How balanced should champs be? (If every champ is god-tier then, no one would be)

GMAX77GMAX77 Member Posts: 512 ★★★
Just wanted to spark some conversation. Remember Incredibles...the main villain wanted to make everyone super powered because if everyone had super powers, then everyone would be "equal". I wonder how this fits into champ design. I remember when I pulled Thor Rag from my 6 star crystal. It was certainly a disappointment because at the time Black Bold was my best 6 star champ out of the 5 I had (though I was able to pull a Killmonger at a different time). Point is, as bad as it feels to pull a "trash" champ, it's also great to pull champs like Namor, Ghost, Human Torch, Blade, and Starky and others. I don't think any champ should be so ineffective that they are only useful for arena fodder, but I think if every champ was tip-top tier then the excitement of chasing champs would be diminished some. What do you guys think?
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Comments

  • Thicco_ModeThicco_Mode Member Posts: 8,852 ★★★★★
    I think there definitely can be stand out champs that are amazing like quake and ghost, but almost all champs should be usable, whether it be because of damage or useful, relevant utility. Another big reason why some champs are just terrible is because of the design process of some quests that are uber-specific.
  • Pancake_FacePancake_Face Member Posts: 1,390 ★★★★
    The way I see it is that every champ needs to be useful. The problem with this game right now is that there are only aa few champs that can do end game things. We have around 180 champs and only 10-15 are used. There needs to be diversity. They need to figure a way out to put node counters to these 10-15 champs but the node makes a meh champ amazing to use.
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  • 007md92007md92 Member Posts: 1,381 ★★★★
    edited June 2020
    Stop with this god tier and tier tier stuff. Bro. This game is also about collect all champions. And play enjoy.
    Ofcourse every champion should be useful. 1st of all. Every champion should hold on their own or do some damage against act 5 opponents. That's the base priority.
    So the concept of game getting stalemate, doesn't exist.

    Versatile roster (no monotonous champion rank up thus expanding the AW diversity option)

    Everyone useful (doing good content clearing modarate damage) act 5 is the base. Every champion should get buffed depending on act 5. That way a new player pulling his 1st 5 star champ and getting a daredavil or Juggernaut doesn't make them feel helpless and less interested.

    No Bad pulls (no sad or angry forum post)
    Beside all of them are superhuman comic books characters. Why would they flop on the 1st place?

    That's all. Every champion Should have some use. Take Thanos for an example.
    How many people go crazy with Gifting event? They spend soo much. They get a thanos. But thanos is meme. Why?
    He is freaking THANOS.
    What's the point of something so rare if it doesn't have core value?
    I am happy what they did with weapon X wolverine. Very very well done. A rare fun champion - which u have to get by working your ass off. And that champion is useful too.

  • GMAX77GMAX77 Member Posts: 512 ★★★
    I am hoping that if they do start buffing older champs (or lesser used champs), attack power and a bit of utility would make all of the difference. Venom and Carnage are not the absolute best cosmic champs, but I look at how much better they are now vs where they once were. I still don't hear about Carnage being used in "end game" content, but he is still a much, much better champ.
  • FlashSpideyFlashSpidey Member Posts: 107
    I completely agree and it scares me. This is better for the game, imo, but imagine how its gonna feel when those characters you put so much into are suddenly... just another champion.
  • GMAX77GMAX77 Member Posts: 512 ★★★
    007md92 said:



    Everyone useful (doing good content clearing modarate damage) act 5 is the base. Every champion should get buffed depending on act 5.

    This is a good point. Considering how far the game has come, some champs should still be better than others, however every champ should be able to reasonably get one through content. I like the idea of Act 5 as a baseline. Certain champs would still make things like Abyss of Legends easier (Doom & Torch), or champs designed for things like labyrinth and realm (I'm looking at you Aegon), but every champ should be usable enough to complete basic story mode without great difficulty.
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  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Member Posts: 8,672 ★★★★★
    "The year was 2081, and everyone was finally equal." Bonus points if anyone gets the reference without googling it.
  • Jh_DezJh_Dez Member Posts: 1,307 ★★★
    Champs should have a varying form of utility and skill set that makes them applicable in unique and general scenarios
    We already see that with immunities, damage types and buff/debuff effects.
    What we need is an average dps for all champs. They should able to deal decent attack damage regardless of their skills. And if they are not gonna hit hard enough, then they should have an ability that supplements for the lack of attack damage like bleed, shock etc

    One thing I like with champs like stark Spidey and wasp is that they have a really high dps but the trade-off is health stats and defense stats.

    Proper examples of well designed champs are magik, Morningstar, hood, Dr voodoo

    Magik isn't necessarily god tier like ghost. She doesn't have insane damage like that but she makes up for it with utility. This utility is sometimes much preferred than high damage output.
    Hood doesn't also have noteworthy damage but he also has other abilities that can control the fight, Buff control - regen and he can cause attacks to miss plus stun immunity afterwards.
    Yes some champs might offer a higher range of utility compared to another but it still shouldn't make them useless.
    A decent comparison is magik and psylocke. (Honestly the only thing that makes psylocke less noteworthy is her reduced power gain from attacking and being attacked. Without that feature, psylocke would definitely be much more common)
  • MauledMauled Member, Guardian Posts: 3,957 Guardian
    I don’t think that anybody expects all champion buffs to bring about a new wave of God tiers. I expect a fair few to become ‘god tier’, but the baseline is that they are usable in Act 6.

    When they were doing those tweaks around Namor/HT etc. They felt that Ronin required no work, by their own measurement he was perfectly balanced so that should be the sort of baseline that we’re looking at. Some will be a bit above, others a bit below. Different nodes and content in the future will render some champions more useful, that’s just the ebb and flow of games like this.
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Member Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    I champs should be so bad that they serve no purpose in game
  • GbabyfreshGbabyfresh Member Posts: 142
    Bro there's champs that are completely useless, simply make all useful is the best decision...
  • Pancake_FacePancake_Face Member Posts: 1,390 ★★★★

    "The year was 2081, and everyone was finally equal." Bonus points if anyone gets the reference without googling it.

    Harrison Bergeron
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Member Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★
    On another note, I feel like Kabam's just making essays out of their champion ability descriptions now. Most old characters might just need a simple, single change to their mechanics to make them somewhat viable.

    There are tons of examples here.
  • lowlevelplayerlowlevelplayer Member Posts: 4,292 ★★★★★
    not all champs should be useful. There should always be champs that no one wants, in order to make crystals more exciting. If every champ was useful in something or another, there would be a lot less excitement in crystals.
    There is also another argument as to why not every champ can be useful.
    Kabam is a for-profit company. They depend on sales of crystals(offers), and revies+potions(units). If every champ was useful, then they would sell less featured cavs. If bosses were fair, they would sell less revies(units).
    This is why I believe that not every champ should be good, or useful.
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Member Posts: 21,948 ★★★★★

    "The year was 2081, and everyone was finally equal." Bonus points if anyone gets the reference without googling it.

    that story leaves me with a bad feeling in my stomach.
  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Member Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    not all champs should be useful. There should always be champs that no one wants, in order to make crystals more exciting. If every champ was useful in something or another, there would be a lot less excitement in crystals.
    There is also another argument as to why not every champ can be useful.
    Kabam is a for-profit company. They depend on sales of crystals(offers), and revies+potions(units). If every champ was useful, then they would sell less featured cavs. If bosses were fair, they would sell less revies(units).
    This is why I believe that not every champ should be good, or useful.

    Well even if every champion was useful, the "usefulness" of champions would have differences, making it no different from the present "tier list". If all champions were updated to be better, there would still be great, good, decent, and bad options, so making every champ useful isn't a problem, since the tier list shifts to accommodate all the updated champions.
  • AleorAleor Member Posts: 3,100 ★★★★★
    There are a lot of different nodes and abilities, and champs can counter different subsets of those. Some can be very good in some specific match ups, like torch or sym supreme. Some more generally purposed, but less effective, than those harder oriented champs. Simple as that.
    Having lame champs doesn't help anyone
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Member Posts: 21,948 ★★★★★

    I completely agree and it scares me. This is better for the game, imo, but imagine how its gonna feel when those characters you put so much into are suddenly... just another champion.

    probably in the minority here, but I agree with you 150%. Take someone who can be useable if played right like say, Kamala, that everyone calls trash and she should be buffed.

    She doesn’t need to be buffed, but enough people will eventually call for her to be buffed Kabam will have no choice but to cave. I think if that happens I’m going to call it quits on the game.

    Champions are usable if people learn to actually use them and stop getting mad that it’s not a Ghost or a Corvus.
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  • Notsavage19Notsavage19 Member Posts: 2,817 ★★★★★

    I completely agree and it scares me. This is better for the game, imo, but imagine how its gonna feel when those characters you put so much into are suddenly... just another champion.

    probably in the minority here, but I agree with you 150%. Take someone who can be useable if played right like say, Kamala, that everyone calls trash and she should be buffed.

    She doesn’t need to be buffed, but enough people will eventually call for her to be buffed Kabam will have no choice but to cave. I think if that happens I’m going to call it quits on the game.

    Champions are usable if people learn to actually use them and stop getting mad that it’s not a Ghost or a Corvus.
    The only champions that really need buffs are characters like Iron Man and Fixit who really have nothing to bring to the table.
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  • Doctor_Strange19Doctor_Strange19 Member Posts: 255 ★★★
    I think what people need to keep in mind for when they talk about making champs useful is the difference between a buff and a rework. A rework changes big parts of a characters kit that was small at best before. An example of this is Spider-Gwen and She Hulk. A buff however mostly adds a little more to a kit that was already there. See Gamora. She already gained furies and cruelties and her special attacks were always garunteed crits, but her buff made it so she could stack those and bring her up to the level of other champions in game. So I think the 2 buffs a month are going to do just that. Imagine Punisher 2099, who already has a good base, but just with better numbers and a bit more utility. (I think the Magneto one has to be a rework though, there’s next to nothing to him) So I’m very excited about the changes Kabam is making and I hope these buffs will make some champions more usable.
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