Got this guys at last...

LeoZedLeoZed Posts: 272 ★★
Thanks to my son, I got him from the skill mutant one... have been trying for him at any rarity for a long time... have been buying skill mutant 4 stars as well but to no avail... now have him as a 5 star. Does he need awakening?? If yes, I'd he worthy of a generic??

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Comments

  • The_beast123The_beast123 Posts: 867 ★★★
    He's worth all that! Congrats! i got mine and even used a mutant ag on him, not being a uncollected yet, i could only pump him to sig 42 but the way he works is tremendous!!
  • CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 6,988 ★★★★★
    Kill_Grey said:

    Congrats! Man, he's a beast! I've made a whole long post about him somewhere/an appreciation thread about him. That awakened ability is a God send for places like act 6, some monthly EQ and high tier war. He doesn't get a damage bump from it, but the utility almost exclusively comes from it. He can be left at sig 1, not sure what TitoBandito is talking about. I used a mutant gem on mine, and got him to high-ish sig (midpoint kinda), but it's not necessary. I got him so high (sig 112), so that I'm guaranteed to shut down the opponent in as little hits as possible (2 heavies). At sig 112, his AAR is 33.4% per neuro which is pretty much the sweet spot.

    Like I said, he can be left at sig 1 which gives him 25% AAR per neuro. It's pretty easy to keep up 4+ neuros for the complete shutdown, and there's also the heal block that is associated.

    I've got this dude at rank 5, my most used character at the moment, and I wouldn't be where I am without him!

    Here is the original appreciation thread
    https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/226063/archangel-appreciation-thread/p1
  • TrashPanda12TrashPanda12 Posts: 473 ★★
    His awakening help with utility, no extra damage. It is extremely beneficial however. I have a 5/65 awakened one and I'd say he's worth the generic AG. Ideally he should be at sig 120, but that's not necessary
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,812 ★★★★★
    He's the best champ in the game for a lot of fights. Terrible for other fights but the good more than makes up for that. At one time I might've said class gem but not generic, but tbh with the availability of class gems increasing and 6*s becoming more relevant, 5* generics aren't as valuable as they used to be. I'm sitting on 3 and have class gems for several classes so I don't really have any plans for my generics. I use my R5 AA all the time and I'd say use a generic and don't look back.
  • ABOMBABOMB Posts: 564 ★★★
    Awesome broham! Just pulled him outta a basic 5* crystal today too..can't wait to start ranking him up!
  • Fluffy_pawsFluffy_paws Posts: 1,985 ★★★★★
    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.
  • Fluffy_pawsFluffy_paws Posts: 1,985 ★★★★★
    Kill_Grey said:

    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.

    Sis, are you sure sig 80 is the spot? Because I thought it was at the level where each neuro gives at least 33.34% AAR 🤔


    You're probably right. I need to check auntm.ai again on how his sig scales, seems I've forgotten haha.
    I took mine to sig 200, I know thats 40%.
    Thanks for keeping me right👍
  • LeoZedLeoZed Posts: 272 ★★
    Thanks guys... from what I can see parry heavy is the way to go right
  • Fluffy_pawsFluffy_paws Posts: 1,985 ★★★★★
    Kill_Grey said:


    Kill_Grey said:

    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.

    Sis, are you sure sig 80 is the spot? Because I thought it was at the level where each neuro gives at least 33.34% AAR 🤔


    You're probably right. I need to check auntm.ai again on how his sig scales, seems I've forgotten haha.
    I took mine to sig 200, I know thats 40%.
    Thanks for keeping me right👍


    @Fluffy_paws here's mine's description. I recall sig 111 providing 33.25% per neuro, which, when multiplied by 3, yields 99.75% as the resultant AAR for having 3 of the effects active at once (I believe the scaling is linear from sig 1 to 200 similar to how Ghost's sig functions). I decided to put in an extra stone because that 0.25% ability accuracy trigger that a normal opponent with typical "base ability accuracy" of 100% can still access can mean bad news.

    At this particular sig of level 112, 3 neuros lead to 100.2% AAR which is above the mark, and is truly enough to "shut down" just about any and all opponents to which it can take effect. and it is also achievable with a minimum of 2 heavies, which is pretty much the ideal condition one would be looking for.
    Thanks! I'll remember this. Hopefully. I should have paid more attention to how his sig scaled while I was still feeding him stones
  • Fluffy_pawsFluffy_paws Posts: 1,985 ★★★★★
    Kill_Grey said:

    Kill_Grey said:


    Kill_Grey said:

    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.

    Sis, are you sure sig 80 is the spot? Because I thought it was at the level where each neuro gives at least 33.34% AAR 🤔


    You're probably right. I need to check auntm.ai again on how his sig scales, seems I've forgotten haha.
    I took mine to sig 200, I know thats 40%.
    Thanks for keeping me right👍


    @Fluffy_paws here's mine's description. I recall sig 111 providing 33.25% per neuro, which, when multiplied by 3, yields 99.75% as the resultant AAR for having 3 of the effects active at once (I believe the scaling is linear from sig 1 to 200 similar to how Ghost's sig functions). I decided to put in an extra stone because that 0.25% ability accuracy trigger that a normal opponent with typical "base ability accuracy" of 100% can still access can mean bad news.

    At this particular sig of level 112, 3 neuros lead to 100.2% AAR which is above the mark, and is truly enough to "shut down" just about any and all opponents to which it can take effect. and it is also achievable with a minimum of 2 heavies, which is pretty much the ideal condition one would be looking for.
    Thanks! I'll remember this. Hopefully. I should have paid more attention to how his sig scaled while I was still feeding him stones
    For whenever that 6* version comes around 😉
    Ah I wish. I think I'm gonna take the risk and go for a featured 6*, cyber Monday deals dependant.
    Already trying to prepare myself, because anyone but AA will lead to immediate disappointment.
  • Kill_Grey said:


    Kill_Grey said:

    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.

    Sis, are you sure sig 80 is the spot? Because I thought it was at the level where each neuro gives at least 33.34% AAR 🤔


    You're probably right. I need to check auntm.ai again on how his sig scales, seems I've forgotten haha.
    I took mine to sig 200, I know thats 40%.
    Thanks for keeping me right👍


    @Fluffy_paws here's mine's description. I recall sig 111 providing 33.25% per neuro, which, when multiplied by 3, yields 99.75% as the resultant AAR for having 3 of the effects active at once (I believe the scaling is linear from sig 1 to 200 similar to how Ghost's sig functions). I decided to put in an extra stone because that 0.25% ability accuracy trigger that a normal opponent with typical "base ability accuracy" of 100% can still access can mean bad news.

    At this particular sig of level 112, 3 neuros lead to 100.2% AAR which is above the mark, and is truly enough to "shut down" just about any and all opponents to which it can take effect. and it is also achievable with a minimum of 2 heavies, which is pretty much the ideal condition one would be looking for.
    The problem with this line of thinking is that getting 3 neurotoxins on the target is itself a series of non guaranteed events. This means in a real fight situation, if you're trying to prevent an effect, say arc overload, you need to perform actions to get 3 neurotoxins, and if you have a 75% chance of getting those 3 neurotoxins, at sig 112 you have a 100% * 75% chance of stopping arc overload. At sig 111 you have a 99.75% * 75% of stopping arc overload.

    The whole "system" needs to be considered, and now you're comparing 75% to 74.8% and it doesn't create a threshold signature level.

    I have a very detailed post on reddit going into the math of how there's no sig level threshold for Archangel, it's simply an inflection point in the curve.

    People like to be given straight forward answers to questions, but the realities are much more complicated. The questions being asked are usually simplifications as well, since the idea behind the question is to help determine an action - should you put more sig stones in Archangel, it's not about getting to a sweet spot, it's about what else you would do with those sig stones and weighing the value (or potential value if it's "save them"). All of that is also predicated on how much you use him.
  • Fluffy_pawsFluffy_paws Posts: 1,985 ★★★★★
    @Kill_Grey did another one of your comments go to approval lol says you mentioned me in a comment ( assume you quoted above) but don't see it
  • GardenerGardener Posts: 1,582 ★★★
    Definatley worth a generic
  • Moot4LifeMoot4Life Posts: 2,132 ★★★★

    @Kill_Grey did another one of your comments go to approval lol says you mentioned me in a comment ( assume you quoted above) but don't see it

    Oh yeah, my comment must have gone into approval. I said that RichardSlugberg had a good point.
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,843 ★★★★★

    Kill_Grey said:


    Kill_Grey said:

    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.

    Sis, are you sure sig 80 is the spot? Because I thought it was at the level where each neuro gives at least 33.34% AAR 🤔


    You're probably right. I need to check auntm.ai again on how his sig scales, seems I've forgotten haha.
    I took mine to sig 200, I know thats 40%.
    Thanks for keeping me right👍


    @Fluffy_paws here's mine's description. I recall sig 111 providing 33.25% per neuro, which, when multiplied by 3, yields 99.75% as the resultant AAR for having 3 of the effects active at once (I believe the scaling is linear from sig 1 to 200 similar to how Ghost's sig functions). I decided to put in an extra stone because that 0.25% ability accuracy trigger that a normal opponent with typical "base ability accuracy" of 100% can still access can mean bad news.

    At this particular sig of level 112, 3 neuros lead to 100.2% AAR which is above the mark, and is truly enough to "shut down" just about any and all opponents to which it can take effect. and it is also achievable with a minimum of 2 heavies, which is pretty much the ideal condition one would be looking for.
    The problem with this line of thinking is that getting 3 neurotoxins on the target is itself a series of non guaranteed events. This means in a real fight situation, if you're trying to prevent an effect, say arc overload, you need to perform actions to get 3 neurotoxins, and if you have a 75% chance of getting those 3 neurotoxins, at sig 112 you have a 100% * 75% chance of stopping arc overload. At sig 111 you have a 99.75% * 75% of stopping arc overload.

    The whole "system" needs to be considered, and now you're comparing 75% to 74.8% and it doesn't create a threshold signature level.

    I have a very detailed post on reddit going into the math of how there's no sig level threshold for Archangel, it's simply an inflection point in the curve.

    People like to be given straight forward answers to questions, but the realities are much more complicated. The questions being asked are usually simplifications as well, since the idea behind the question is to help determine an action - should you put more sig stones in Archangel, it's not about getting to a sweet spot, it's about what else you would do with those sig stones and weighing the value (or potential value if it's "save them"). All of that is also predicated on how much you use him.
    You're trying to sound all insightful, but the fact of the matter is that nobody gets AA to sig 112 to guarantee 100% AAR at all times, cause it ain't gonna happen. People get AA to sig 112 so they know the opponent's abilities won't activate when you do have 3 neuros up.
  • EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,843 ★★★★★

    Etjama said:

    Kill_Grey said:


    Kill_Grey said:

    Without his sig, he has all his damage but he can't disable annoying abilities and nodes.
    He does not need high sig. Sig 80 is considered his optimal bc its 100% at 3 neuros. I don't know why bc neuros aren't very hard to stack. If you want a bit of a read, the first thread on my profile is my rambly write up on him, it might give you an idea of what his sig can do. And just some general info.

    I'd give him a generic in a heartbeat but I'm biased. Depends where you are in the game I guess. Its hard to tell from level now since no-one seems to do act 4 100% anymore lol.

    Sis, are you sure sig 80 is the spot? Because I thought it was at the level where each neuro gives at least 33.34% AAR 🤔


    You're probably right. I need to check auntm.ai again on how his sig scales, seems I've forgotten haha.
    I took mine to sig 200, I know thats 40%.
    Thanks for keeping me right👍


    @Fluffy_paws here's mine's description. I recall sig 111 providing 33.25% per neuro, which, when multiplied by 3, yields 99.75% as the resultant AAR for having 3 of the effects active at once (I believe the scaling is linear from sig 1 to 200 similar to how Ghost's sig functions). I decided to put in an extra stone because that 0.25% ability accuracy trigger that a normal opponent with typical "base ability accuracy" of 100% can still access can mean bad news.

    At this particular sig of level 112, 3 neuros lead to 100.2% AAR which is above the mark, and is truly enough to "shut down" just about any and all opponents to which it can take effect. and it is also achievable with a minimum of 2 heavies, which is pretty much the ideal condition one would be looking for.
    The problem with this line of thinking is that getting 3 neurotoxins on the target is itself a series of non guaranteed events. This means in a real fight situation, if you're trying to prevent an effect, say arc overload, you need to perform actions to get 3 neurotoxins, and if you have a 75% chance of getting those 3 neurotoxins, at sig 112 you have a 100% * 75% chance of stopping arc overload. At sig 111 you have a 99.75% * 75% of stopping arc overload.

    The whole "system" needs to be considered, and now you're comparing 75% to 74.8% and it doesn't create a threshold signature level.

    I have a very detailed post on reddit going into the math of how there's no sig level threshold for Archangel, it's simply an inflection point in the curve.

    People like to be given straight forward answers to questions, but the realities are much more complicated. The questions being asked are usually simplifications as well, since the idea behind the question is to help determine an action - should you put more sig stones in Archangel, it's not about getting to a sweet spot, it's about what else you would do with those sig stones and weighing the value (or potential value if it's "save them"). All of that is also predicated on how much you use him.
    You're trying to sound all insightful, but the fact of the matter is that nobody gets AA to sig 112 to guarantee 100% AAR at all times, cause it ain't gonna happen. People get AA to sig 112 so they know the opponent's abilities won't activate when you do have 3 neuros up.
    This doesn't change behavior though. You're not looking at the number of neurotoxins that are up and saying "I've reached 3, time to stop parry heavying". If you're comparing the potential outcome of two fights, one where you had 111 sig and another where you had 112 sig, it's not a 99%->100% difference, it's 74->75% difference. You're ignoring the odds required to get to that point where you do have 3 neuros up - why would you stop at 112 when there are instances when you have 2 neuros up ... if you can ignore circumstances that don't fit your narrative, why wouldn't you ignore circumstances and just assume 4 neurotoxins up?

    In a real fight in the game there is a gradient of benefit to AA's sig that rises as it reaches 112 and continues to rise beyond 112, there's no threshold. There might be a fuzzy blanket feeling to reaching 112 sig, but it's not real, there's an inflection point where the slope of the benefit changes, but it shouldn't change your behavior when it comes to putting sig stones in AA.

    As for trying to come off as insightful ... yes, why would that be an insult? Are you trying to come off as intentionally ignoring the realities?
    Lol, I know how it works. No need to explain again. Of course I'm not going to stop trying to get Neurotoxins when I'm at 3, but if your goal is 100% AAR and nothing else, there's absolutely no point in taking him past sig 112. It's as simple as that. Not everyone wants as much AAR as you can get throughout a fight, a lot of people just want to know that if I'm at this point, they won't be activating any abilities. And sure, a low sig will get you there with 4 Neurotoxins, but 3 is easier to get and maintain. Sig 200 doesn't guarantee it at 2 Neuros, so a lot of people will stop at sig 112.

    And saying you're trying to sound Insightful wasn't an insult, just an observation. You already confirmed that I was correct.
  • SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 15,211 ★★★★★
    edited November 2020
    why is it all the people with kids have the best luck
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