people think they deserve Rank Down Tickets. Kabam has been very clear that they don't want to ever have to give them out again. IF they do get into a situation where they are necessary it will only be because of direct changes to a champions abilities. ie. if they someday decide Hyperion's power gain is too much and reduce it then you can probably expect to get a rank down ticket that will be locked for use only on Hyperion.
Outside of very specific examples like that you may as well just stop asking for tickets. It's not going to happen.
I'd probably rank down Falcon since AV can cover my AW evasion avoidance and electro isn't going to wreck me if I run into him. Falcon was specifically for thorn paths. I'm sure many RTDs wouldn't go to champs affected by these changes, but it's not like all the 12.0 tickets went to SW and DS either. I'm just not seeing the downside to people who aren't bothered by the changes, other than you want people to be unhappy while you act superior for making better rank up choices.
This game is definitely turning into a bad investment. I won't stop playing, but paying isn't looking attractive when they keep changing things for such obviou$ reason$. If you've tried talking about the cash grab stuff, then you'll see the moderators are very hard at work removing those threads and comments immediately. I'm glad this thread hasn't been closed down yet.
If they'd be more open about the process, then people would shut up and wait to see what happens. If there will be tons of degen nodes, then Antman and other long fight defenders could still be useful. Honestly, I wish they'd leave thorns alone since it wasn't that hard as long as people brought the right champ instead of trying to bull through it. You don't remove bleed nodes because people aren't smart enough to bring immunities, so why remove thorns because they don't bring defensive ability reducers? It required people to have different teams for different paths. If you want diversity, this is the wrong way to bring it about.
Also, Degen looks to be unavoidable damage leading to more health pots needed no matter what champ you bring, so removing thorns for more of these nodes was definitely not for our benefit.
You can argue (like @GroundedWisdom ) that the champs themsleves are not being changed, but you can NOT argue that those same champs will perform DIFFERENTLY in this "new" set up. This is the case for people calling it an "indirect" nerf.
The champs you use today in the game will no longer have the exact same ability once these changes are made. That's FACT. This is a perfect time for RDTs.
Lmao. That's funny. I actually think rank down tickets should not be allowed for r4 5* champs (and never thought they should have been). People took these champs up for whatever reason. I face a lot of alliances that "require" two r4 champs for prestige in aq--one alliance was requiring 3 by September. They aren't even shy about it--it's on their alliance pages. But, after these alliances shoot up in prestige for higher aq rewards and used those champs in war to get more 5* shards (and better 5* champs), they want to keep the rewards and want different r4 champs.
I understand that this is what they want, but it's not how the game was designed. I honestly don't know why kabam allowed rtds for 5* champs. The main nerfs weren't 5* champs at all. In fact, that would be the "best" argument for rtds which no one has really made. Kabam gave rtds when the game was fundamentally altered under 12.0 regardless of which champs were actually nerfed since the 5* champs weren't really nerfed at all (off the top of my head, only star lord was "nerfed," but it's been so long, I can't remember how big of a difference I saw). How is this change to alliance wars different? (I still would be opposed to rtds for r4 5* champs but at least I think this would be a slightly more appropriate apples to apples comparison). Maybe the answer is challenger rating and flat value was the nerf to champs? But that doesn't fundamentally alter them the way switch and Thor were fundamentally altered.
What Kabam CAN do, is change the prerequisites for handing out RDTs to cover such indirect changes, as it is their policy to modify as they see fit. Whether they opt to do so is entirely up to them, or if they just give some out as a 'feel good' gesture.
The Champs aren't performing differently at all. The Node is no longer there. The Champ still behaves the same as it always did. RDTs are not for changes to content. That's essentially saying that Ranking a Champ is not worth as much when that's Player opinion, and not the opinion of the game team. As I've said before, who you Rank and for what reason is up to you. The Champs aren't being changed, and that is what the RDTs are intended for. Fact.
100% agree with this analysis.
I would also make one more point. You have no clue whether these champs will serve a purpose in later content or in some event (minus ant man who just sucks--I'm sorry, but I still can't get past the number of people who ranked up an ant man for "thorns." Thorns is a damagin tile regardless of who you put there. Some are obviously better than others, but ranking up an ant man solely for thorns is just...yeah...I have beaten this horse to death). To just assume someone like black widow (who is a shell of her former self anyway) or Elektra will have no use on the new alliance war map is pure speculation. Just bc there isn't thorns, doesn't mean there won't be a different node that could benefit by an ability accuracy reduction champ. Lets say there is a stun immune node with increased abilities. U would want an ability reduction champ to tryto switch nightcrawler. You also don't know what 5.3 may bring. Granted a 4* champ against 6* champs may not be viable for other reasons, but it's also possible an ability reduction champ could be useful.
I said she was really bad the first few months, not now. She has been fixed recently and is a bit better but who wants to rank up a new champ on day 1 when they are released then have to deal with them being bugged for months before engineering time can be put in by the game team to fix them? I value your opinion, but it would be best if going forward you read comments fully before you directly reply to them.