Dual Crystals are becoming a JOKE!

DuffMcGruffDuffMcGruff Member Posts: 401 ★★★
in General Discussion
I have opened roughly 25-30 of these cosmic/tech dual crystals looking for Cap Marvel or Surfer for prestige (or even venom).

I have pulled the below champ to take him from sig 0 to sig 120... Yes i understand RNG, but this is getting a bit RIDICULOUS! It's ruining the game for me. But yet i keep getting another crystal because next time will be different... But it never is...

These crystals were supposed to be the next big thing!! But I'm tired of them already...

Sincerely,
Frustrated



«134

Comments

  • RiderofHellRiderofHell Member Posts: 4,652 ★★★★★
    Wait till wish crystals come and dont get what you want 🤣
  • BlackTuranBlackTuran Member Posts: 1,019 ★★★★
    I got Captain Marvel Classic, Annihilus and Warlock from those. RNG gotta RNG
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    Duff12475 said:

    Lormif said:

    you expect to open 25-30 crystals and be guaranteed the champ you want out of what 60 champs?

    To be honest, it's not that i EXPECT to get the champ i want, but I do not expect to get the same champ this many times in this way. It deflates motivation 100000%. And what can be done about it? Nothing. I'd love to see the actual game code showing ACTUAL RNG rather than the **** some of get
    How is exactly is it not showing actual RNG? Just curious to know how your experience isn't RNG.
  • WOLF_LINKWOLF_LINK Member Posts: 1,376 ★★★★
    You are still free to take the regular or featured 5* Crystals. Duals are just a nice addition, but not everything. I only chose them if I wanted specific ISO. But usually only rolling featured 5*
  • Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Member Posts: 4,157 ★★★★★
    If you are getting trash from the duals, just mix it up and open a regular/featured then return to duals again.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited October 2020
    This content has been removed.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    Joker1976 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Duff12475 said:

    Lormif said:

    you expect to open 25-30 crystals and be guaranteed the champ you want out of what 60 champs?

    To be honest, it's not that i EXPECT to get the champ i want, but I do not expect to get the same champ this many times in this way. It deflates motivation 100000%. And what can be done about it? Nothing. I'd love to see the actual game code showing ACTUAL RNG rather than the **** some of get
    How is exactly is it not showing actual RNG? Just curious to know how your experience isn't RNG.
    Sorry bro I actually agree with him that somethings not right,..maybe it’s bugged like everything else in this game,..it’s like it locks into this repetitive thing. Had the same experience with the last featured crystals where I pulled Emma frost like 5 times over,..and same with dual skill / mutant it’s like rouge rouge rouge rouge rouge,..what kinda RNG is that lol,..wouldn’t ever happen for winning lottery #s and that’s RNG. I’m a skeptic would love to see it cause I don’t believe it to be true,...these crystals remind me of the record player where the needle gets stuck and keeps flipping back to the spot it was before,..over and over and over again.
    Do me a favor before you comment anymore about RNG. Look up the definition, come back here, re-read everything you just typed and learn from your mistakes.
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Back of the envelope here, but assuming there are ~50 champs in the tech/cosmic dual pool, that means you have ~2% chance of pulling any one of them with each spin.

    Across 25 dual class crystals, if you wanted just one of the champs, you’d have about a 40% chance of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals. If it was either of a pair of champs, your odds of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals improves to around 64%.

    The calculation for pulling the same champ 6X over 25 dual crystal pulls is more complex, but it is fair to say that has a very, very low probability (I assume you mean 6X when you say your Goblin is now L120).

    Repeated similar outcomes aren't impossible under pRNG systems. In fact, they may occur more so than we might think of as “normally random.”

    While I do not doubt that some form of valid pRNG engine underpins the game, OP makes a point that is often made here: namely, that it “feels” like there are a lot of very rare results on the disadvantageous
    side     that pop up in game.

    Observation bias? Something else? At some point, it is fruitless to speculate because we will never see the code.

    But I will say that I empathize with OP, as does anyone else who has played this game for a period of time, because it does quite often seem like the odds aren’t in our favor—even when they should be.

    Dr. Zola

    Its bias. The people who complain are the people who it happens to, therefore they are amplified above the actual threshold for the generator. There are going to be many people who get sub optimal results, and many who get better than optimal results, but only one group is going to be upset about it.
  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,119 ★★★★★
    Crcrcrc said:

    DrZola said:

    Back of the envelope here, but assuming there are ~50 champs in the tech/cosmic dual pool, that means you have ~2% chance of pulling any one of them with each spin.

    Across 25 dual class crystals, if you wanted just one of the champs, you’d have about a 40% chance of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals. If it was either of a pair of champs, your odds of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals improves to around 64%.

    The calculation for pulling the same champ 6X over 25 dual crystal pulls is more complex, but it is fair to say that has a very, very low probability (I assume you mean 6X when you say your Goblin is now L120).

    Repeated similar outcomes aren't impossible under pRNG systems. In fact, they may occur more so than we might think of as “normally random.”

    While I do not doubt that some form of valid pRNG engine underpins the game, OP makes a point that is often made here: namely, that it “feels” like there are a lot of very rare results on the disadvantageous
    side     that pop up in game.

    Observation bias? Something else? At some point, it is fruitless to speculate because we will never see the code.

    But I will say that I empathize with OP, as does anyone else who has played this game for a period of time, because it does quite often seem like the odds aren’t in our favor—even when they should be.

    Dr. Zola

    That is a good point. If someone wanted Karnak and Groot, would they get 6 Aegons just so they were disappointed? It seems that the rng never fails to be against you
    Who knows? I don’t see many people complaining about pulling the same top-tier champ over and over but that may be because there’s little to complain about. At the same time, it seems like the subject of a brag post we would see quite a bit if it happened over and over.

    All moot. Whatever pRNG the game uses works this way and it is futile to hope otherwise.

    Dr. Zola
  • WRIRWRIR Member Posts: 563 ★★★
    I dunno bruh I opened one today and got Namor so I'm not complainin
  • danielmathdanielmath Member Posts: 4,103 ★★★★★
    DrZola said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    DrZola said:

    Back of the envelope here, but assuming there are ~50 champs in the tech/cosmic dual pool, that means you have ~2% chance of pulling any one of them with each spin.

    Across 25 dual class crystals, if you wanted just one of the champs, you’d have about a 40% chance of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals. If it was either of a pair of champs, your odds of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals improves to around 64%.

    The calculation for pulling the same champ 6X over 25 dual crystal pulls is more complex, but it is fair to say that has a very, very low probability (I assume you mean 6X when you say your Goblin is now L120).

    Repeated similar outcomes aren't impossible under pRNG systems. In fact, they may occur more so than we might think of as “normally random.”

    While I do not doubt that some form of valid pRNG engine underpins the game, OP makes a point that is often made here: namely, that it “feels” like there are a lot of very rare results on the disadvantageous
    side     that pop up in game.

    Observation bias? Something else? At some point, it is fruitless to speculate because we will never see the code.

    But I will say that I empathize with OP, as does anyone else who has played this game for a period of time, because it does quite often seem like the odds aren’t in our favor—even when they should be.

    Dr. Zola

    That is a good point. If someone wanted Karnak and Groot, would they get 6 Aegons just so they were disappointed? It seems that the rng never fails to be against you
    Who knows? I don’t see many people complaining about pulling the same top-tier champ over and over but that may be because there’s little to complain about. At the same time, it seems like the subject of a brag post we would see quite a bit if it happened over and over.

    All moot. Whatever pRNG the game uses works this way and it is futile to hope otherwise.

    Dr. Zola
    we had a guy open 5 of the skill/mutant crystals and get 3 nick fury's, you'll just never really see those posts because nobody is gonna go the extra step beyond just sharing it with their alliance or friends and actually post it on here
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    Duff12475 said:

    Lormif said:

    you expect to open 25-30 crystals and be guaranteed the champ you want out of what 60 champs?

    To be honest, it's not that i EXPECT to get the champ i want, but I do not expect to get the same champ this many times in this way. It deflates motivation 100000%. And what can be done about it? Nothing. I'd love to see the actual game code showing ACTUAL RNG rather than the **** some of get
    This is not how statistics and RNG works. There is a probability for what happened to you, meaning it can, and likely will happen to at least one person. You drew that straw, it happens. If it deflates your motivation your best bet is not free to play/ pay to win faster type games that rely on rng.
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • DrZolaDrZola Member Posts: 9,119 ★★★★★
    danielmath said:

    DrZola said:

    Crcrcrc said:

    DrZola said:

    Back of the envelope here, but assuming there are ~50 champs in the tech/cosmic dual pool, that means you have ~2% chance of pulling any one of them with each spin.

    Across 25 dual class crystals, if you wanted just one of the champs, you’d have about a 40% chance of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals. If it was either of a pair of champs, your odds of pulling him or her once over 25 crystals improves to around 64%.

    The calculation for pulling the same champ 6X over 25 dual crystal pulls is more complex, but it is fair to say that has a very, very low probability (I assume you mean 6X when you say your Goblin is now L120).

    Repeated similar outcomes aren't impossible under pRNG systems. In fact, they may occur more so than we might think of as “normally random.”

    While I do not doubt that some form of valid pRNG engine underpins the game, OP makes a point that is often made here: namely, that it “feels” like there are a lot of very rare results on the disadvantageous
    side     that pop up in game.

    Observation bias? Something else? At some point, it is fruitless to speculate because we will never see the code.

    But I will say that I empathize with OP, as does anyone else who has played this game for a period of time, because it does quite often seem like the odds aren’t in our favor—even when they should be.

    Dr. Zola

    That is a good point. If someone wanted Karnak and Groot, would they get 6 Aegons just so they were disappointed? It seems that the rng never fails to be against you
    Who knows? I don’t see many people complaining about pulling the same top-tier champ over and over but that may be because there’s little to complain about. At the same time, it seems like the subject of a brag post we would see quite a bit if it happened over and over.

    All moot. Whatever pRNG the game uses works this way and it is futile to hope otherwise.

    Dr. Zola
    we had a guy open 5 of the skill/mutant crystals and get 3 nick fury's, you'll just never really see those posts because nobody is gonna go the extra step beyond just sharing it with their alliance or friends and actually post it on here
    Right. I see those sometime in chats, but those don’t tend to rise to the number of times I see posts of stomach-turning pulls. I’ve got an old ally mate who just wants Aegon for Abyss and has gone through around 50 duals (a la Brian Grant) without finding one. Once he pulls Aegon I won’t see any more dual results from him.

    Likely just the tendency to broadcast bad results over good ones. Plus, it is reasonable to assume the forums sample population isn’t representative of the overall player base.

    Still be nice to check the code, though. :p

    Dr. Zola
  • FRITO_ManFRITO_Man Member Posts: 716 ★★★
    Yep my last 10 duals have all been trash like Modok, og guilly and Rhino and a bunch of useless mid tier fodder that I have no use for
  • AdevatiAdevati Member Posts: 439 ★★★
    51 champs in the cosmic/tech dual.

    You want 3/51. So 0.0588 chance.

    At 30 attempts, you have an 83.76% to get at least one of those 3. Or a 16.23% chance at getting none.

    To put that in perspective, it is more rare (12.5%) to flip a coin and get the same side 3 times in a row. We’ve all probably seen such an event happen.

    That said, dual crystals are psychologically worse because you are targeting a specific champ or set of champs and even though the odds are better, the outcome you seek is still rare. It sort of amplifies the disappointment while also diminishing the perception of luck when you do get a great pull.

    I, too, have been opening Tech/Cosmics. I got: Iron Patriot, Groot, Howard the Duck, Green Goblin. Then opened a basic from completing a variant and got Doom. The crystal I expected least from was the home run; go figure.
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 22,017 ★★★★★
    Joker1976 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Joker1976 said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    Duff12475 said:

    Lormif said:

    you expect to open 25-30 crystals and be guaranteed the champ you want out of what 60 champs?

    To be honest, it's not that i EXPECT to get the champ i want, but I do not expect to get the same champ this many times in this way. It deflates motivation 100000%. And what can be done about it? Nothing. I'd love to see the actual game code showing ACTUAL RNG rather than the **** some of get
    How is exactly is it not showing actual RNG? Just curious to know how your experience isn't RNG.
    Sorry bro I actually agree with him that somethings not right,..maybe it’s bugged like everything else in this game,..it’s like it locks into this repetitive thing. Had the same experience with the last featured crystals where I pulled Emma frost like 5 times over,..and same with dual skill / mutant it’s like rouge rouge rouge rouge rouge,..what kinda RNG is that lol,..wouldn’t ever happen for winning lottery #s and that’s RNG. I’m a skeptic would love to see it cause I don’t believe it to be true,...these crystals remind me of the record player where the needle gets stuck and keeps flipping back to the spot it was before,..over and over and over again.
    Do me a favor before you comment anymore about RNG. Look up the definition, come back here, re-read everything you just typed and learn from your mistakes.
    I’ll comment what I want bro,..your not god here,..I know what RNG is,..I also said it is possible the crystals could be bugged,..for them to get on a streak of same champs over and over again,..whether good or bad seems odd to me,..and it seems to happen more often then not in this game. ..opinions : your entitled to yours and I am to my own.
    And you're still wrong. How is it not RNG? Please prove this to me. I'm dying to know how it's bugged.
  • danielmathdanielmath Member Posts: 4,103 ★★★★★
    FineDog said:

    Lormif said:

    you expect to open 25-30 crystals and be guaranteed the champ you want out of what 60 champs?

    You have to admit the odds of getting the same champ 7 times in 30 rolls is pretty low compared to getting the one you want one time. The odds of getting the one you want from 30 crystals is something like 40%, which isn't a guarantee but it's still reasonable.

    The odds of this thing happening basically round to zero. Like, a 0.00000049473% is theoretically possible, but I can understand OP's frustration when it happens.
    The odds of any opening of 30 crystals is basically 0 so no matter what you get, you have achieved astronomical odds
  • LormifLormif Member Posts: 7,369 ★★★★★
    FineDog said:

    Lormif said:

    you expect to open 25-30 crystals and be guaranteed the champ you want out of what 60 champs?

    You have to admit the odds of getting the same champ 7 times in 30 rolls is pretty low compared to getting the one you want one time. The odds of getting the one you want from 30 crystals is something like 40%, which isn't a guarantee but it's still reasonable.

    The odds of this thing happening basically round to zero. Like, a 0.00000049473% is theoretically possible, but I can understand OP's frustration when it happens.
    The odds of getting the one you want is no where near 40%, if you want one the odds are 1.6%, if as this person claims he wanted 2, then it is 3.2%, because odds on each crystal are independent of each other not dependent.
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