Has FLOW ruined Alliance War?

JosephPoerio

Has the FLOW defense tactic made Alliance War less fun? Too difficult? Should it be modified/removed? Feel free to explain your reasoning.

-sixate-

AW has always been terrible. The only ones who win are the people who work for Kabam. I've always hated war.

Championcritic

Too early to say haha, we just started using flow. I have no idea why flow suddenly became so popular seemingly out of nowhere.

Demonzfyre

-sixate- said:

AW has always been terrible. The only ones who win are the people who work for Kabam. I've always hated war.

So all those alliances on the leaderboards work for kabam? Never knew they had 10k+ employees.

-sixate-

Demonzfyre said:

-sixate- said:

AW has always been terrible. The only ones who win are the people who work for Kabam. I've always hated war.

So all those alliances on the leaderboards work for kabam? Never knew they had 10k+ employees.

No, I'm saying only Kabam wins by making us screw each other over to use items on war.

Okaythen

-sixate- said:

Demonzfyre said:

-sixate- said:

AW has always been terrible. The only ones who win are the people who work for Kabam. I've always hated war.

So all those alliances on the leaderboards work for kabam? Never knew they had 10k+ employees.

No, I'm saying only Kabam wins by making us screw each other over to use items on war.

I’m sorry I would not want to screw with you at all

Masterpuff

Yes

War is trash

SuperiorSymbiote

No

Only reason I put no is becuase you people keep spamming in about this someone needs to make a thread or kabam needs to fix this I’m going with the second option being that I’m tired of seeing these complaints

JosephPoerio

Masterpuff said:

War is trash

Let’s keep it constructive so the post doesn’t get removed.

JosephPoerio

SuperiorSymbiote said:

Only reason I put no is becuase you people keep spamming in about this someone needs to make a thread or kabam needs to fix this I’m going with the second option being that I’m tired of seeing these complaints

It’s my understanding from your posts on other threads that you don’t compete in a high enough tier to understand the complications introduced by FLOW. If this is incorrect, and you do understand, then please provide some constructive feedback. To vote “No” just because you’re “tired of seeing complaints” seems a bit immature.

SuperiorSymbiote

No

It’s also come to my understanding that I really don’t care what’s dished out at me in the end who ends up winning

GroundedWisdom

No

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

Plantesan

Yes

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

( Yes/no answer) have you played in a high-tiered match with that global node on yet?

Unknown

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JosephPoerio

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

You make some great points and I agree with most of them. Tiers 1-5 should be more difficult, they should cost more items, they should have less counters, and there should be more deaths. I think the real question (and the reason for my post) is how much is too much? At what point is it TOO difficult? TOO few counters? TOO many deaths? After all this IS a game, it should be fun. If people in higher tiers aren’t having fun anymore shouldn’t a change be considered?

Unknown

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King_Leo321

My personal advice is learn to ghost instead of using wasp and good synergy otherwise you will always be screwed.You have to bring specific counters for specific champion.You can't just use one champion and bring synergies for the entire war.Things have changed just because you haven't ranked up specific champions that doesn't means it's Kabam fault

Dsc0721

Guys this is the next broken global they will fix it probably next season and then there will be a new one to complain about, flow isn’t fun, especially stun immune, either they need to ramp up the other tactics or reduce the potency or flow, the issue is that when 1 tactic is so much more over powered then the rest everyone just uses that tactic there might as well not even be a choice. Balance is the issue here. If all of them where op you wouldn’t see complaints about flow, you would just see general war complaints, and those exist already. But flow is a problem, until it’s nerfed and the next broken tactic is the problem.

GroundedWisdom

No

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

( Yes/no answer) have you played in a high-tiered match with that global node on yet?

That's not a rebuttal to the points I made. Not once did I say it was based on my own experience. That's just a way to bypass what someone is saying by calling out their experience.

GroundedWisdom

No

JosephPoerio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

You make some great points and I agree with most of them. Tiers 1-5 should be more difficult, they should cost more items, they should have less counters, and there should be more deaths. I think the real question (and the reason for my post) is how much is too much? At what point is it TOO difficult? TOO few counters? TOO many deaths? After all this IS a game, it should be fun. If people in higher tiers aren’t having fun anymore shouldn’t a change be considered?

I understand. I suppose it depends on what they find at the end of this Season. There's been a great deal of feedback on it. I guess we will have to wait and see when they reevaluate it.

Plantesan

Yes

GroundedWisdom said:

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

( Yes/no answer) have you played in a high-tiered match with that global node on yet?

That's not a rebuttal to the points I made. Not once did I say it was based on my own experience. That's just a way to bypass what someone is saying by calling out their experience.

Ffs man I agree that change can be good when game modes get stale/routine.

This just seems like another nightmare global node where unless players have the proper counters (which also depends on the luck of the pull) then it comes off as another “jump in and hope for the best” situation

Be as objective as you can but if you haven’t gotten a taste of a champ benefitting from the node, the objectivity can only go so far.

Unknown

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BeoWulff

Yes

It’s not fun at all to have a stun immune controlled defender nor require skills, it’s just you narrow the contest into a few champs suitable counters.
Definitely ruined the AW.

EvilEmpire

Yes

I don’t see how this is much different than MD wars. Got to the point where almost everyone checked out and did the minimum.

It really demonstrates how little Kabam understands their own game. The defenders have gotten so complicated that they require a specific counter but yet suddenly anyone who crits is basically off the board. The list of useable champs is way too short and once you start factoring in the node interactions it just doesn’t seem reasonable at all.

EvilEmpire

Yes

GroundedWisdom said:

JosephPoerio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

You make some great points and I agree with most of them. Tiers 1-5 should be more difficult, they should cost more items, they should have less counters, and there should be more deaths. I think the real question (and the reason for my post) is how much is too much? At what point is it TOO difficult? TOO few counters? TOO many deaths? After all this IS a game, it should be fun. If people in higher tiers aren’t having fun anymore shouldn’t a change be considered?

I understand. I suppose it depends on what they find at the end of this Season. There's been a great deal of feedback on it. I guess we will have to wait and see when they reevaluate it.

No they don’t need to wait on feed back we’ve already played this silly OP power gain game before and when they finally decided to move on from that the game was considerably more fun for it. Why do we need to come back to death after death to s3.

KnightZero

Yes

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

Going to break down based on your points.
1) Yes Flow is a global node, can be removed or change. But as it is, we're basically regressing back to MD wars. Which was why MD was changed. There's a difference between challenging and rubbish. It's why there have been so many threads lol.
2) 'T1-T5 wars are meant to be hard'. That's why the local nodes are way harder than lower ones. It's why we have globals. That doesn't excuse a global that is too hard. Counters are fine, but having around 10 champs who can manage out of so many is not fun when champs are RNG based.
3) Alliances that don't belong there will still remain. Because they face each other. Not us.
4) Lesser options to fight? They're not giving us T5cc that we need to item out. And it's not lack of skill. It's just rubbish mechanics. Also, where is there same degree of difficulty? See the nodes. See the champs you face at that level. Each champ is a 4/55 or 5/65 at T4 itself. Your logic of it being this hard for rewards would make sense if we were getting all endgame rewards.

Mart83

Yes

We play t2 wars and came across a symbiote supreme tonight on debuff immune. I brought ghost and hood being one of the only realistic counter for that and had to eat about 3 sp3s in 40 seconds and dodge countless sp2’s once he went into his power gain phase. Where is the fun in that? War is meant to be a challenge I agree but that’s just complete and utter rubbish in my opinion.

KnightZero

Yes

King_Leo321 said:

My personal advice is learn to ghost instead of using wasp and good synergy otherwise you will always be screwed.You have to bring specific counters for specific champion.You can't just use one champion and bring synergies for the entire war.Things have changed just because you haven't ranked up specific champions that doesn't means it's Kabam fault

I don't use Ghost. The logic that everyone complaining uses Ghost/Corvus and so can't handle it is false. And about ranking up champs, you can only rank up specific champs if you have them.
Kabam has always spoken about not being champ selective but skill and each champ should be able to beat. This doesn't follow what they've been preaching.

KDoggg2017

GroundedWisdom said:

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

( Yes/no answer) have you played in a high-tiered match with that global node on yet?

That's not a rebuttal to the points I made. Not once did I say it was based on my own experience. That's just a way to bypass what someone is saying by calling out their experience.

Would you take tax advice from a kindergartener? Of course not! Wanna know why?
Experience is 100% relevant to a person's argument. 🤓

GroundedWisdom

No

EvilEmpire said:

GroundedWisdom said:

JosephPoerio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

You make some great points and I agree with most of them. Tiers 1-5 should be more difficult, they should cost more items, they should have less counters, and there should be more deaths. I think the real question (and the reason for my post) is how much is too much? At what point is it TOO difficult? TOO few counters? TOO many deaths? After all this IS a game, it should be fun. If people in higher tiers aren’t having fun anymore shouldn’t a change be considered?

I understand. I suppose it depends on what they find at the end of this Season. There's been a great deal of feedback on it. I guess we will have to wait and see when they reevaluate it.

No they don’t need to wait on feed back we’ve already played this silly OP power gain game before and when they finally decided to move on from that the game was considerably more fun for it. Why do we need to come back to death after death to s3.

The Season is already underway. I doubt they're going to halt everything to remove Flow. Especially after last Season. I think people are going to have to wait.

GroundedWisdom

No

KDoggg2017 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Without getting involved in the whole "You don't play there." argument, I'll look at it objectively. On the surface, it's a Node. It can be removed or changed, so it hasn't ruined War as a whole. It's just challenging. Also, it's in Tiers 1-5, and they are logically meant to be hard. Otherwise, War isn't really a challenging competition at all. Just repetitive motions for guaranteed Rewards. Another point that occurs to me is people have been complaining that Allies which "don't belong there" have been in higher Ranks. Seems to me that tougher Nodes will curve that, no? Change means different strategies, and Tiers 1-5 mean you're going to have less options. Not just be able to deal with it with most of your Roster and average skills. Otherwise, what's the point of having more Rewards for the same degree of difficulty?

( Yes/no answer) have you played in a high-tiered match with that global node on yet?

That's not a rebuttal to the points I made. Not once did I say it was based on my own experience. That's just a way to bypass what someone is saying by calling out their experience.

Would you take tax advice from a kindergartener? Of course not! Wanna know why?
Experience is 100% relevant to a person's argument. 🤓

Experience is relevant when discussing based on experience. Anyone can have an understanding of knowledge and logic. That archaic ideal that only people who are of a certain Tier should be able to discuss topics is as old as my presence on here.