Question about AAR

NerdNerdNerd1

so how does AAR reduce accuracy, specifically talking about AA's aar. so for instance lets say a champ has a 33% percent chance to evade, and i have one neuro up, would that reduce the chance to 0%, or would it take 33% of their 33% chance to evade?

NerdNerdNerd1

"or would it take 33% of their 33% chance to evade?" i meant to say 1/3 of their chance to evade so basically 11%

Seraphion

It gets more complex tho.
If there is a node with lets say + 50% AA
= they have 150% then.

If you come with 3 neuros and -100% they will end on 50% AA

This is a bit stupid but thats how kabams math works

DNA3000

NerdNerdNerd1 said:

so how does AAR reduce accuracy, specifically talking about AA's aar. so for instance lets say a champ has a 33% percent chance to evade, and i have one neuro up, would that reduce the chance to 0%, or would it take 33% of their 33% chance to evade?

Normally, I'd say that percentages subtract, but this is one of those cases where there is an invisible mechanic you're probably unaware of that complicates this a bit. Every champion actually has an ability accuracy stat. It isn't shown in the character attributes, but it is there. There's even a loading screen tip that describes it. Every champ has an ability accuracy stat that is 100% by default. Every ability they use that itself has ability accuracy automatically has the ability's ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy stat. That "invisible multiplication" happens constantly for all ability triggers with ability accuracy.

When you debuff a target's ability accuracy, you are NOT debuffing every single ability of that champion independently. If the champ has a 33% chance to evade, you are not debuffing that chance directly. Instead, you're generally debuffing that champions actual ability accuracy stat, from 100% down to 67% (100 - 33). The game itself calculates the champion's evade chance as 33% times the champ's current ability accuracy stat, which is now 67%.

So even here, debuffs are *subtracting* not *multiplying*, it is just that they are subtracting from a stat you might not realize all champions have.

Continuing the thought, in the example that @Seraphion describes above, what's happening is the champion has 100% ability accuracy, then they are sitting on a node with +50% AA so their actual ability accuracy stat is now 150% (100% + 50%), and your 33% ability accuracy debuff subtracts from that, so one debuff would be 100% + 50% - 33% = 117%. Three debuffs would be 100% + 50% - 33% - 33% - 33% = 51% (assuming the debuffs were -33% each).

Is this "stupid" as Seraphion states? Not really, it is a game design choice. Consider the general case. Suppose you have a champion with an ability that buffs (strengthens) you in general. And you face a node that debuffs you by 100%. Is it fair that if a node debuffs you by 100% then NO BUFF IN EXISTENCE HOWEVER STRONG does anything, ever? In other words, 100% buff plus -100% debuff equals zero, and 100000% buff plus -100% debuff equals zero, and 10000000000% buff plus -100% debuff also equals zero? A lot of people would think that was nonsensical. The game just treats percentages and probabilities the same as it does all other buff/debuff situations to be consistent.

Seraphion

@DNA3000

I guess thats something you can argue about.
Imo it does confuse a lot of ppl when omega takes massive bleed damage on + bleeddamage nodes, medusa doesnt shut down powergain from robots on powergain nodes, Rulk takes a lot of incinerate damage on + incinerate nodes and same with - + AA.
Its stupid bc noone understands it the first time they read it.
If you develop something and confuse 99% for your custumers with it (lets be real we are prob part of the 1% that knows these things) its bad. At least that my opinion on it.

And to your examples:
There are champs that are immune to AAR for example. So they could bypass it.
And if the node says: def has 100% crit resist then everybody would think "ah I cant crit here" except I have some special ability that alows me to always crit. That is just logical.
This + - % makes the game a lot more confusing and lets be honest kabam sometimes doesnt even know what their own game is doing (remember when they banned ppl that used quake bc she did 0 hits?). So simple might be a good idea.
Again just my opinion tho

DNA3000

Seraphion said:

Its stupid bc noone understands it the first time they read it.
If you develop something and confuse 99% for your custumers with it (lets be real we are prob part of the 1% that knows these things) its bad. At least that my opinion on it.

I would agree in principle, except for the fact that literally no implementation doesn't confuse most players, because it isn't that most people agree on how things should be and games just don't follow that, it is that most people don't agree consistently in every circumstance so there's no way for any game implementation to make every situation work out to how the majority of people want that situation to go. Often times, the majority of people have an expectation that isn't representable in consistent math.

The only kinds of implementation where I've found it is even remotely possible to get some reasonable consistency in how you explain it are implementations that use math that ironically game designers don't use because they aren't great at math and the math is more difficult to make do what they want to do. And that is universally proportional buff and debuff systems. But I wouldn't get me started on that one.