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The Road to Cavalier Difficulty

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Comments

  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,296 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    The only reason ice Phoenix was even slightly annoying is that mephisto who was brand new was the only coldsnap immune champ in the game

    There was more than one way to beat Ice Phoenix. Rogue, for example, was another Ice Phoenix counter even though she isn't immune to cold snap. 70% duration reduction is still plenty enough. But not everyone had those counters or had them ranked up, and my recollection was that she was also heal blocked so even a cold snap immune champ wasn't always enough for a player that couldn't evade Iceman's SP1 consistently for a long enough period of time.

    *I* wouldn't have a problem with Ice Phoenix today, but then again I didn't have a problem with the Boss Rush Symbiote Supreme after some thought and practice either. I am curious to know how many Cavalier players could walk through Ice Phoenix at a higher challenge rating today.

    I suppose if that number is too high, there's always unblockable Guillotine.
    I liked that fight at the time lol.
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 7,296 ★★★★★

    Cavalier difficulty should be aimed right at the average Cavalier roster. Fresh Cavalier players should see it as difficult to explore but only a challenge to complete. Average Cavalier players should find it easy to complete but a moderate challenge to explore. Advanced Cavalier players should find it easy to complete and only a small challenge to explore. Don't gear it towards the upper end of Cavalier or only they will even really try it.

    That's ridiculous really. That way with as long as it takes for EQ difficulty to be adjusted we'll be in the same place as we are now with a ton of players bored out of their minds not even reading nodes
    Harder makes it Act 6. No one wants more act 6.
    Not necessarily. It depends on how they make it harder.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,364 ★★★★★
    The cavalier difficulty should come out exactly as uncollected did. I became uncollected about 2 months after the eq was released. The first month I struggled to complete. For a couple of months, I planned and completed but exploration was still difficult. The first month I explored was the Thanos boss. This was mainly due to the fact that I stopped doing story and was doing only eq. Once I got used to the act 5 nodes, it was basically easy to complete and only a little difficult to explore. But, my roster progressed and I could eventually cruise through uncollected. I became cavalier and explored act 5 which was a breeze. Now, if cavalier difficulty comes out and if they build it for end game players, it will not help players progress, it will just make players like me frustrated. Kabam cannot build content for players who complete everything that comes out on the first day. I think the difficulty should match 6.2 first and then ramp up as time goes on.
  • FenicoFenico Posts: 207 ★★★
    edited June 2020

    Qfury said:

    Cavalier difficulty should be aimed right at the average Cavalier roster. Fresh Cavalier players should see it as difficult to explore but only a challenge to complete. Average Cavalier players should find it easy to complete but a moderate challenge to explore. Advanced Cavalier players should find it easy to complete and only a small challenge to explore. Don't gear it towards the upper end of Cavalier or only they will even really try it.

    That would be quite a let down.
    I really do think this one is going to a hard one for kabam to nail.
    of course.challenging end game players is not an easy task in itself.
    but challenging endgame players yet engaging mid player in the same content is not something that is likely possible.

    obviously the first step would be an un-noded path aimed at new cav players.
    and then noded paths obviously being harder.
    but i think they need to approach it slightly differently to normal.
    ATM you rewards really come from completion or exploration.
    i think they need to change the formula here and split the 100% rewards across the the noded paths.
    with each path having a different difficulty.
    so that and end gamer can 100% for max rewards
    whilst a freshly cav player can complete for lower rewards
    and someone somewhere in between can do 2,3,4,5 paths or whatever based on them and get rewarded appropriately.
    cus now the way it stands if you cant do 100% you have no reason to do more than one path.
    but if rewards are given on a path by path system you are encouraging everyone to bite off as much as they can chew whilst being able to better tailor the difficulty to everyone.
    everyone can do the amount of paths that fits their current level.

    as under the completion and exploration system we currently have the middle (which is the majority) get stuck in a hard and unengaging place when completion is easy, 100% is too difficult and its not worth going for 50%.
    This is actually a great idea.

    Something similar to 6.4 where you got something for each path you completed. In 6.4 it was half t2a, in Cavalier difficulty they can be creative and give on the end of each path something.

    Sig stones could be good example since everybody needs them and each one we can get is useful in this state of game.

    Revives would be even better since mid tier players would be more motivated to push trough since they would see that at the end, part of their investment would be given back to them. Endgame players on the other hand wouldn't have so big of a use of this most of the time if they completed all content in game, but they get the 100% rewards anyways so everyone should be happy.

    They can even change it a little bit from month to month so we can be excited every month what will it be this time
  • SandeepSSandeepS Posts: 341 ★★
    We dont have a use for our 4 star and below once we move into act 6. So suggestion is as follows:
    Make cavalier difficulty the same as uncollected, just change the entry requirements to 4 star and below. That will give us a reason to use our full roster. The super skilled like KT1 would probably try and do uncollected with 3 stars. It doesn't require much tweaking by introducing new nodes etc but does increase difficulty.
  • Sensei_MaatSensei_Maat Posts: 396 ★★★
    Fenico said:

    Qfury said:

    Cavalier difficulty should be aimed right at the average Cavalier roster. Fresh Cavalier players should see it as difficult to explore but only a challenge to complete. Average Cavalier players should find it easy to complete but a moderate challenge to explore. Advanced Cavalier players should find it easy to complete and only a small challenge to explore. Don't gear it towards the upper end of Cavalier or only they will even really try it.

    That would be quite a let down.
    I really do think this one is going to a hard one for kabam to nail.
    of course.challenging end game players is not an easy task in itself.
    but challenging endgame players yet engaging mid player in the same content is not something that is likely possible.

    obviously the first step would be an un-noded path aimed at new cav players.
    and then noded paths obviously being harder.
    but i think they need to approach it slightly differently to normal.
    ATM you rewards really come from completion or exploration.
    i think they need to change the formula here and split the 100% rewards across the the noded paths.
    with each path having a different difficulty.
    so that and end gamer can 100% for max rewards
    whilst a freshly cav player can complete for lower rewards
    and someone somewhere in between can do 2,3,4,5 paths or whatever based on them and get rewarded appropriately.
    cus now the way it stands if you cant do 100% you have no reason to do more than one path.
    but if rewards are given on a path by path system you are encouraging everyone to bite off as much as they can chew whilst being able to better tailor the difficulty to everyone.
    everyone can do the amount of paths that fits their current level.

    as under the completion and exploration system we currently have the middle (which is the majority) get stuck in a hard and unengaging place when completion is easy, 100% is too difficult and its not worth going for 50%.
    This is actually a great idea.

    Something similar to 6.4 where you got something for each path you completed. In 6.4 it was half t2a, in Cavalier difficulty they can be creative and give on the end of each path something.

    Sig stones could be good example since everybody needs them and each one we can get is useful in this state of game.

    Revives would be even better since mid tier players would be more motivated to push trough since they would see that at the end, part of their investment would be given back to them. Endgame players on the other hand wouldn't have so big of a use of this most of the time if they completed all content in game, but they get the 100% rewards anyways so everyone should be happy.

    They can even change it a little bit from month to month so we can be excited every month what will it be this time
    i think it would be a good idea. it would help people stay engaged with the content, it would help ease the frustration people have when they cannot 100% and it will, it will give people an incentive to push even if its just for that one extra path.
    but importantly it will allow kabam to make one path easy, one path very very hard and everything in between. and players will feel that they can get rewarded appropriately for their skill.
    and it would also make it easier to tailor the difficulty as time goes on IMO.
  • OdachiOdachi Posts: 773 ★★★★
    I think one thing is certain, the same people on the complain-train about modok will be hitting these forums even harder because it's not going to be a walk in the park.

    Personally, I'd like to see the introduction not be an extra difficulty bringing it to 6 different versions of the same EQ. Maybe just bring it down to 4, Beginner, normal, master, epic. With UC taking the place of master and epic being the new one, units would be nice too.

    Or failing that, something like the symbiote difficulty where there arent as many paths with maybe buffs you can pick up in the easier versions to keep some of the crying at bay.
  • Sensei_MaatSensei_Maat Posts: 396 ★★★
    Odachi said:

    I think one thing is certain, the same people on the complain-train about modok will be hitting these forums even harder because it's not going to be a walk in the park.

    Personally, I'd like to see the introduction not be an extra difficulty bringing it to 6 different versions of the same EQ. Maybe just bring it down to 4, Beginner, normal, master, epic. With UC taking the place of master and epic being the new one, units would be nice too.

    Or failing that, something like the symbiote difficulty where there arent as many paths with maybe buffs you can pick up in the easier versions to keep some of the crying at bay.

    i dont get the complaining about modoks.
    i am only an average player.
    and it has been no problem for me.
    just takes thought and preparation.
    i have taken tech path. with medusa and corvus.. medusa shuts down robots, corvus eats the others. take the right team and the right path and it is no problem.
    take the cosmic path with champs like doom, sym sup and magik,

    it just makes me think that people who are not ready for it expect to do it. i dunno.
  • QfuryQfury Posts: 1,807 ★★★★★
    Just a thing I've thought of and think it's rather important.. So as we know the new difficulty is going to be a side quest which is great but side quests are usually locked access ie you need a key or some form of token to enter which stops us scouting the path. I think it would be great if it was just open so we can scout paths and bring in xyz champ that may be needed.

    Just food for thought.
  • AmbjonyAmbjony Posts: 136
    edited June 2020
    I think a new cavalier difficulty side quest it’s finally a good idea but I see some flaws. There is a wide range of cavalier players, those new cavaliers or stuck at the champion for months, like myself, and those who have completed everything .

    It will be hard to narrow down the new side quest or EQ difficulty without letting down one of the two groups.

    So there are two options:

    -Create two new difficulties, one for cavaliers and one for truly endgame players. There are now 3 mini acts between UQ and Cavalier and the same between Cavalier and endgame players.

    -Narrow down cavalier difficulty to make it possible and challenging to a new cavalier to complete it but to endgame players the exploration.

    If I were to choose, I’ll take the first option because It’s better suited long term but it seems pretty obvious that Kabam is taking the second option. I just hope they nailed the difficulty to please both groups but I see it pretty difficult
  • HeattblasttHeattblastt Posts: 183 ★★
    DNA3000 said:

    Cavalier difficulty is not for "the game" because the game doesn't progress at all. Players progress. The game might contain content beyond 6.1, but Cavalier difficulty is targeted at the players who have made it past 6.1. When 6.1 first came out Cavalier difficulty would be nonsensical because almost no one was actually Cavalier. Cavalier difficulty makes sense not when the Cavalier title appears, but when enough players make it past that progress point to make the difficulty meaningful for enough players to be worth spending developer resources on.

    To put it more bluntly, the first person to complete Book 2 doesn't deserve a difficulty tier just for him or her that they can play until everyone else catches up. The first person to complete Book 2 gets to wait until enough people catch up that it makes sense to make content for all of them, at least when it comes to progressional content. Enough players are Cavalier now that it does make sense. Some of them are way past Cavalier, but the difficulty tier is not and should not exclusively target that small subset of them.

    @DNA3000 , so u mean that cavalier title should be targeted for 6.1. I don't think that should be the case. You are saying kabam introduce new quest when enough people has reached got that title. But u should not forget that uncollected version was introduced after 6 months since that title was made available. And assuming that cavalier difficulty will be introduced after 3 months than the time between cavalier title being made available and starting of cavalier difficulty will be 18 months. This means much more percentage of players will be cavalier when that difficulty will be dropped vs percentage of people who were uncollected when uncollected difficulty was introduced.
    And moreover the newly uncollected players couldn't 100% explore uncollected difficulty and so it was more of targeted towards for players who have completed 5.4.
    So by the above logic, I get to following 2 points:
    1) Cavalier difficulty should be targeted for those players who have completed the story quest introduced 6 months before cavalier difficulty starts. In this case it was 6.4(introduced in april2020).
    2) Like uncollected , cavalier difficulty can only be explored by someone who has completed 6.4.
  • AlexBossuAlexBossu Posts: 135
    Cool. Thats why we receive Greater Shard Crystals 😁
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 13,305 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    Cavalier difficulty is not for "the game" because the game doesn't progress at all. Players progress. The game might contain content beyond 6.1, but Cavalier difficulty is targeted at the players who have made it past 6.1. When 6.1 first came out Cavalier difficulty would be nonsensical because almost no one was actually Cavalier. Cavalier difficulty makes sense not when the Cavalier title appears, but when enough players make it past that progress point to make the difficulty meaningful for enough players to be worth spending developer resources on.

    To put it more bluntly, the first person to complete Book 2 doesn't deserve a difficulty tier just for him or her that they can play until everyone else catches up. The first person to complete Book 2 gets to wait until enough people catch up that it makes sense to make content for all of them, at least when it comes to progressional content. Enough players are Cavalier now that it does make sense. Some of them are way past Cavalier, but the difficulty tier is not and should not exclusively target that small subset of them.

    @DNA3000 , so u mean that cavalier title should be targeted for 6.1. I don't think that should be the case. You are saying kabam introduce new quest when enough people has reached got that title. But u should not forget that uncollected version was introduced after 6 months since that title was made available. And assuming that cavalier difficulty will be introduced after 3 months than the time between cavalier title being made available and starting of cavalier difficulty will be 18 months. This means much more percentage of players will be cavalier when that difficulty will be dropped vs percentage of people who were uncollected when uncollected difficulty was introduced.
    First of all it doesn't mean that at all. By that logic, six months after 6.4 was released you expect as many people to have completed Act 6 as were Uncollected six months after 5.2 was released. But that doesn't factor in the relative difficulty of the content. Time doesn't matter at all. Second, the post above doesn't say what Cavalier EQ difficulty should be targeted at, it says when Cavalier difficulty makes sense to add to the game at all.

    EQ maps do not have homogeneous difficulty. So there's no such thing as "targeting" Cavalier difficulty at any particular player. Every difficulty tier "targets" a range of players. Even Cavalier difficulty will eventually target a range of players.

    And moreover the newly uncollected players couldn't 100% explore uncollected difficulty and so it was more of targeted towards for players who have completed 5.4.
    So by the above logic, I get to following 2 points:
    1) Cavalier difficulty should be targeted for those players who have completed the story quest introduced 6 months before cavalier difficulty starts. In this case it was 6.4(introduced in april2020).
    2) Like uncollected , cavalier difficulty can only be explored by someone who has completed 6.4.

    By this time-based logic if Cavalier difficulty was delayed to come out after Book 2 then it would be tuned to Book 2 difficulty, as that would be what was released six months prior, and there would be no EQ difficulty targeting any player between Uncollected and Book 2. That's not logical. The bottom of Cavalier difficulty should be more or less somewhere around where 6.1 is simply because that's the prerequisite for Cavalier EQ. It doesn't make sense for the difficulty of Cavalier difficulty to be *wildly* higher than the prerequisite. It could be very challenging for such players, but it can't be tuned to be out of reach of those players.

    How high Cavalier difficulty *should* go depends a great deal on how high you think Act 6 itself should have gone in the first place. If the devs are rethinking difficulty for Book 2, it would make no sense for Cavalier difficulty exploration to be massively harder than Book 2, because that would then mean the content players were grinding to progress in the game in general to tackle the next Story arc was itself a roadblock to progressing to that part of the game.
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 6,430 ★★★★★
    Knation said:

    SandeepS said:

    We dont have a use for our 4 star and below once we move into act 6. So suggestion is as follows:
    Make cavalier difficulty the same as uncollected, just change the entry requirements to 4 star and below. That will give us a reason to use our full roster. The super skilled like KT1 would probably try and do uncollected with 3 stars. It doesn't require much tweaking by introducing new nodes etc but does increase difficulty.

    Why is this everyone’s suggestion for pretty much everything I actually despise this idea in most cases
    When I go to harder difficulties I want to use my top champs which I’ve spent so much time and effort building
    I have absolutely zero desire to go backwards and have to start doing stuff like ranking and using low rarity versions of champs I've already invested in at higher rarities
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