Mephisto vs Venom: this interaction REALLY IS a bug!

MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 4,116 ★★★★★
edited July 2020 in Bugs and Known Issues
Mephisto doesn't shut down Venoms buffs the way he should.

Yes there are a lot of threads on this subject - I've read them - and a lot of people will convincingly hold forth that it's "working as intended", and not a bug.

They're all wrong. And listen/read on before you disagree - I have been right before when challenging people's beliefs in this forum.

So the Venom/Mephisto thing? It is a bug. And here's the proof:

The key facts, if you don't want to watch my very grainy YouTube video:
Mephisto's Soul Imprisonment works by reducing the chance for buffs to proc by 100%.
Some champs can bypass this with a greater than 100% chance to proc, or immunity to AAR (which is fine!). However: Venom isn't one of those champs!
Venom has no special resistance to AAR. He also has no specified chance for buffs to proc; suggesting the default of 100%.

At the start of the game, Venom procs buffs as he runs in. Allegedly, this is because he procs them before Soul Imprisonment kicks in.

However, I don't think that's the right explanation (and even if it were, I think it should be fixed! Mephisto ought to shut him down!): I think there's a problem with his Klyntar Mutation buff; and if it was fixed, those start-of-the-fight buffs might just disappear.

How do we prove this?:
Venom has a specific vulnerability to Incinerate. Incinerating him nullifies his Klyntar buff.
Mephisto can Incinerate him, thereby removing him Klyntar Mutation buff. He will simultaneously reactive Soul Imprisonment, which should stop Venom generating any new buffs
However, even whilst Soul Imprisonment is active, the Klyntar Mutation buff reappears at the exact time it was going to refresh anyway. It's a buff - that shouldn't happen! By comparison, in this video, when Venom triggers his SP2 whilst imprisoned, he consumes his old buffs in an attempt to turn them into Fury buffs and fails to do so because of the Soul Imprisonment.

There really is a bug with Venoms buffs - at least with the Klyntar buff which is his primary source of power - and it means he bypasses what should be a significant disadvantage when fighting Mephisto. Could the team please take a look at it? And preferably not by adding a line of text to Venoms description, or making his Klyntar buff into a Passive (😉).

Thanks for reading. Thoughts below!


  • xNigxNig Posts: 7,067 ★★★★★
    Yes it’s definitely a bug.

    SymSup used to have this bug as well and I’m guessing it’s a FIFO system, ie whichever procs first.

    In the past, SymSup doesn’t nullify Venom’s buffs at the start. And that was fixed in a patch.

    Im guessing (yes it’s a guess cause I’m not an expert at programming) what happened in the past was, in sequence:
    - Match starts / Champs start running to each other
    - Attacker abilities proc
    - Defender abilities proc

    This explains why Meph was always able to stop Venom’s buffs before, whereas SymSup doesn’t nullify Venom’s buffs.

    Then a fix was pushed out in an attempt to rectify the SymSup bug, and the sequence was changed to:
    - Match start
    - Defender abilities proc
    - Attacker abilities proc

    This will then explain why SymSup works now but Meph doesn’t as Meph’s Soul Imprisonment does not nullify existing buffs.
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 4,116 ★★★★★
    I think the sequence thing is probably relevant; but ultimately there's an issue with the Klyntar Mutation buff: Mephisto can't shut it down at all, no matter when in the fight it is.

    That's got to be a bug - there's really no other explanation.
  • Hey there, we're passing the questions and info along to the rest of the team.
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 4,116 ★★★★★

    Hey there, we're passing the questions and info along to the rest of the team.

    Thanks for looking into it, Zibiit. Much appreciated.

    Picked up 6* Mephisto a week or two back, so I've been playing him a bit more. Not sure he's ever going to R2 (unless I pick up The Champion to go with him), but there's definitely some uses for him.

    Best synergy team so far is with The Champion, Symbiote Supreme, Dr Strange and Morningstar. Definitely takes the gloves off!

  • RakeYoungRakeYoung Posts: 427 ★★★
    I was just about to start a post on this, glad its already being looked into.
  • MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 4,116 ★★★★★
    Has there been some kind of partial fix on this?

    There's nothing is noted in the Changelog, but Soul Imprisonment does now seem to stop Venom from generating new buffs after the beginning of the fight, including it now stops the Klyntar buff from refreshing.
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