Endgame content - where are we headed?

Superc9

Since story content is being aimed at average players, is the endgame community going to see less content?

If this is the case, then then it's going to alienate and bore endgamers into retirement. I don't see Kabam foolish enough to do this, but I'm curious where we're going.

They mentioned summer of pain and introduced the TB title. When are going to see permanent non-story content aimed at endgamers?

Rockypantherx

The next variant probably, which they said in the dev diaries they hoped to have out by the end of the year, although no guarantees

Also, ‘summer of pain’, if that’s still a thing

GroundedWisdom

It's not being aimed at average Players. It's just not being designed around continually challenging the top percentile. There's a huge difference.

Worknprogress

Rockypantherx said:

The next variant probably, which they said in the dev diaries they hoped to have out by the end of the year, although no guarantees

Also, ‘summer of pain’, if that’s still a thing

V5 was supposed to be the first with increased difficulty and was one of the easiest yet.

danielmath

Superc9 said:

Since story content is being aimed at average players, is the endgame community going to see less content?

If this is the case, then then it's going to alienate and bore endgamers into retirement. I don't see Kabam foolish enough to do this, but I'm curious where we're going.

They mentioned summer of pain and introduced the TB title. When are going to see permanent non-story content aimed at endgamers?

I believe at this point, difficult content is dead. Since we don't have book 2 anymore, the summer of pain event is the only hope but even that's just 1 event, nothing permanent.

SpideyFunko

they should make another V1-style piece of content, that’s hard

Edit: Since the next one is based on the Netflix shows you can only use Netflix Daredevil

IKON

Undoubtedly, we're gonna get watered down content from now on.

danielmath

Rockypantherx said:

The next variant probably, which they said in the dev diaries they hoped to have out by the end of the year, although no guarantees

Also, ‘summer of pain’, if that’s still a thing

The biggest challenge of variant 5 was that i had to turn off suicides for a couple days lol

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GroundedWisdom

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

Rockypantherx

Worknprogress said:

Rockypantherx said:

The next variant probably, which they said in the dev diaries they hoped to have out by the end of the year, although no guarantees

Also, ‘summer of pain’, if that’s still a thing

V5 was supposed to be the first with increased difficulty and was one of the easiest yet.

danielmath said:

Superc9 said:

Since story content is being aimed at average players, is the endgame community going to see less content?

If this is the case, then then it's going to alienate and bore endgamers into retirement. I don't see Kabam foolish enough to do this, but I'm curious where we're going.

They mentioned summer of pain and introduced the TB title. When are going to see permanent non-story content aimed at endgamers?

I believe at this point, difficult content is dead. Since we don't have book 2 anymore, the summer of pain event is the only hope but even that's just 1 event, nothing permanent.

Oh I agree, but it’s the closest they’ll get.

danielmath

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.2

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GroundedWisdom

danielmath said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.2

So you're saying they shouldn't have nerfed it.

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naikavon

The issue isn't necessarily about the content for story being too easy. Nerfed or not, it was bound to happen where player rosters and skill superceded the content when you have a large player base. Maybe the throne breaker title will alleviate that to some degree, that's yet to be seen.

Honestly, a better competitive game mode would better solve the issue for end game players but what do I know... it's only how just about every other game works lol.

danielmath

GroundedWisdom said:

danielmath said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.2

So you're saying they shouldn't have nerfed it.

IMO they should've gotten rid of EMP mod on sinister, gotten rid of strengths in numbers on mordo, and gotten rid of no retreat on champion. That's it

CoatHang3r

GroundedWisdom said:

danielmath said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.2

So you're saying they shouldn't have nerfed it.

Yes, so he could repeat that instead of playing new content...what the heck are you getting at? He wants challenging content he can look forward to.

StevieManWonder

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.3 would be the ideal level of challenge for me, except now with bigger healthpools

danielmath

CoatHang3r said:

GroundedWisdom said:

danielmath said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.2

So you're saying they shouldn't have nerfed it.

Yes, so he could repeat that instead of playing new content...what the heck are you getting at? He wants challenging content he can look forward to.

Ya, also this. You don't repeat content so it being nerfed only affects me negatively in the long run, because making everything easy allows players to progress without developing skills, which makes it so kabam has to keep all content easy. It's an endless cycle.

GroundedWisdom

CoatHang3r said:

GroundedWisdom said:

danielmath said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Serious question. For people saying it's too easy and watered down to nothing, what level of challenge is satisfactory? What's the last thing you called challenging? There's only so much they can put out, and other people have to be able to grow into things as well. Some people are beyond the game. They could release Summer of Pain, and there would still be some that say, "Wasn't that bad.".

6.2

So you're saying they shouldn't have nerfed it.

Yes, so he could repeat that instead of playing new content...what the heck are you getting at? He wants challenging content he can look forward to.

Playing new content in that sense would have perpetually excluded more and more people from doing it. What I'm getting at is that objective for progressive Story is dangerous for the game. Unless you don't mind separating the vast majority from content, and creating an island. In which case, why not make a separate game?

Rockypantherx

Why do I feel like I’m in the minority of the endgame that doesn’t think everything should be 6.2.

I just want fun content. I don’t find **** like 6.2 interesting or engaging, I find it boring and unmotivating. I’m absolutely looking forward to 7.1. Does it look super difficult. No. Does it look like fun content I want to play in a freaking game. Yes.

danielmath

Rockypantherx said:

Why do I feel like I’m in the minority of the endgame that doesn’t think everything should be 6.2.

I just want fun content. I don’t find **** like 6.2 interesting or engaging, I find it boring and unmotivating. I’m absolutely looking forward to 7.1. Does it look super difficult. No. Does it look like fun content I want to play in a freaking game. Yes.

For some people challenge = fun, though certainly not for everyone. The highest approval rating for an event was gwenpool goes to the movies and the lowest was the maze. If they had equal rewards, i'd rather have the maze 100/100 times.

Rockypantherx

danielmath said:

Rockypantherx said:

Why do I feel like I’m in the minority of the endgame that doesn’t think everything should be 6.2.

I just want fun content. I don’t find **** like 6.2 interesting or engaging, I find it boring and unmotivating. I’m absolutely looking forward to 7.1. Does it look super difficult. No. Does it look like fun content I want to play in a freaking game. Yes.

For some people challenge = fun, though certainly not for everyone. The highest approval rating for an event was gwenpool goes to the movies and the lowest was the maze. If they had equal rewards, i'd rather have the maze 100/100 times.

Absolutely. I think that’s what’s often lost in translation. People have different views on what’s fun, and you simply can’t strike a balance. So the question becomes, who’s should Kabam cater to? People who enjoy insanely difficult content or people who enjoy insanely easy content?

Multiple people in this thread have pointed out that it seems ‘difficult’ content is being aimed at ‘average’ players. I think that’s because they’re trying to make everyone happy and strike that balance. To be honest, I don’t see how you really do anything else. It might be the case where players such as yourself, who enjoy the really difficult stuff, get it less often, so that Kabam satisfies the majority of players

Whether that’s right or wrong you can decide, but that’s what I think they’re doing.

Worknprogress

Rockypantherx said:

Why do I feel like I’m in the minority of the endgame that doesn’t think everything should be 6.2.

I just want fun content. I don’t find **** like 6.2 interesting or engaging, I find it boring and unmotivating. I’m absolutely looking forward to 7.1. Does it look super difficult. No. Does it look like fun content I want to play in a freaking game. Yes.

My only problem is this, historically the drive to push you roster in size and strength was always dictated by knowing you would need it for whatever content comes next. If you know that you can explore what's next with everything you already have if not even far less, what's the driving force behind pushing your roster farther? For me there isn't one. It just becomes bragging rights which I personally couldn't care less about. That's not worth pushing content for let alone spending for.

If the highest level of your playerbase no longer has any motivation to continue pushing, that's a problem imo. While I don't think the entirety of the game should be devoted to them at all, if they only have something every 3 years or so that's interesting they're not gonna stick around long

Pintzz

I think an example for me would be when Uncollected EQ was released it was difficult because my roster wasn’t fully ready for it. Took a bit more to do it (-Ice Phoenix) lol.
But when Cavalier EQ dropped I was expecting a challenge relative to more endgame rosters. Which I personally didn’t find was the case. I found UC apocalypse and it’s Passive AI harder the. The Cavalier difficult Apoc

Rockypantherx

Worknprogress said:

Rockypantherx said:

Why do I feel like I’m in the minority of the endgame that doesn’t think everything should be 6.2.

I just want fun content. I don’t find **** like 6.2 interesting or engaging, I find it boring and unmotivating. I’m absolutely looking forward to 7.1. Does it look super difficult. No. Does it look like fun content I want to play in a freaking game. Yes.

My only problem is this, historically the drive to push you roster in size and strength was always dictated by knowing you would need it for whatever content comes next. If you know that you can explore what's next with everything you already have if not even far less, what's the driving force behind pushing your roster farther? For me there isn't one. It just becomes bragging rights which I personally couldn't care less about. That's not worth pushing content for let alone spending for.

If the highest level of your playerbase no longer has any motivation to continue pushing, that's a problem imo. While I don't think the entirety of the game should be devoted to them at all, if they only have something every 3 years or so that's interesting they're not gonna stick around long

That’s fair. I do think there could be an issue with things becoming stupidly restrictive when completing focusing on roster depth though. There is a limit to how restrictive it can get. An example I used in another thread was how long is it if we go down that path until we reach stuff like

You need an incinerate immune champ, that has a double hit medium, has a Fury and bleeds the opponent. Because by act 8 with the current trend of restrictiveness, I think that’s where we’ll end up.

Honestly, I think new mechanics is the way to go. Stuff like ‘Root’ and ‘Strikers’. I think the game is kind of reaching the end of its tether with relying on skill or roster depth, or at least, it will very soon

Genuinely, they should have stupid hard stuff for you guys at the very, very top maybe every 6 months or so. So, for example, abyss in January, and whatever summer of pain could theoretically be. Of course, there is the issue you guys will blow through it in a few days anyway, but if you can, why not?