BWCV vs Dr Doom an unbiased argument
TP33
Member Posts: 1,680 ★★★★★
I found with all of the arguments going on with BWCV and Dr Doom there was a fair amount of personal bias involved, wether that comes from Dr Doom being a prominent comic villain or the ownership of either champion or other external factors it means that it is very difficult to reach a fair agreement. I did a couple of tests, I ranked both up to the same rank and level (4* 5/50, BWCV is duped but that doesn’t affect her damage output and I will take into account Dr Dooms awakened ability even though I do not have access to it) and have played them in many modes since then, all in the name of science (also I needed somebody to take out Hyperions in AW). I am NOT using suicide masteries during this test.
Dr Doom
Dr Doom is a champion best known for his very strong power controlling abilities along with his satisfying damage output.
When taken against ROL Captain Marvel;
Time: 5:30m
Hits: 230
Time per hit: 1.4s
Final health: 85%
Avg. damage per hit: 2377
Avg health per hit (how much damage taken and how much done): 46HP a hit
Dr Doom has a high block proficiency BUT if he does take damage he has almost no way on his base to regain it. As part of the test I took a full 5 hit combo (made sure it was MLLLM) to test sustainability on both champions. Dr dooms armour rating and crit resistance helped him but he still took 15% over the duration of the fight. Dr Doom does lots of damage a hit due to the fact that his heavy attack is weaves into almost every combo he hits. However both champions heavy attacks were dealing around 4.5k Crits. Dr Doom also gains a large fury from his L3 which I was using in his rotation. Despite this however BWCV dealt nearly twice the damage with her L3.
BWCV
BWCV is best known for her triple immunities and her ability to power gain a ton. She has one of the easiest to access and strongest nullifies in the game along with some good utility. She is not however known for her damage output
When taken against ROL Captain Marvel
Time: 8:56m
Hits: 389
Time per hit: 1.3s (her specials deal a lot of hits which inflate her hit count)
Final health: 100%, Full health bar!
Avg damage per hit: 1405.4
Avg. health per hit: 0HP a hit
BWCV is not built for damage, she can be used for damage in her incinerate phase however and she gains additional attack on the L3 for every Clairvoyant charge. Her combo meter was very high in this fight because her L2 does over 10 hits compared to the specials of Dr Doom which do about 5 hits each. Even after taking the full combo to the face BWCV was able to regenerate her health back. Unlike Dr Doom she does not have armour rating/crit resistance and was reduced to under 70% of her health. However her regenerative capabilities kept her at a full health bar for a lot of the fight.
Overall verdict
Dr Doom is good, very good in fact, he has a far higher average damage output than BWCV and yet is able to do almost as much as her utility wise. His power controlling ability is far more potent than BWCVs but the rotation is very easily disrupted when the opponent is loose with their L1/2 attacks. Also a shock immunity could ver easily reduce his damage output by a considerable amount. He does however have a high armour rating and block proficiency, meaning that is he was to be hit he would be able to tank lots of the damage.
BWCV is also very good, her triple immunities mean that she has lots of utility and she is not negatively effected by an opponents immunities, that is in fact where she dominates. Her nullify potential is also very good, it does however require Clarivoyant charges. Her damage output is definitely underneath that of Dr Doom but she pairs great with the suicide masteries, meaning that her damage output can be greatly increased without taking damage, even recoil can be cancelled out with regeneration from L2 attacks.
She is able to regenerate damage taken, so if you do take a lot of damage through the block you can easily recover from it. Paired with the recovery and willpower mmasteries and she has one of the best regeneration potentials in the game.
In conclusion I will have to say that BWCV is the better champion. Paired with suicides her damage output could be equal to or even surpass that of Dr Doom, and even without them she has far more utility in the form of 3 immunities, power steal, regen, damage and her death immunity.
Dr Doom
Dr Doom is a champion best known for his very strong power controlling abilities along with his satisfying damage output.
When taken against ROL Captain Marvel;
Time: 5:30m
Hits: 230
Time per hit: 1.4s
Final health: 85%
Avg. damage per hit: 2377
Avg health per hit (how much damage taken and how much done): 46HP a hit
Dr Doom has a high block proficiency BUT if he does take damage he has almost no way on his base to regain it. As part of the test I took a full 5 hit combo (made sure it was MLLLM) to test sustainability on both champions. Dr dooms armour rating and crit resistance helped him but he still took 15% over the duration of the fight. Dr Doom does lots of damage a hit due to the fact that his heavy attack is weaves into almost every combo he hits. However both champions heavy attacks were dealing around 4.5k Crits. Dr Doom also gains a large fury from his L3 which I was using in his rotation. Despite this however BWCV dealt nearly twice the damage with her L3.
BWCV
BWCV is best known for her triple immunities and her ability to power gain a ton. She has one of the easiest to access and strongest nullifies in the game along with some good utility. She is not however known for her damage output
When taken against ROL Captain Marvel
Time: 8:56m
Hits: 389
Time per hit: 1.3s (her specials deal a lot of hits which inflate her hit count)
Final health: 100%, Full health bar!
Avg damage per hit: 1405.4
Avg. health per hit: 0HP a hit
BWCV is not built for damage, she can be used for damage in her incinerate phase however and she gains additional attack on the L3 for every Clairvoyant charge. Her combo meter was very high in this fight because her L2 does over 10 hits compared to the specials of Dr Doom which do about 5 hits each. Even after taking the full combo to the face BWCV was able to regenerate her health back. Unlike Dr Doom she does not have armour rating/crit resistance and was reduced to under 70% of her health. However her regenerative capabilities kept her at a full health bar for a lot of the fight.
Overall verdict
Dr Doom is good, very good in fact, he has a far higher average damage output than BWCV and yet is able to do almost as much as her utility wise. His power controlling ability is far more potent than BWCVs but the rotation is very easily disrupted when the opponent is loose with their L1/2 attacks. Also a shock immunity could ver easily reduce his damage output by a considerable amount. He does however have a high armour rating and block proficiency, meaning that is he was to be hit he would be able to tank lots of the damage.
BWCV is also very good, her triple immunities mean that she has lots of utility and she is not negatively effected by an opponents immunities, that is in fact where she dominates. Her nullify potential is also very good, it does however require Clarivoyant charges. Her damage output is definitely underneath that of Dr Doom but she pairs great with the suicide masteries, meaning that her damage output can be greatly increased without taking damage, even recoil can be cancelled out with regeneration from L2 attacks.
She is able to regenerate damage taken, so if you do take a lot of damage through the block you can easily recover from it. Paired with the recovery and willpower mmasteries and she has one of the best regeneration potentials in the game.
In conclusion I will have to say that BWCV is the better champion. Paired with suicides her damage output could be equal to or even surpass that of Dr Doom, and even without them she has far more utility in the form of 3 immunities, power steal, regen, damage and her death immunity.
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Comments
Nice testing OP!
Two great champs with different yet awesome utilities. No need to determine if one is better than the other because different players can have different opinions and yet both be right based on situations.
I ask this genuinely, not sarcastically, as I don't have Doom to understand. I do have BWCV at 5/65, and I would actually say her ability to shine isn't dependent on the class she's fighting, but rather the immunities of the champ she's fighting. If a champ is immune to any one of her curse degens, her power gain can, in my humble opinion, rival Hyperion, without the risk of it being nullified like Hyperion's power gain buff. Couple that with it building up her Claire Voyance charges, and she can get to a sp3 very quickly with an attack rating >10,000 during it.
Look forward to hearing from you.
If you run Suicides then Claire is the best mystic.
If you don't run Suicides Doom is the best Mystic.
I have both of them rank 5.When I have suicides off I use Doom,when I have suicides on I use Claire.Don't put too much pressure on your brain.
Yes he doesn't have those 3 immunities but he has 2 rare immunities - shock & armor shatter.
He doesn't directly nullify but those tight slaps put a long stagger.
While he controls power pretty much the opponent can't even move.
He doesn't gave regen but has high block proficiency, great armor, unique ability to shrugg of final hit of heavy or special attack. Takes very very less damage even if u mess up.
Another debuff he has access to - incinerate & that too a very strong one. Special attacks are unblockable. So unless there is mordo or sinister, u can control power from anywhere of the screen when things get out of order.
Also has access to power gain alongsidr power drain.
Sp2 & sp3 hits very hard. One of the best in game special damage
If u compare all these to bwcv
Bwcv has triple immunity but not like icebro. She is kinda squishy. But that she overcomes with her regen.
Bwcv is like u have to sacrifice some ability to get the other one, whereas for doom it's all present throughout the fight.
I have both at 5* R5 Sig 200 and I use BWCV when I want to have fun and security, Doom when I just want to slaughter certain things. I find Dooms pattern to be kind of full and void of fun, and it's a game after all so why not inject some fun in there?
I won’t say that Doom is objectively better than Claire in all aspects - because that’s blatantly untrue. They have vastly different kits, and each can be the better option over the other in different scenarios.
But Doom’s true value lies in his unprecedented versatility, and the way he can make difficult matchups very straightforward.
For example:
- Mordo becomes a complete non-issue. You can bait heavies all day due to his high BP and armour, his passive stun isn’t astral evaded, and you can both nullify AND steal Mordo’s power gain to fuel your own specials whilst depriving him of his.
- Most champs on Aegis Heavy, including Mordo and Tenacity champs, all also become very simple to deal with using Doom’s combo-into-heavy mechanic.
- Vision Arkus on Close Encounters. Armour break immunity = no proximity Coldsnap. Easy staggers = no power gain buffs for Vision, stolen power gain buffs for you.
- EMP Modification, everyone’s favourite node that punishes you for playing well. Non-issue, due to Doom’s immunity to all active and passive shock effects.
- Evade champs. Sounds odd, I know - but the Pacify mastery interacts with Doom’s passive stun, which can let you avoid a lot of unnecessary evading if you play carefully and only land hits into stun.
- Maw. Easy to keep him Unfocused with Doom’s combo-into-heavy.
- Annihilus. Armour break immunity, easy to nullify his Cosmic rod and keep it at bay with staggers. Normal fight.
- Act 6 fights that require you to throw periodic heavies (i.e., Icarus, Do Not Go Gentle), but punish parries with high attack values and additional nodes. Again, a non-problem with Doom - intercept combo-into-heavy, and it’s a normal fight.
- Any fight with absurd power gain. Don’t really need to go into detail here.
- Any fight that requires armour break, along the lines of stacked KM’s with massive reverb damage. Throw in Mr Fantastic (who in his own right is a good champ with surprisingly useful pre- and cross-fight abilities), and you get an armour break on every single heavy, plus an attack bonus for all of your champions.
Sure, Claire can regen, she can nullify, she can prevent buffs, she has immunities. But the only thing she really has over Doom is her regen, which in itself isn’t much of an advantage if you consider just how far reaching Doom’s kit is.
Don’t get me wrong - she’s a top champ with an amazing set of abilities, and she can definitely handle a lot of tricky endgame fights. But she doesn’t quite make them as simple and straightforward as Doom does.
They both do things amazingly well and can fill different needs on a roster. There is no definitive better champ between the two, different players will have different styles and either champ will get you quite far. Having both is just a luxury 😊
And I’d actually argue that in the current late-game meta, shock immunity has proved far more useful to me than bleed/poison. Bleed/poison were definitely the dominant immunities to have for Act 5 and onwards up til 6.2, not so much for 6.3 and 6.4.
I still maintain that Doom is the more valuable champ between the two. Like I said, they are both excellent, and one will outperform the other across different matchups. But the specifics of Doom’s kit is better at making difficult fights easier - his combo-into-heavy mechanic alone has huge applications, as I’ve previously outlined. I love having both at R2/R5, but as I wrap up my exploration of Act 6, I’ve found myself reaching for Doom far more often.
I’m not saying that Doom is better than Claire because he can take every single matchup in the game. He can’t. I’m saying that as a champion, he holds more value in the current late-game meta due to his capacity to turn traditionally tricky matchups into very simple ones.