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Is havok top 5 mutant?

2

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  • Options
    Kill_GreyKill_Grey Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    @Rockypantherx we meet again, lol
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    Kill_Grey4112 said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    @Rockypantherx we meet again, lol
    Well I’ve got to be here to annoy people by bashing Havok.
  • Options
    The_enlightenedThe_enlightened Posts: 545 ★★★
    Definitely top 31 of mutants
  • Options
    ImranImran Posts: 587 ★★★
    Yes
    ddom said:

    Close but i think just misses out because mutant is stacked

    Omega red
    Domino
    Colossus
    Archangel
    Sunspot

    U just copy paste seatin opinion here, I respect him. But everyone top 5 will be different.
  • Options
    MagrailothosMagrailothos Posts: 5,368 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Interesting discussion - I think the take-home message in the mutant class is "It's tight at the top".
  • Options
    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,806 ★★★★★
    No
    what are these lists?

    1. Deadpool X-Force
    2. Cyclops Blue
    3. Cyclops Red
    4. Magento
    5. Magento Marvel Now
    6. Gambit
    7. Storm
    8. Cable
    9. Beast
    10. Nightcrawler

    Havok doesn’t come close
  • Options
    QfuryQfury Posts: 1,860 ★★★★★
    No
    I personally don't like havok. Hate his play style. And guess who I have as a 6*
  • Options
    TimeGenesisTimeGenesis Posts: 732 ★★★
    Yes
    Depends..suicides or no suicides?
    Awakened / unawakened?

    Unawakened without a shadow of a doubt he is.

    When it comes to awakened, its a tad bit more difficult as mutant class has such a good amount of great champs

    For me.personally without suicides (no particular order)
    Domino, Namor, Colossus, Havok, AA

    With Suicides
    Domino, Namor, Omega Red, Colossus, Iceman

    My personal top 10
    Domino, Namor, OR, Colossus, Iceman (with suicides), Emma Frost, Havok, Sunspot, Rogue
  • Options
    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,806 ★★★★★
    No
    OneManArmy said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    That is so not true. As soon as you get to an s1 the dmg will start getting good. A good havok player can have their foe constantly ticking for around 2k.
    Beating rol ws in 40ish hits and a time of around 1.20 which isnt the best but certainly not bad either. Hes energy resistent. Incinerate immune. His mediums and heavy dont make contact so hes my fav korg counter. Solo korg on node 23 in aw every war hes there usually with ez. Thats mix master. Ociliate and gain prowess buffs like its christmas.

    To sum up Havoks awesome and just because you dont know how to use a champ to the fullest doesnt make them a bad champ
    but that’s what everyone’s saying about champs like Kamala and Pyramid X.

    Also, everyone’s entitled to their own opinion. I don’t like Havok, but you might.
  • Options
    SwarmOfRavensSwarmOfRavens Posts: 1,264 ★★★★★
    edited August 2020
    Yes
    Gotszbot said:

    lowlevelplayer said:

    ddom said:

    Close but i think just misses out because mutant is stacked

    Omega red
    Domino
    Colossus
    Archangel
    Sunspot

    domino over colossus? All she has is damage. Colossus has damage and utility
    I think that was just in the order he thought of it... He didn't say that was the order lol.
    I've havok 5* and he puts some decent damage however takes waaaay too long to ramp up to be worthwhile in anything act6.2 or later (other than. Incinerate path of CMM). Namor is still op af
    A lot of people have the misconception that havok is slow. If he's at a decent Sig one sp1 is enough to set you up to start melting with feedback.
    I usually have wasp synergy on my team so I don't even bother with the sp1, if the match doesn't end in a sp3 I can cycle another one even faster.

    He's pretty overkill for most fights below 6.2
  • Options
    Kill_GreyKill_Grey Posts: 8,666 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Lol, whoever says havok is mediocre hasn't seen him against variant 4 electro
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    OneManArmy said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    That is so not true. As soon as you get to an s1 the dmg will start getting good. A good havok player can have their foe constantly ticking for around 2k.
    Beating rol ws in 40ish hits and a time of around 1.20 which isnt the best but certainly not bad either. Hes energy resistent. Incinerate immune. His mediums and heavy dont make contact so hes my fav korg counter. Solo korg on node 23 in aw every war hes there usually with ez. Thats mix master. Ociliate and gain prowess buffs like its christmas.

    To sum up Havoks awesome and just because you dont know how to use a champ to the fullest doesnt make them a bad champ
    I do know how to use Havok. God knows I’ve watched every video I can to squeeze something somewhat impressive out of him. And I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. And he’s definitely not beating winter soldier in 40 hits. 1 min 20s is accurate though.

    His energy resistance is the only use I’ve gotten out of him. His non contact mediums are nice, but honestly, outside of thorns and korg it doesn’t do much. If it was like Omega’s and negated passive damage like Magik’s limbo, then yeah, I would value him a lot higher. Incinerate immunity is nice, but it’s possibly the least useful immunity outside of coldsnap immunity. You didn’t even mention he can negate healing with Despair, which is a big portion of his utility. But there are a lot of better options for that and you need to trade it on for your damage on the SP3

    I’m not saying Havok’s a bad champion, but god, I would take most mutants over him

    And yeah, feedback damage is nice. But there are a lot of matchups where getting that off is going to be difficult. Any debuff immune matchup will shut it down, shrug off, energy resistance, hell, even stun immune or limber is going to make it more difficult.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Yes
    My personal list has changed a bit after doing more research on uses in late content, so here it is:
    Omega Red
    Colossus
    Archangel
    Sunspot
    Havok
    Namor
    Domino
    Sabretooth
    Storm (Pyramid X)
    Iceman

    Sabretooth is higher than he used to be thanks to Sasquatch making him more valuable for Endgame content and I've adopted the @Lvernon15 ideology of Domino not being up there with top Mutants in Endgame content after doing some research. I've decided not to include Weapon X in this list and even if I did, he wouldn't be as high as some people put him. Probably below Sabretooth and Storm. His playstyle really isn't practical for most situations.
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
  • Options
    ImranImran Posts: 587 ★★★
    Yes
    SpideyFunko said:

    what are these lists?

    1. Deadpool X-Force
    2. Cyclops Blue
    3. Cyclops Red
    4. Magento
    5. Magento Marvel Now
    6. Gambit
    7. Storm
    8. Cable
    9. Beast
    10. Nightcrawler

    Havok doesn’t come close

    U miss psylocke
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
    Yeah, we all have our own opinions. Pretty nice to hear yours tbh.
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
    Yeah, we all have our own opinions. Pretty nice to hear yours tbh.
    We do indeed. This forum wouldn’t be nearly as interesting or frustrating if we all shared the same view, as much as I might like that sometimes. But I do like hearing other people’s views, especially when they challenge my own

    And I’m always up for sharing my opinion. It’s kind of a running joke in my alliance at this point.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
    Yeah, we all have our own opinions. Pretty nice to hear yours tbh.
    We do indeed. This forum wouldn’t be nearly as interesting or frustrating if we all shared the same view, as much as I might like that sometimes. But I do like hearing other people’s views, especially when they challenge my own

    And I’m always up for sharing my opinion. It’s kind of a running joke in my alliance at this point.
    Lol, I'm one to share my opinion whether it's wanted or not, I hear ya. Plus, I love friendly arguments. A place like the forums are really fun for me. 😂
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
    Yeah, we all have our own opinions. Pretty nice to hear yours tbh.
    We do indeed. This forum wouldn’t be nearly as interesting or frustrating if we all shared the same view, as much as I might like that sometimes. But I do like hearing other people’s views, especially when they challenge my own

    And I’m always up for sharing my opinion. It’s kind of a running joke in my alliance at this point.
    Lol, I'm one to share my opinion whether it's wanted or not, I hear ya. Plus, I love friendly arguments. A place like the forums are really fun for me. 😂
    That’s why I’m here as well. Plus, it’s made me less argumentative in my day to day life. I can unleash it here over things that mean nothing. There is nothing like a healthy debate in my opinion.

  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    Yes
    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
    Yeah, we all have our own opinions. Pretty nice to hear yours tbh.
    We do indeed. This forum wouldn’t be nearly as interesting or frustrating if we all shared the same view, as much as I might like that sometimes. But I do like hearing other people’s views, especially when they challenge my own

    And I’m always up for sharing my opinion. It’s kind of a running joke in my alliance at this point.
    Lol, I'm one to share my opinion whether it's wanted or not, I hear ya. Plus, I love friendly arguments. A place like the forums are really fun for me. 😂
    That’s why I’m here as well. Plus, it’s made me less argumentative in my day to day life. I can unleash it here over things that mean nothing. There is nothing like a healthy debate in my opinion.

    Lol, that's why I'm here. I thought I was the only one. 😂
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    Etjama said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    Havok takes a long time to ramp up but you put Namor higher than him? Like... what? And Namor has only one piece of utility compared to Havok's several. And yes, we know that going for Sp3's is better for Storm than trying to get Sp2 crits with that god-awful crit rate. But she's still way too squishy and has much less utility than Havok. And Emma has some solid utility and decent damage, but you can't have all the utility at once which is a problem honestly. If you need the immunities, you'll still take damage in telepath form and if you need the evade counter, they're still going to evade in diamond form. And the damage isn't nearly as good as other Mutants. She's still top 8 in my opinion, but she's just not quite as good as others.
    Namor makes higher because his utility from his sig allows him to cover so much ground. It’s not perfect, but there are a lot of little bits of utility tapped into that sig that I think it’s more valuable than Havok combined. And I agree, Namor has a slower ramp up. There’s not much between Namor, Sunspot and Havok, but I still stand by that order

    And Storm actually doesn’t have less utility than Havok. She also has in built energy resistance, two immunities, one of which is actually better than a solid immunity, can counter evade, place shocks for Thunderstruck nodes (although that is niche I’ll grant you), and she has energy attacks which allow her to bypass certain mechanics like Korg’s thorns, similarly to Havok. And I compared their damage output at the same star and rank and Havok edged it out by about 5 secs, which is basically nothing. She’s squishy but the random stubs can allow you to push opponents past power thresholds more easily, meaning you have to take less blocked hits

    As for Emma, if you’re playing her right, she stays in diamond form the entire fight so you always have your immunities Her evade counter can easily accessed and maintained if you stay at 3 bars of power. You’ll lose a large portion of damage but it’s still very serviceable. And as far as I know, the only fight in the game where you need these two thing combined is the Nightcrawler miniboss in 6.4. Not to mention that she has concussion on her SP2, a power sting on the SP1 which is vital for ‘That’s Gonna Sting’, she easily accesses prowess for Special connoisseur. Those two nodes are major roadblocks for a lot of players going through Act 6. Not to mention she has a taunt on her heavy in diamond form which can be incredibly useful. Add consistent 80k SP2 that she can reach quicker than other champion through utilising her heavy attack in diamond form, and I’m sorry, but you, and a lot of other players significantly undervalues Emma.
    Yeah, we all have our own opinions. Pretty nice to hear yours tbh.
    We do indeed. This forum wouldn’t be nearly as interesting or frustrating if we all shared the same view, as much as I might like that sometimes. But I do like hearing other people’s views, especially when they challenge my own

    And I’m always up for sharing my opinion. It’s kind of a running joke in my alliance at this point.
    Lol, I'm one to share my opinion whether it's wanted or not, I hear ya. Plus, I love friendly arguments. A place like the forums are really fun for me. 😂
    That’s why I’m here as well. Plus, it’s made me less argumentative in my day to day life. I can unleash it here over things that mean nothing. There is nothing like a healthy debate in my opinion.

    Lol, that's why I'm here. I thought I was the only one. 😂
    Nope, you are not alone😂
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★
    No
    OneManArmy said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    OneManArmy said:

    Rockypantherx said:

    In my opinion (remember that before you kill me), Havok is vastly overrated. Large parts of his utility are fairly niche.

    His damage, while the big number looks good, has a slow buildup so most other good champions have already beaten the fight.

    If I were to rank the mutants it would look something like this:

    Omega Red
    Archangel
    Colossus
    Emma Frost
    Domino
    Namor
    Sunspot
    Havok/Storm X

    As you can see, I do not value Havok. I have at R4 as a 5*, was really excited to pull him, but he has collected dust for about 18 months now. I used him for two paths in Act 6 and was it. And if you’re wondering why I put him and Storm X at the same level, you, or the videos you’ve seen of her, are playing her wrong.

    Also, anyone putting Sunspot or Havok above Emma is nuts.

    That is so not true. As soon as you get to an s1 the dmg will start getting good. A good havok player can have their foe constantly ticking for around 2k.
    Beating rol ws in 40ish hits and a time of around 1.20 which isnt the best but certainly not bad either. Hes energy resistent. Incinerate immune. His mediums and heavy dont make contact so hes my fav korg counter. Solo korg on node 23 in aw every war hes there usually with ez. Thats mix master. Ociliate and gain prowess buffs like its christmas.

    To sum up Havoks awesome and just because you dont know how to use a champ to the fullest doesnt make them a bad champ
    I do know how to use Havok. God knows I’ve watched every video I can to squeeze something somewhat impressive out of him. And I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. And he’s definitely not beating winter soldier in 40 hits. 1 min 20s is accurate though.

    His energy resistance is the only use I’ve gotten out of him. His non contact mediums are nice, but honestly, outside of thorns and korg it doesn’t do much. If it was like Omega’s and negated passive damage like Magik’s limbo, then yeah, I would value him a lot higher. Incinerate immunity is nice, but it’s possibly the least useful immunity outside of coldsnap immunity. You didn’t even mention he can negate healing with Despair, which is a big portion of his utility. But there are a lot of better options for that and you need to trade it on for your damage on the SP3

    I’m not saying Havok’s a bad champion, but god, I would take most mutants over him

    And yeah, feedback damage is nice. But there are a lot of matchups where getting that off is going to be difficult. Any debuff immune matchup will shut it down, shrug off, energy resistance, hell, even stun immune or limber is going to make it more difficult.
    you say you know how to but then you say stuff like " def not beating ws in 40 hits" like you didnt even bother to double check on YT beforehand, i know KT1 got one out with 42 hits since you cant take my word for it. like i said, a great havok player have them constantly ticking on the feedback
    I say that because I’ve done WS playing Havok like KT1 plays him and it’s well above 40 hits. In fact I did it today to check and it was well over 40 hits. Mine is a R4, but it shouldn’t be as high as it actually is.

  • Options
    GreekhitGreekhit Posts: 2,819 ★★★★★
    No
    Havok is competing for spot no6.
    Anything more is just plain Overrating, considering how stacked the class is.
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