Falcon Locked On interaction

AceOfDiamond

Why is this NC evading when locked on? Does it have something to do with the node? Shouldn't locked on shutdown evade completely.

JueVioleGrace

Maybe it has something to do with class disadvantage. Not too familiar with Falcon.

AceOfDiamond

Class disadvantage just makes locked on last 20% shorter against mutants. Theoretically it should still shut down evade completely as it reduces defensive ability accuracy by 100%.

Gamer

AceOfDiamond said:

Class disadvantage just makes locked on last 20% shorter against mutants. Theoretically it should still shut down evade completely as it reduces defensive ability accuracy by 100%.

Read the enchanted node that why he stil can evade

Silver_Goose

DAA is reduced by 100%, then Enhanced Abilities is applied afterwards. So he gets 20% DAA.

AceOfDiamond

This is a path in variant 4.2.2.

Colinwhitworth69

I don't think it shuts down evade. It reduces defensive AA. Is NC evading all the time or just sometimes when Falcon is locked on?

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Enhanced abilities. Also, NC gets even more enhanced evade potency via his sp1

AceOfDiamond

Colinwhitworth69 said:

I don't think it shuts down evade. It reduces defensive AA. Is NC evading all the time or just sometimes when Falcon is locked on?

He is evading a lot less. Much much less. But in my opinion he should not at all since evade is infact a defensive ability.

BitterSteel

Its because of the enhanced ability. The way it works is falcon minuses 100% of the chance to evade off, NC normally has 22% chance to evade, so falcon takes 22% off (100% of 22), but with enhanced ability NC has an extra 4.4% to evade so it ends up taking 22% off the 26.4% chance

Crcrcrc

NC on this node has 120% evade chance. Falcon reduces it by 100%. He is left with a 20% chance

AceOfDiamond

Also NC has a maximum 70% chance to evade against physical attacks after doing a special one.

AceOfDiamond

I get it now. It is because of that node which enhances all of his separated innate evade abilities by 20%. So it becomes 70+40 that he gets due to node. So a 110% chance to evade. Also he did only evade after sp1. This explains why.

Kerneas

AceOfDiamond said:

Also NC has a maximum 70% chance to evade against physical attacks after doing a special one.

Yes, but 70% chance when reduced by 100% is 0% chance, not -30% (that'd be called flat 100% I believe).

So the chance w node is 84%, feom which Falcon removes only the 70%, and 14% remains

AceOfDiamond

This also explains why og spidey did not evade at all with the same node.

Kerneas

AceOfDiamond said:

This also explains why og spidey did not evade at all with the same node.

I have to say that the Spider-man puzzles me. He still should have 20% of his original evade potency left. My only explanation is, that the remaining 5% evade chance simply did not trigger, I dont have any other explanation for that

DNA3000

Kerneas said:

AceOfDiamond said:

This also explains why og spidey did not evade at all with the same node.

I have to say that the Spider-man puzzles me. He still should have 20% of his original evade potency left. My only explanation is, that the remaining 5% evade chance simply did not trigger, I dont have any other explanation for that

"Ability Accuracy" is an actual stat, think of it like attack or critical rating. For discussion purposes (the technical details are a bit different) think of it as a base 100%. Nightcrawler has an evade ability that gives him a 22% chance to evade. In fact, the actual chance to activate that ability is the ability's intrinsic ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy stat. By default that's 100%, so the evade chance is 22% x 100% = 22%.

When Falcon locks on, his attacks reduce ability accuracy by 100%. That doesn't touch Nightcrawler's evade ability, it reduces Nightcrawler's ability accuracy stat. So NC goes from 100% AA to 100%-100% = 0% AA (for defensive abilities, which I'm simplifying here for discussion purposes). This should completely shut down his evade, because 22% x 0% = 0%. However, the node NC sits on here has a +20% ability accuracy buff. Now, NC's ability accuracy when Falcon attacks is 100% + 20% - 100% = 20%. His chance to Evade is now 22% x 20% = 4.4%. Low, but not zero.

On top of that, NC's chance to evade attacks increases by 15% when attacks deal physical damage, which I believe (but I'm not 100% certain) means his evade ability accuracy is 37%. Which would make his actual chance to evade here now 37% x 20% = 7.4%.

Finally, after NC uses SP1 his chance to evade increases by 33%. Again, I'm not absolutely certain about this one but I believe this implies his evade ability accuracy increases to 22% + 15% + 37% = 74% against physical attacks after SP1. This means his chance to activate an evade in this situation would now be 74% x 20% = 14.8%.

There's actually been a loading screen message that explains (or at least mentions) how ability accuracy works going back years, but I suspect no one reads those. Also, if you don't believe loading screens, Longshot's design also highlights how ability accuracy works. He doesn't have 100% base ability accuracy, he has 300% base ability accuracy. So when he has, say, a 51% chance to gain Good Karma, that's actually an intrinsic 17% chance to gain Good Karma multiplied by his base 300% ability accuracy to get 51% (that's almost certainly why this chance appears to be a weird number: it isn't weird when you consider Longshot's base 300% AA). If you debuff Longshot's AA by -100%, it doesn't shut him down, it just reduces his AA stat from 300% to 200%, and his chance to gain Good Karma would drop from 51% to 34%. It is almost as if Longshot "resists" ability accuracy debuffs, which was the intent of his design.

DNA3000

HI_guys said:

Hey @DNA3000 do you think defensive aar actually exists as a single specific game mechanic?

The case of Archangel being affected is weird because he is only affected by purely DAAR or OAAR. He isn't affected by Black Widow because for some reason her abilties never state defesnsive aar. It just says all abilties

That's a good question. Can you elaborate on Archangel being affected by DAAR and OAAR specifically? This is something I don't recall and would like to research further.

Daddrieda

DNA3000 said:

Kerneas said:

AceOfDiamond said:

This also explains why og spidey did not evade at all with the same node.

I have to say that the Spider-man puzzles me. He still should have 20% of his original evade potency left. My only explanation is, that the remaining 5% evade chance simply did not trigger, I dont have any other explanation for that

"Ability Accuracy" is an actual stat, think of it like attack or critical rating. For discussion purposes (the technical details are a bit different) think of it as a base 100%. Nightcrawler has an evade ability that gives him a 22% chance to evade. In fact, the actual chance to activate that ability is the ability's intrinsic ability accuracy multiplied by the champion's ability accuracy stat. By default that's 100%, so the evade chance is 22% x 100% = 22%.

When Falcon locks on, his attacks reduce ability accuracy by 100%. That doesn't touch Nightcrawler's evade ability, it reduces Nightcrawler's ability accuracy stat. So NC goes from 100% AA to 100%-100% = 0% AA (for defensive abilities, which I'm simplifying here for discussion purposes). This should completely shut down his evade, because 22% x 0% = 0%. However, the node NC sits on here has a +20% ability accuracy buff. Now, NC's ability accuracy when Falcon attacks is 100% + 20% - 100% = 20%. His chance to Evade is now 22% x 20% = 4.4%. Low, but not zero.

On top of that, NC's chance to evade attacks increases by 15% when attacks deal physical damage, which I believe (but I'm not 100% certain) means his evade ability accuracy is 37%. Which would make his actual chance to evade here now 37% x 20% = 7.4%.

Finally, after NC uses SP1 his chance to evade increases by 33%. Again, I'm not absolutely certain about this one but I believe this implies his evade ability accuracy increases to 22% + 15% + 37% = 74% against physical attacks after SP1. This means his chance to activate an evade in this situation would now be 74% x 20% = 14.8%.

There's actually been a loading screen message that explains (or at least mentions) how ability accuracy works going back years, but I suspect no one reads those. Also, if you don't believe loading screens, Longshot's design also highlights how ability accuracy works. He doesn't have 100% base ability accuracy, he has 300% base ability accuracy. So when he has, say, a 51% chance to gain Good Karma, that's actually an intrinsic 17% chance to gain Good Karma multiplied by his base 300% ability accuracy to get 51% (that's almost certainly why this chance appears to be a weird number: it isn't weird when you consider Longshot's base 300% AA). If you debuff Longshot's AA by -100%, it doesn't shut him down, it just reduces his AA stat from 300% to 200%, and his chance to gain Good Karma would drop from 51% to 34%. It is almost as if Longshot "resists" ability accuracy debuffs, which was the intent of his design.

Man.... it’s always a long read with you 😂

DNA3000

HI_guys said:

DNA3000 said:

HI_guys said:

Hey @DNA3000 do you think defensive aar actually exists as a single specific game mechanic?

The case of Archangel being affected is weird because he is only affected by purely DAAR or OAAR. He isn't affected by Black Widow because for some reason her abilties never state defesnsive aar. It just says all abilties

That's a good question. Can you elaborate on Archangel being affected by DAAR and OAAR specifically? This is something I don't recall and would like to research further.

Like specifically DAAR nodes and debuffs affect archangel and cause his parry to fail. Hot and bothered, Disorient, Ronin stance, etc.

Also Glancing which affects Offensive abilties cause his bleeds and poisons to fail.

But simple AAR like Magneto passive and concussion does not affect him.

I cannot say with certainty, but this is my best guess as to what's happening here. First, AA says he is immune to AAR from opponent abilities. Nodes aren't opponent abilities. Nodes *act* on certain technical levels as if they were opponent abilities - for example, many nodes are themselves vulnerable to AAR when applied to the opponent. But while they act like ducks, they are not ducks. Archangel "knows" those abilities are not opponent abilities, so he isn't immune to them. There are other places in the game where the game will say that X acts like Y for a limited set of purposes, but X isn't actually identical to Y. For example Human Torch's Nova Flames are stated to behave like Incinerate debuffs for the purposes of his own abilities, but they aren't actually treated as incinerate debuffs in any other respect.

So node effects might act like the opponent has and uses those effects as its own abilities for the purposes of discussing how they work in general, but when it comes to something like Archangel that very specifically cares if something is explicitly an opponent ability or not, node effects are not.

Glancing is odd, and it could be a number of different things going on. First: the description is wrong. Glancing just plain turns off offensive abilities but its text claims it reduces offensive ability accuracy by (the number) 100%. I just did a quick and dirty test with Longshot, and I don't think this theory is correct as Longshot can apply bad karma on a glanced hit. It could be that glancing isn't "an ability" for the purposes of AA. Not everything is: for example critical hits are not an ability: even if you reduce ability accuracy to zero a champion can still crit, because the capability of landing a critical hit isn't an "ability" in the technical sense. Maybe Pym Gas is an ability, but glancing isn't an ability effect as the game engine sees it. This is possible, but I can't off the top of my head think of a way to test for this possibility.

Another possibility is that glancing actually is the rare effect that affects an ability's ability accuracy directly. Maybe glancing is implemented in such a way as it directly reduces the ability accuracy of Archangel's bleeds. AA's immunity to AAR might be specifically implemented in such a way to make AA's ability accuracy stat immune to debuffs from opponent abilities but not AA's actual bleed ability. Whether this is a bug, or violates the intent of AA's design, is a debatable point. You could make the case if this theory is true, this is an unintentional bug.