Anyone else believe the AI knows which champ it's facing and adjusts accordingly?

hungryhungrybbq

Not necessarily a complaint, just an observation that I can't realistically deny anymore. Keep in mind I'm just referring to high end content AI. Not all AI.

Attack with Ghost: passive.. backs off, but maybe tries to attack the instant the phase will expire
Attack with Quake: insanely agressive
Attack with Omega: seems to instinctively back away when death field is up
Attack with Corvus (without an evade charge): Evade champs suddenly won't evade (Even Ultron after 7 seconds)

I wasn't ever completely sure. I knew that there was always the possibility that it's just the perspective we are observing it from (we want them to behave a certain way and only take note when they do not). After the AQ fight I just did, it's really hard for me to deny it now. Map 7/sec 2, there's an NC with the defensive node. I decided to try Ghost. Yep, totally passive. Literally spamming dash back after dash back over and over. I lost (entered with low health). Ok, I decided.. let's try Quake then. She loves passive AI. He immediately dashed in and began swinging non stop the entire fight:) This is with the Defensive node mind you. Just thought it was funny. I think high end AI are way more aware of their situation than we give them credit for sometimes. Oh, side note: pretty sure I had a SG dex my Ghost sp2 in sec 1. Not evade, but dex it (critical hits cannot be evaded).. not sure how else to describe it. Thoughts?

Hoitado

I’ve been playing with Emma Frost recently and she needs Crits to get Prowess but whenever I try to get hits in the A.I starts blocking like Crazy and I can’t get any hits.

Also I have started versing a Master Interceptor A.I which is so annoying

Esket1t_420

i’ve definitely noticed it with certain ghost matchups. i’ve found that very hard hittimg champs seem to play very aggressive while weaker champs play extremely passive

Bugmat78

hungryhungrybbq said:

Not necessarily a complaint, just an observation that I can't realistically deny anymore. Keep in mind I'm just referring to high end content AI. Not all AI.

Attack with Ghost: passive.. backs off, but maybe tries to attack the instant the phase will expire
Attack with Quake: insanely agressive
Attack with Omega: seems to instinctively back away when death field is up
Attack with Corvus (without an evade charge): Evade champs suddenly won't evade (Even Ultron after 7 seconds)

I wasn't ever completely sure. I knew that there was always the possibility that it's just the perspective we are observing it from (we want them to behave a certain way and only take note when they do not). After the AQ fight I just did, it's really hard for me to deny it now. Map 7/sec 2, there's an NC with the defensive node. I decided to try Ghost. Yep, totally passive. Literally spamming dash back after dash back over and over. I lost (entered with low health). Ok, I decided.. let's try Quake then. She loves passive AI. He immediately dashed in and began swinging non stop the entire fight:) This is with the Defensive node mind you. Just thought it was funny. I think high end AI are way more aware of their situation than we give them credit for sometimes. Oh, side note: pretty sure I had a SG dex my Ghost sp2 in sec 1. Not evade, but dex it (critical hits cannot be evaded).. not sure how else to describe it. Thoughts?

I didn't know this was up for debate - it is clear the code is tuned to certain champions or rather the style of play used most frequently with them. I've got Ghost, Quake & CG at 5/65 and what you say is true.

Only quake uses the heavy + [parry/evade style so that's quite easy to code for w/o specifically having to ensure it is only vs quake. I'm sure if you try to play quake like say Iron patriot, the aggresiveness tones down because of the difference in play style/inputs. Additionally, no other attacker uses the style popular for Ghost - no other attacker idles (in phase) vs the AI so also very easy to code for - depending on the content they will consistently rush in (eg AW it seems to work) or they will wait it out.

The corvus evade issue is more questionable, yet one regularly seen in AQ at least for me when I carry Proxima - you don't get an evade until they are at too low health to survive the knockdown is something I will see 4 out of 6 times per AQ cycle. It could of course be selective memory, but given when you use other champs that can't counter evades, the evade incidence is almost 80%, you can't but wonder. The trick I've found is never count on getting an evade and play like it won't happen - that's usually when it does!

Snizzbar

I find that if I take OG Thor into a fight instead of attacking the first thing the AI does is back off to avoid the parry and armour break. In my experience it doesn't happen with any other champ.

Rayaan_2000

hungryhungrybbq said:

Not necessarily a complaint, just an observation that I can't realistically deny anymore. Keep in mind I'm just referring to high end content AI. Not all AI.

Attack with Ghost: passive.. backs off, but maybe tries to attack the instant the phase will expire
Attack with Quake: insanely agressive
Attack with Omega: seems to instinctively back away when death field is up
Attack with Corvus (without an evade charge): Evade champs suddenly won't evade (Even Ultron after 7 seconds)

I wasn't ever completely sure. I knew that there was always the possibility that it's just the perspective we are observing it from (we want them to behave a certain way and only take note when they do not). After the AQ fight I just did, it's really hard for me to deny it now. Map 7/sec 2, there's an NC with the defensive node. I decided to try Ghost. Yep, totally passive. Literally spamming dash back after dash back over and over. I lost (entered with low health). Ok, I decided.. let's try Quake then. She loves passive AI. He immediately dashed in and began swinging non stop the entire fight:) This is with the Defensive node mind you. Just thought it was funny. I think high end AI are way more aware of their situation than we give them credit for sometimes. Oh, side note: pretty sure I had a SG dex my Ghost sp2 in sec 1. Not evade, but dex it (critical hits cannot be evaded).. not sure how else to describe it. Thoughts?

Did you try whiffing a couple of hits using quake?? Because that often calms the AI down and they're not as aggressive after that

hungryhungrybbq

Mostly, I just thought it was insane, the difference in behavior from NC with a Defensive node active. It was literally night and day. With Ghost he was just dashing back over an over.. in place even..like 4, 5 6 dash backs in a row. And I'm not even coming at him. Then I go in with Quake, same Defensive node active and he becomes a mad man.. dashing in without hesitation, and swinging as fast as he can. It's as if not only did the Defensive node go away, but the Aggressive node was added in it's place. It was laughable and completely inexplicable other than he intentionally changed his playstyle based on the situation and completely disregarded the defensive node like it didn't exist. Not sure what those who disagree, disagree about. Let me know, thanks. That's the whole reason I posted was to get different perspectives from folks. Don't just drop a disagree and leave:) Let us know your opinion.

Iron_Patriot_is_lit

Another mcoc conspiracist.

hungryhungrybbq

Iron_Patriot_is_lit said:

Another mcoc conspiracist.

*retrieves tin foil hat from drawer*
Nah, just noticing odd patterns and wondering if anyone else notices them. I'll try to remember to record that NCs behavior next time. If I also happen to have both Ghost and Quake on the team.

Polygon

Everytime I phase with Ghost the AI dexes back so I agree with you there

Sw0rdMaster

The AI definately reacts differently with different champs.

I've been repeating the same fight over and over again, and it's came to a point where I pretty much have an idea how the AI will react when I use certain champs.

This is not a bad thing, it just means I'm more prepare and know how to counter.

danielmath

hungryhungrybbq said:

Mostly, I just thought it was insane, the difference in behavior from NC with a Defensive node active. It was literally night and day. With Ghost he was just dashing back over an over.. in place even..like 4, 5 6 dash backs in a row. And I'm not even coming at him. Then I go in with Quake, same Defensive node active and he becomes a mad man.. dashing in without hesitation, and swinging as fast as he can. It's as if not only did the Defensive node go away, but the Aggressive node was added in it's place. It was laughable and completely inexplicable other than he intentionally changed his playstyle based on the situation and completely disregarded the defensive node like it didn't exist. Not sure what those who disagree, disagree about. Let me know, thanks. That's the whole reason I posted was to get different perspectives from folks. Don't just drop a disagree and leave:) Let us know your opinion.

With quake you are throwing a heavy the entire fight. Try to go in with a different champ and just heavy over and over, you’ll get attacked constantly

Man_Bat

I’ve noticed two cases, though I can’t say if either was just a one off at this moment:

1. Medusa: the AI knows to wait until her furies expire and switches from passive to aggressive; and
   
2. Claire: champs who proc buffs will wait until Buff Immunity expires and then attack.
   

BestRecon

Don’t forget mordo, he will hold his block while he has power gain active.

BestRecon

Never mind my above post, that’s Mordos ai and not when he’s going against someone else.

Nameless_IW

of course the AI knows who they are fighting. on top of that they add even more advantages known as global nodes. Also another conspiracy, doesn't matter how critical your special hits, they will always or 8 out of 10 times will ended up in 1%. with huge chances you will get hit next lol

Djin

The AI is smarter than many forum users....lol

danielmath

Ya_Boi_28 said:

Don't forget how it is when you try to phase an L3 with ghost. The AI will wait till the phase expires to throw it. With any other champ it's automatic.

Really? I don’t use ghost at all anymore but when i ran her in war for every fight this never happened once. It also didn’t happen in my 6.4 legends run. Are you talking about arena when building the streak?

hungryhungrybbq

danielmath said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

Mostly, I just thought it was insane, the difference in behavior from NC with a Defensive node active. It was literally night and day. With Ghost he was just dashing back over an over.. in place even..like 4, 5 6 dash backs in a row. And I'm not even coming at him. Then I go in with Quake, same Defensive node active and he becomes a mad man.. dashing in without hesitation, and swinging as fast as he can. It's as if not only did the Defensive node go away, but the Aggressive node was added in it's place. It was laughable and completely inexplicable other than he intentionally changed his playstyle based on the situation and completely disregarded the defensive node like it didn't exist. Not sure what those who disagree, disagree about. Let me know, thanks. That's the whole reason I posted was to get different perspectives from folks. Don't just drop a disagree and leave:) Let us know your opinion.

With quake you are throwing a heavy the entire fight. Try to go in with a different champ and just heavy over and over, you’ll get attacked constantly

Understood, but in this particular match, he never dashed back or even really blocked (with the Defensive node active) , not once. In the beginning of the fight, he was way more aggressive (before he would be able to see a pattern of holding heavy). In contrast, when I entered Ghost, his opening move was dash back...4 times in a row:) Also, if charging a heavy invites an attack (which weird cause they could be blasted in the face by a heavy), wouldn't standing idle (Ghost) invite an attack even more by this line of thinking?

danielmath

hungryhungrybbq said:

danielmath said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

Mostly, I just thought it was insane, the difference in behavior from NC with a Defensive node active. It was literally night and day. With Ghost he was just dashing back over an over.. in place even..like 4, 5 6 dash backs in a row. And I'm not even coming at him. Then I go in with Quake, same Defensive node active and he becomes a mad man.. dashing in without hesitation, and swinging as fast as he can. It's as if not only did the Defensive node go away, but the Aggressive node was added in it's place. It was laughable and completely inexplicable other than he intentionally changed his playstyle based on the situation and completely disregarded the defensive node like it didn't exist. Not sure what those who disagree, disagree about. Let me know, thanks. That's the whole reason I posted was to get different perspectives from folks. Don't just drop a disagree and leave:) Let us know your opinion.

With quake you are throwing a heavy the entire fight. Try to go in with a different champ and just heavy over and over, you’ll get attacked constantly

Understood, but in this particular match, he never dashed back or even really blocked (with the Defensive node active) , not once. In the beginning of the fight, he was way more aggressive (before he would be able to see a pattern of holding heavy). In contrast, when I entered Ghost, his opening move was dash back...4 times in a row:)

When you were using quake though, were you fighting quake style or just regular? If you use ghost and just heavy charge, does the AI also stand back?

hungryhungrybbq

danielmath said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

danielmath said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

Mostly, I just thought it was insane, the difference in behavior from NC with a Defensive node active. It was literally night and day. With Ghost he was just dashing back over an over.. in place even..like 4, 5 6 dash backs in a row. And I'm not even coming at him. Then I go in with Quake, same Defensive node active and he becomes a mad man.. dashing in without hesitation, and swinging as fast as he can. It's as if not only did the Defensive node go away, but the Aggressive node was added in it's place. It was laughable and completely inexplicable other than he intentionally changed his playstyle based on the situation and completely disregarded the defensive node like it didn't exist. Not sure what those who disagree, disagree about. Let me know, thanks. That's the whole reason I posted was to get different perspectives from folks. Don't just drop a disagree and leave:) Let us know your opinion.

With quake you are throwing a heavy the entire fight. Try to go in with a different champ and just heavy over and over, you’ll get attacked constantly

Understood, but in this particular match, he never dashed back or even really blocked (with the Defensive node active) , not once. In the beginning of the fight, he was way more aggressive (before he would be able to see a pattern of holding heavy). In contrast, when I entered Ghost, his opening move was dash back...4 times in a row:)

When you were using quake though, were you fighting quake style or just regular? If you use ghost and just heavy charge, does the AI also stand back?

Edited above comment. No, but.. why would a heavy charge invite an attack where standing open doesn't? I guess would be the question there. But now we're getting into another question. Do high end AI recognize phasing?

hungryhungrybbq

And, in this discussion, we're specifically looking at behavior while under the influence of the Defensive node. If standing idle creates a passive/retreat response, why does charging a heavy invite agressive attacks?

danielmath

hungryhungrybbq said:

danielmath said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

danielmath said:

hungryhungrybbq said:

Mostly, I just thought it was insane, the difference in behavior from NC with a Defensive node active. It was literally night and day. With Ghost he was just dashing back over an over.. in place even..like 4, 5 6 dash backs in a row. And I'm not even coming at him. Then I go in with Quake, same Defensive node active and he becomes a mad man.. dashing in without hesitation, and swinging as fast as he can. It's as if not only did the Defensive node go away, but the Aggressive node was added in it's place. It was laughable and completely inexplicable other than he intentionally changed his playstyle based on the situation and completely disregarded the defensive node like it didn't exist. Not sure what those who disagree, disagree about. Let me know, thanks. That's the whole reason I posted was to get different perspectives from folks. Don't just drop a disagree and leave:) Let us know your opinion.

With quake you are throwing a heavy the entire fight. Try to go in with a different champ and just heavy over and over, you’ll get attacked constantly

Understood, but in this particular match, he never dashed back or even really blocked (with the Defensive node active) , not once. In the beginning of the fight, he was way more aggressive (before he would be able to see a pattern of holding heavy). In contrast, when I entered Ghost, his opening move was dash back...4 times in a row:)

When you were using quake though, were you fighting quake style or just regular? If you use ghost and just heavy charge, does the AI also stand back?

Edited above comment. No, but.. why would a heavy charge invite an attack where standing open doesn't? I guess would be the question there. But now we're getting into another question. Do high end AI recognize phasing?

This isn’t something i see so i’m more curious then anything

IKON

There are several instances when the defensive champion effects AI, however the champion you use has no effect.

What you are almost certainly seeing is you playing differently because your using a different champion. You don't play all these champions the same way, so you should expect to see differences in how they play you.

Ghost was mentioned as an example, how many fights do you complete by doing 4 hit combos, backing off and not blocking consistently? Its not the champion the AI is reacting to, its you playing differently.