**Mastery Loadouts**
Due to issues related to the release of Mastery Loadouts, the "free swap" period will be extended.
The new end date will be May 1st.

Where are Asians in Game?

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Comments

  • Shamir51Shamir51 Posts: 849 ★★★★
    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.

    Your answer is incredibly interesting.

    Dealing first with toy companies making dolls- if I go back to when i was a kid, pretty much 99% of toys depicting humans in some form could be classed as white. This never seemed to be an issue for non whites in regards to the enjoyment they got from them. I don’t claim to speak for everyone but I was quite happy with my He-Man despite the fact he was white and the same could be said for my friends in school who were of various colours and creeds. The second point about dolls in particular is that they’re designed for an age group that can’t grasp the concept of “identifying with”. Kids just wanna play. I know this as I have 2 8 year olds.

    The 2nd part of your answer was fascinating as it got me thinking. I loved Black Panther as a movie. The biggest reason why was Killmonger and that because I really related to the character and his motivations. I don’t need to provide details why I could relate, but I could. Equally, I really loved Captain America: Winter Soldier. But there were no characters that I could relate to there.

    I respect everyone right to have their own opinion, but my own is that in fictional medium, representation is irrelevant.
    I get that people also relate to characters through non-racial aspects, but for me, as a child, I grew up wondering why the toy stores didn't have any action figures who looked like me. Of course, I still loved my Power Rangers (Green because I related to his personality traits), but I would also relate to an Asian-American action figure if there was one.
    I find it hard to disagree with you here. It’s no longer a general observation, but one focussed just on you and your childhood. I wonder then, how much of identifying with race at a young age has to do with the atmosphere you are in growing up. Personally, I never experienced racism at a young age despite being an ethnic minority in the UK, I grew up in an area that was predominantly white but went to a school that was predominantly Asian.

    I clearly grew up as a child much more devolved than you did mate- my thoughts at toy stores were never more than “I hope they have megatron in stock” or similar. These kinds of things came to me me a little later in life.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
    No, I simply stated that I don't relate to being of Caucasian ethnicity. Do you relate to an ethnicity that isn't yours? Do you relate to a culture that is wildly different from your own?

    Saying that I don't relate to someone's race isn't showing a bias.

    And you're the one who's discriminating against other ethnicities by not recognizing the differences between ethnicities. If you don't recognize that people have different races, you're basically invalidating them, and their race. By saying that a white character should be good enough for an Asian player since "you don't see color", you're invalidating the Asian race.
    Who was the one who said he would rather not play as a white male? Come off it.

    This is a game based on Marvel Characters, sorry if you’re blind to their back stories and history but instead look at something so basic as color, facial features and genitals. It’s pretty small minded and ignores the inclusive diversity already present.
    I said I would rather not play as a white, straight, male because maybe I don't identify with him. You're correct in that.

    That being said, race, gender, sexuality, etc. are all so basic and recognizable. When you meet a new person, you don't notice their personality first. You notice their race or gender. While I'm "ignoring the inclusive diversity already present", ie. their backstories/personalities, you're ignoring their basic features. You're ignoring that someone is black, and therefore, you're ignoring what their ancestors have gone through and how society views them. You're essentially adding to the problem, sweetie.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.

    Your answer is incredibly interesting.

    Dealing first with toy companies making dolls- if I go back to when i was a kid, pretty much 99% of toys depicting humans in some form could be classed as white. This never seemed to be an issue for non whites in regards to the enjoyment they got from them. I don’t claim to speak for everyone but I was quite happy with my He-Man despite the fact he was white and the same could be said for my friends in school who were of various colours and creeds. The second point about dolls in particular is that they’re designed for an age group that can’t grasp the concept of “identifying with”. Kids just wanna play. I know this as I have 2 8 year olds.

    The 2nd part of your answer was fascinating as it got me thinking. I loved Black Panther as a movie. The biggest reason why was Killmonger and that because I really related to the character and his motivations. I don’t need to provide details why I could relate, but I could. Equally, I really loved Captain America: Winter Soldier. But there were no characters that I could relate to there.

    I respect everyone right to have their own opinion, but my own is that in fictional medium, representation is irrelevant.
    I get that people also relate to characters through non-racial aspects, but for me, as a child, I grew up wondering why the toy stores didn't have any action figures who looked like me. Of course, I still loved my Power Rangers (Green because I related to his personality traits), but I would also relate to an Asian-American action figure if there was one.
    I find it hard to disagree with you here. It’s no longer a general observation, but one focussed just on you and your childhood. I wonder then, how much of identifying with race at a young age has to do with the atmosphere you are in growing up. Personally, I never experienced racism at a young age despite being an ethnic minority in the UK, I grew up in an area that was predominantly white but went to a school that was predominantly Asian.

    I clearly grew up as a child much more devolved than you did mate- my thoughts at toy stores were never more than “I hope they have megatron in stock” or similar. These kinds of things came to me me a little later in life.
    I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood in an extremely segregated part of the United States. I was one of the only POC students at my school. You could say that that had a large influence on my views of race.
  • Samuel030sSamuel030s Posts: 125 ★
    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
    No, I simply stated that I don't relate to being of Caucasian ethnicity. Do you relate to an ethnicity that isn't yours? Do you relate to a culture that is wildly different from your own?

    Saying that I don't relate to someone's race isn't showing a bias.

    And you're the one who's discriminating against other ethnicities by not recognizing the differences between ethnicities. If you don't recognize that people have different races, you're basically invalidating them, and their race. By saying that a white character should be good enough for an Asian player since "you don't see color", you're invalidating the Asian race.
    Who was the one who said he would rather not play as a white male? Come off it.

    This is a game based on Marvel Characters, sorry if you’re blind to their back stories and history but instead look at something so basic as color, facial features and genitals. It’s pretty small minded and ignores the inclusive diversity already present.
    I would say that a while "who" a character is is more important than "what" they are (LGBT, POC, etc.), it is a nice bonus if a well-written character happens to come from a diverse background.
    I would hope that the reason Spider-Man is (probably) the most popular superhero in the world isn't because he is a straight, white male, but because he is a relatable character who struggles with issues that a lot of people can relate to.
    As for the "genitals" comment, I'd say Kabam has been pretty alright at adding female characters to the game who are powerful and fun to play, who also happen to be women.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    Race also has a lot to do with your culture. By saying that "I want this race to be represented", I'm also saying that I want a culture represented as well. Our cultures shape our personalities, and who we are as human beings. Two people who are brought up under completely different cultures would most likely not be similar in personality. Personality is a huge part of a character, but it's also influenced by our cultures and ethnicities.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Posts: 849 ★★★★
    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    Shamir51 said:

    As someone from an ethnic minority, I can honestly say, the first time I even thought about this was now. This constant need for representation in every facet of society is part of the issue. This is a game. Not a reflection of the world at large.

    But what if I don't want to play as a straight, white, male? What if I don't identify with any of those three things? What option do I have?
    Firstly, play a game which allows you to play as what you would like? I’m sure there are hundreds out there...

    Secondly, are you honestly saying that an individual’s ability to play a game is based on whether they identify with the race, gender or sexuality of a character???
    No, it's just my enjoyment of the game would be higher if I could relate to a character. That's why toy companies make dolls representing POC. You could just argue that it's only a doll and doesn't represent the "world at large". But, people want to be able to relate to something. That's why if you can relate to a character in a book or a movie, you tend to like them more.

    Your answer is incredibly interesting.

    Dealing first with toy companies making dolls- if I go back to when i was a kid, pretty much 99% of toys depicting humans in some form could be classed as white. This never seemed to be an issue for non whites in regards to the enjoyment they got from them. I don’t claim to speak for everyone but I was quite happy with my He-Man despite the fact he was white and the same could be said for my friends in school who were of various colours and creeds. The second point about dolls in particular is that they’re designed for an age group that can’t grasp the concept of “identifying with”. Kids just wanna play. I know this as I have 2 8 year olds.

    The 2nd part of your answer was fascinating as it got me thinking. I loved Black Panther as a movie. The biggest reason why was Killmonger and that because I really related to the character and his motivations. I don’t need to provide details why I could relate, but I could. Equally, I really loved Captain America: Winter Soldier. But there were no characters that I could relate to there.

    I respect everyone right to have their own opinion, but my own is that in fictional medium, representation is irrelevant.
    I get that people also relate to characters through non-racial aspects, but for me, as a child, I grew up wondering why the toy stores didn't have any action figures who looked like me. Of course, I still loved my Power Rangers (Green because I related to his personality traits), but I would also relate to an Asian-American action figure if there was one.
    I find it hard to disagree with you here. It’s no longer a general observation, but one focussed just on you and your childhood. I wonder then, how much of identifying with race at a young age has to do with the atmosphere you are in growing up. Personally, I never experienced racism at a young age despite being an ethnic minority in the UK, I grew up in an area that was predominantly white but went to a school that was predominantly Asian.

    I clearly grew up as a child much more devolved than you did mate- my thoughts at toy stores were never more than “I hope they have megatron in stock” or similar. These kinds of things came to me me a little later in life.
    I grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood in an extremely segregated part of the United States. I was one of the only POC students at my school. You could say that that had a large influence on my views of race.
    I can honestly say, now I understand where you’re coming from. And I fully respect your view on this.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,965 ★★★★★
    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
    No, I simply stated that I don't relate to being of Caucasian ethnicity. Do you relate to an ethnicity that isn't yours? Do you relate to a culture that is wildly different from your own?

    Saying that I don't relate to someone's race isn't showing a bias.

    And you're the one who's discriminating against other ethnicities by not recognizing the differences between ethnicities. If you don't recognize that people have different races, you're basically invalidating them, and their race. By saying that a white character should be good enough for an Asian player since "you don't see color", you're invalidating the Asian race.
    Who was the one who said he would rather not play as a white male? Come off it.

    This is a game based on Marvel Characters, sorry if you’re blind to their back stories and history but instead look at something so basic as color, facial features and genitals. It’s pretty small minded and ignores the inclusive diversity already present.
    I said I would rather not play as a white, straight, male because maybe I don't identify with him. You're correct in that.

    That being said, race, gender, sexuality, etc. are all so basic and recognizable. When you meet a new person, you don't notice their personality first. You notice their race or gender. While I'm "ignoring the inclusive diversity already present", ie. their backstories/personalities, you're ignoring their basic features. You're ignoring that someone is black, and therefore, you're ignoring what their ancestors have gone through and how society views them. You're essentially adding to the problem, sweetie.
    No you see race, gender and sexuality I do not, that’s not to say I don’t respect it I just don’t define interactions or people by such traits as they are superficial and says nothing about them as a person.

    We’ll eternally disagree here because I also see your view point as the problem, insert infantilizing pejorative.
  • Samuel030sSamuel030s Posts: 125 ★
    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    CoatHang3r said:

    Notsavage19 said:

    RookieXX said:

    There are so many things to identify with other than race. There is character history / background, personality, superpower, relationships, costume / representation & character class.

    You chose to focus on something very specific, which not a lot of people feel is relevant to the game. We're here because we're escaping. But you're opening a portal back to the things others are running away from.

    Maybe you should look at it from their perspective instead of pushing back.

    Religion. Sexuality. Mental Health. Disabilities. We want to relate to those too.
    You want to relate to those. Others don’t see the world as so binary and divided.
    Other people "don't see race"? Other people "don't feel sexuality"?

    Divided? How? How is wanting to be able to relate to a character "dividing"?
    Yeah non prejudiced people don’t see those as factors.
    That is a flawed mindset. It does nothing but ignores discrimination.

    https://theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jan/26/do-not-see-race-ignoring-racism-not-helping
    You’re the one literally showcasing your own biases by saying you need to play characters with specific ethnic and race qualities.
    No, I simply stated that I don't relate to being of Caucasian ethnicity. Do you relate to an ethnicity that isn't yours? Do you relate to a culture that is wildly different from your own?

    Saying that I don't relate to someone's race isn't showing a bias.

    And you're the one who's discriminating against other ethnicities by not recognizing the differences between ethnicities. If you don't recognize that people have different races, you're basically invalidating them, and their race. By saying that a white character should be good enough for an Asian player since "you don't see color", you're invalidating the Asian race.
    Who was the one who said he would rather not play as a white male? Come off it.

    This is a game based on Marvel Characters, sorry if you’re blind to their back stories and history but instead look at something so basic as color, facial features and genitals. It’s pretty small minded and ignores the inclusive diversity already present.
    I said I would rather not play as a white, straight, male because maybe I don't identify with him. You're correct in that.

    That being said, race, gender, sexuality, etc. are all so basic and recognizable. When you meet a new person, you don't notice their personality first. You notice their race or gender. While I'm "ignoring the inclusive diversity already present", ie. their backstories/personalities, you're ignoring their basic features. You're ignoring that someone is black, and therefore, you're ignoring what their ancestors have gone through and how society views them. You're essentially adding to the problem, sweetie.
    While it is true that the first things you notice are likely those attributes, who they are as a person matters more than any of those things. You get to know the quality of someone's character over time, so it isn't exactly a fair comparison.
    Furthermore, you can acknowledge someone is black, not ignoring their heritage, and still be able to judge them beyond their basic features.
  • Kabam VydiousKabam Vydious Posts: 3,598
    We greatly appreciate the feedback presented here by everyone. However, we will be closing it due to the nature of some of the comments being taken. This was brought up as a means of feedback/concern, not to create an inflammatory discussion. We'll be taking what was said to the rest of the team, but ask that everyone continue to be kind and courteous to one another when discussing topics.
This discussion has been closed.