6* R2->R3 PI Decrease

Andrewl89

Can someone help me understand why PI would decrease after a rank up. BWCV went from 15,210 max R2 to 14,910 R3 L1?

Comments

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A_NAZ

She went from level 35 to level 1.

Obviously joking and I have no idea why really

Colonaut123

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.

DNA3000

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.

That can't be it, because your critical rating is not dependent on your challenge rating. It is affected by your opponent's challenge rating, but not your own. That's why when you look at your champions' stats, it actually says at the bottom that the percentage values presume facing a CR100 opponent.

Colonaut123

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.
That can't be it, because your critical rating is not dependent on your challenge rating. It is affected by your opponent's challenge rating, but not your own. That's why when you look at your champions' stats, it actually says at the bottom that the percentage values presume facing a CR100 opponent.

When you rank-up, the critical rating goes up proportionally to your challenge rating. If it didn't, you would progressively decrease your crit chance when facing one of similar challenger rating. The masteries grant crit rating additive, but do not increase when you rank-up. As you rank-up, the contribution of it to the crit chance decreases, so does your PI. As the critical rating of 2* are so low, the masteries inflate the PI. That's the only logical explanation.

Colonaut123

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.
That can't be it, because your critical rating is not dependent on your challenge rating. It is affected by your opponent's challenge rating, but not your own. That's why when you look at your champions' stats, it actually says at the bottom that the percentage values presume facing a CR100 opponent.
When you rank-up, the critical rating goes up proportionally to your challenge rating. If it didn't, you would progressively decrease your crit chance when facing one of similar challenger rating. The masteries grant crit rating additive, but do not increase when you rank-up. As you rank-up, the contribution of it to the crit chance decreases, so does your PI. As the critical rating of 2* are so low, the masteries inflate the PI. That's the only logical explanation.

I know @DNA3000 likes maths so:

A R2 6* BWCV has a base critical rating of 738. Against an opponent with a challenger rating as herself (120), she has a crit chance of 26%.

A R3 6* BWCV has a base critical rating of 756. Against an opponent with a challenger rating as herself (130), she has a crit chance of 26%, exactly the same.

The precision masteries gives her maximum 450 extra critical hit rating. For the R2 6*, the crit chance goes to 36.1%, ceteris paribus. For the R3 6*, the crit chance decreases to 35.9%, ceteris paribus. As both crit chance and crit damage multiplier decreases, so does your PI.

Mauled

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Ghostboytjie

Woooah First time someone Does something to prove DNA Wrong.

DNA is Neva Wrong!

#DNA ClanUnite

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Sarvanga1_

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.
That can't be it, because your critical rating is not dependent on your challenge rating. It is affected by your opponent's challenge rating, but not your own. That's why when you look at your champions' stats, it actually says at the bottom that the percentage values presume facing a CR100 opponent.
When you rank-up, the critical rating goes up proportionally to your challenge rating. If it didn't, you would progressively decrease your crit chance when facing one of similar challenger rating. The masteries grant crit rating additive, but do not increase when you rank-up. As you rank-up, the contribution of it to the crit chance decreases, so does your PI. As the critical rating of 2* are so low, the masteries inflate the PI. That's the only logical explanation.
I know @DNA3000 likes maths so:

A R2 6* BWCV has a base critical rating of 738. Against an opponent with a challenger rating as herself (120), she has a crit chance of 26%.

A R3 6* BWCV has a base critical rating of 756. Against an opponent with a challenger rating as herself (130), she has a crit chance of 26%, exactly the same.

The precision masteries gives her maximum 450 extra critical hit rating. For the R2 6*, the crit chance goes to 36.1%, ceteris paribus. For the R3 6*, the crit chance decreases to 35.9%, ceteris paribus. As both crit chance and crit damage multiplier decreases, so does your PI.

This is pretty good actually. The estimate explains it satisfactorily.

Dr_Z01dberg

There have been a few threads on this and @A_NAZ has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If I remember rightly Miike confirmed that it’s due to the scaling of the levels and bascially you’ve put the champ back to level 1 by ranking up.

You obviously have another 34 levels to go so it will go higher than it was but that’s the way that champs scale so they are not crazily OP once they are ranked up/levelled up at the next rank and instead they increase at a rate that is proportional

A_NAZ

She went from level 35 to level 1.

Obviously joking and I have no idea why really
This guy is actually correct.

I knew it all along

I didn’t

A_NAZ

There have been a few threads on this and @A_NAZ has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If I remember rightly Miike confirmed that it’s due to the scaling of the levels and bascially you’ve put the champ back to level 1 by ranking up.

You obviously have another 34 levels to go so it will go higher than it was but that’s the way that champs scale so they are not crazily OP once they are ranked up/levelled up at the next rank and instead they increase at a rate that is proportional

Yep me and the Miike lad are on the same wavelength

We’re not

Dr_Z01dberg

There have been a few threads on this and @A_NAZ has pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If I remember rightly Miike confirmed that it’s due to the scaling of the levels and bascially you’ve put the champ back to level 1 by ranking up.

You obviously have another 34 levels to go so it will go higher than it was but that’s the way that champs scale so they are not crazily OP once they are ranked up/levelled up at the next rank and instead they increase at a rate that is proportional
Yep me and the Miike lad are on the same wavelength

We’re not

Own up, your really Miike aren’t you?!!

Andrewl89

Great discussion. Thanks community. And not gonna lie, felt it was an officially recognized post when @DNA3000 commented.

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Tiger360

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.
That can't be it, because your critical rating is not dependent on your challenge rating. It is affected by your opponent's challenge rating, but not your own. That's why when you look at your champions' stats, it actually says at the bottom that the percentage values presume facing a CR100 opponent.
When you rank-up, the critical rating goes up proportionally to your challenge rating. If it didn't, you would progressively decrease your crit chance when facing one of similar challenger rating. The masteries grant crit rating additive, but do not increase when you rank-up. As you rank-up, the contribution of it to the crit chance decreases, so does your PI. As the critical rating of 2* are so low, the masteries inflate the PI. That's the only logical explanation.
I know @DNA3000 likes maths so:

A R2 6* BWCV has a base critical rating of 738. Against an opponent with a challenger rating as herself (120), she has a crit chance of 26%.

A R3 6* BWCV has a base critical rating of 756. Against an opponent with a challenger rating as herself (130), she has a crit chance of 26%, exactly the same.

The precision masteries gives her maximum 450 extra critical hit rating. For the R2 6*, the crit chance goes to 36.1%, ceteris paribus. For the R3 6*, the crit chance decreases to 35.9%, ceteris paribus. As both crit chance and crit damage multiplier decreases, so does your PI.

Reed Richards is that you?

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DNA3000

It has to do with the precision and cruelty masteries. The critical rating depends on the challenge rating. When you rank-up, your critical rating increases but the mastery bonus stays the same. So relatively, it's potency decreases so you lose PI. Reversely, the PI of 2* are heavily inflated because they have a low challenge rating.
That can't be it, because your critical rating is not dependent on your challenge rating. It is affected by your opponent's challenge rating, but not your own. That's why when you look at your champions' stats, it actually says at the bottom that the percentage values presume facing a CR100 opponent.
When you rank-up, the critical rating goes up proportionally to your challenge rating. If it didn't, you would progressively decrease your crit chance when facing one of similar challenger rating. The masteries grant crit rating additive, but do not increase when you rank-up. As you rank-up, the contribution of it to the crit chance decreases, so does your PI. As the critical rating of 2* are so low, the masteries inflate the PI. That's the only logical explanation.

Critical rating does go up with rank: when I said it wasn't affected by challenge rating I meant it literally is not affected by CR: the devs could change the challenge rating of any champion by any amount and it would not affect critical rating.

But let's look at the core idea, that mastery dilution is responsible for the PI decrease. If that were the case, we'd expect to see it everywhere. So I randomly ranked up a champ, in this case 4* Iron Fist, from rank 3 to rank 4. When I ranked him from rank 3 30/30 to rank 4 1/40 his PI increased from 3034 to 3041. At the moment I have one point in pierce and five i precision, so my mastery bonus for critical rating is 450. Iron Fist's critical rating increased from 854 to 877. If we calculate his equal-CR critical rating with masteries it went from 40.7% to 40.5%. This is a similar decrease as calculated for 6* BWCV, so we'd expect to see a similar PI decrease, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

We can also look at an interesting extreme corner case. Corvus has zero base critical rating, so his critical rating doesn't go up with rank ups. I can rank up my 4* Corvus from rank 3 to rank 4. Of course his critical rating is zero in both cases, and his PI goes up from 3647 to 3653 when he goes from 3/30 to 4/1. That seems to be a similar PI increase as Iron Fist, so it does seem like critical rating dilution which would be proportionately different for Corvus than Iron Fist, isn't having a noticeable impact.

It is possible that the math between rank 2 and rank 3 for 6* champs is different, and this mastery dilution only kicks in there for some wonky reason (6* rank 2->3 scales differently than any other similar rank up jump), but the straight forward version of the idea doesn't seem to be visible.

DNA3000

*DNA3000 has left the chat*
Biding time

I don't usually read the forums on weekends. If I am posting on a weekend, it is either that I'm working and sitting in front of my computer, or I've been sent to the forums by someone messaging me.

CoatHang3r

Wolverine used to be the focus of questions like these. Iirc it was explained that his health pool actually decreased when ranked up to account for scaling with his healing or something like that. BWCV has one of the highest attack ratings so I wouldn’t be surprised if her attack rating actually went down between the rank up or something similar.

Here’s the Wolverine explanation. Old forum quote format though.

Hey There!

Wolverine and X-23 both do this. After ranking up, they lose a small amount of theirPI, but that's easily gained back when you level up further. This is not a bug.

TheSpicyKnight wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Hey There!

Wolverine and X-23 both do this. After ranking up, they lose a small amount of theirPI, but that's easily gained back when you level up further. This is not a bug.

How does something like this happen?

This is the result of how their Health Curves work. Both of them have a fairly low amount of Health to compensate for their potential huge Regeneration abilities. Each Rank has its own curve, but for these two in particular, their health curve for each starts a little lower than than where it ended.

It was either this, or lower it all throughout, but I personally kind of like having them be a little bit more powerful while I get the Cats I need to take them up a Rank.

DNA3000

Wolverine used to be the focus of questions like these. Iirc it was explained that his health pool actually decreased when ranked up to account for scaling with his healing or something like that. BWCV has one of the highest attack ratings so I wouldn’t be surprised if her attack rating actually went down between the rank up or something similar.

I tested ranking up my (4*) BWCV from 4/40 to 5/1 and her attack remained the same (as did her health). So unless this scales differently at higher rarities (which is possible) she doesn't seem to be one of the champs with the disjoint attack and/or health curves.

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Ghostboytjie

ting ting ting DNA with a comeback @Amazing_Demon05

AlexAvalon

These are my fav kinds of threads where I find out things about how the game works that I didn’t already know