Options

If utility>damage, then is Bishop>Domino?

KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

Bishop has energy resistance, can REGENERATE, can purify bleed debuffs (god vs caltrops and biohazard), can gain extra power, he can go stun immune (OP vs encroaching stun), unblockable specials (OP vs block opponents like red skull), does energy damage (god vs electro and iceman), and has thick prestige (83rd percentile almost as good as doom).

domino has RNG based damage and no utility

the choice is clear, save your mutant items for bishop (the god)

hope this helps and have a great weekend
«1

Comments

  • Options
    CrcrcrcCrcrcrc Posts: 7,942 ★★★★★
    It’s pretty obvious that Bishop is superior to Domino. Domino is garbage in all late-game content.
  • Options
    Hera1d_of_Ga1actusHera1d_of_Ga1actus Posts: 2,439 ★★★★★
    Honestly it makes sense, Domino only has a CHANCE to purify bleeds. The homie Bishop will do that in exchange for a parry and holding block. Only second to Cable, I’d say Bishop is the best mutant in the game
  • Options
    KerneasKerneas Posts: 3,755 ★★★★★
    Yes, even as a Domino lover I admit Bishop has greater utility.

    So, if you have enough skill to not make a mistake and enough stamina to endure the ever-so-looooong fights with Bishop, why not
  • Options
    QacobQacob Posts: 2,253 ★★★★★
    Do I dare say this, but, bishop > cable??


    DUN DUN DUUNNNNN
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    edited January 2021

    I know this is satire (at least I hope), because what Bishop can do in 50 hits Domino can do in 20 with no ramp up.

    It doesn’t matter if you have all the utility in the world if you can quite literally nuke down the enemies health before any danger comes up. In RoL I did 78k damage before he reached 1 bar of power.

    I quit the fight as soon as he reached a bar of power and the incinerate expired.

    I can’t tell you how many times there has been a tough Cav or UC (when my account was smaller) boss that I took Hype or G2099 and put them down before the nodes had a chance to screw with me.

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    No. I agree Domino is better than Bishop but Utility is much more important. It's why Quake is the best champ in the game, it's not CGR. You may be able to burst down an EQ boss, but I'd love to see you use Domino on any restrictive paths in Act 6.
  • Options
    SpideyFunkoSpideyFunko Posts: 21,828 ★★★★★
    YoMoves said:

    AMATEURS.

    CHARLATANS.

    You speak of the glory of Bishop, but how many of you truly believe?

    I’d dare say none.



    I ranked him the week he came out.

    Now begone! And don’t come disrespecting his legacy again until you’ve r3’d your sig 200 6*. HEATHENS!

    as I also recall...

    people do desperate thing when they need prestige and you aren’t exactly the happiest camper about that rankup
  • Options
    Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 4,139 ★★★★★
    edited January 2021
    Etjama said:

    I know this is satire (at least I hope), because what Bishop can do in 50 hits Domino can do in 20 with no ramp up.

    It doesn’t matter if you have all the utility in the world if you can quite literally nuke down the enemies health before any danger comes up. In RoL I did 78k damage before he reached 1 bar of power.

    I quit the fight as soon as he reached a bar of power and the incinerate expired.

    I can’t tell you how many times there has been a tough Cav or UC (when my account was smaller) boss that I took Hype or G2099 and put them down before the nodes had a chance to screw with me.

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    No. I agree Domino is better than Bishop but Utility is much more important. It's why Quake is the best champ in the game, it's not CGR. You may be able to burst down an EQ boss, but I'd love to see you use Domino on any restrictive paths in Act 6.
    It depends on the champs bro. Also domino can be used on pull,selective timestream, stunning reflection, got a light and even more nodes.
  • Options
    Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 4,139 ★★★★★
    Hilldar said:

    You guys keep hating on Domino. I’m just going to keep using her to beat everything. I’ve cleared just about everything, including abyss and 100% 7.1. She’s a monster in this game, I have no idea what some of you are thinking. She’s not difficult to use, so if you don’t use her correctly then you must not be very good at the game.

    My man.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★

    Etjama said:

    I know this is satire (at least I hope), because what Bishop can do in 50 hits Domino can do in 20 with no ramp up.

    It doesn’t matter if you have all the utility in the world if you can quite literally nuke down the enemies health before any danger comes up. In RoL I did 78k damage before he reached 1 bar of power.

    I quit the fight as soon as he reached a bar of power and the incinerate expired.

    I can’t tell you how many times there has been a tough Cav or UC (when my account was smaller) boss that I took Hype or G2099 and put them down before the nodes had a chance to screw with me.

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    No. I agree Domino is better than Bishop but Utility is much more important. It's why Quake is the best champ in the game, it's not CGR. You may be able to burst down an EQ boss, but I'd love to see you use Domino on any restrictive paths in Act 6.
    It depends on the champs bro.
    It really doesn't. Champs that don't have utility aren't going to help you with any challenging content.
  • Options
    Sarvanga1_Sarvanga1_ Posts: 4,139 ★★★★★
    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    I know this is satire (at least I hope), because what Bishop can do in 50 hits Domino can do in 20 with no ramp up.

    It doesn’t matter if you have all the utility in the world if you can quite literally nuke down the enemies health before any danger comes up. In RoL I did 78k damage before he reached 1 bar of power.

    I quit the fight as soon as he reached a bar of power and the incinerate expired.

    I can’t tell you how many times there has been a tough Cav or UC (when my account was smaller) boss that I took Hype or G2099 and put them down before the nodes had a chance to screw with me.

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    No. I agree Domino is better than Bishop but Utility is much more important. It's why Quake is the best champ in the game, it's not CGR. You may be able to burst down an EQ boss, but I'd love to see you use Domino on any restrictive paths in Act 6.
    It depends on the champs bro.
    It really doesn't. Champs that don't have utility aren't going to help you with any challenging content.
    It really does. It depends on the quality of utility a champ has. If the champ has utility which has to be used once every chapter in an act that does not make him good.
  • Options
    EtjamaEtjama Posts: 7,981 ★★★★★
    edited January 2021
    Hilldar said:

    You guys keep hating on Domino. I’m just going to keep using her to beat everything. I’ve cleared just about everything, including abyss and 100% 7.1. She’s a monster in this game, I have no idea what some of you are thinking. She’s not difficult to use, so if you don’t use her correctly then you must not be very good at the game.

    Dude, I've explored 7.1 too and it's where you go to make bad champs look good because of damage boosts, there aren't many requirements at all. Go back to explore Act 6 and see how much you use Domino.
    Voltolos said:

    Etjama said:

    Etjama said:

    I know this is satire (at least I hope), because what Bishop can do in 50 hits Domino can do in 20 with no ramp up.

    It doesn’t matter if you have all the utility in the world if you can quite literally nuke down the enemies health before any danger comes up. In RoL I did 78k damage before he reached 1 bar of power.

    I quit the fight as soon as he reached a bar of power and the incinerate expired.

    I can’t tell you how many times there has been a tough Cav or UC (when my account was smaller) boss that I took Hype or G2099 and put them down before the nodes had a chance to screw with me.

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    No. I agree Domino is better than Bishop but Utility is much more important. It's why Quake is the best champ in the game, it's not CGR. You may be able to burst down an EQ boss, but I'd love to see you use Domino on any restrictive paths in Act 6.
    It depends on the champs bro.
    It really doesn't. Champs that don't have utility aren't going to help you with any challenging content.
    Just like damagless champs wont actually beat any challenging content
    Tell that to anyone without other options. Quaking 6.2 Sinister takes about half an hour but people still do it because their high damage champs can't. Plus all champs have some damage but not all champs have valuable utility. Of course you need both, but I'd take a champ with solid damage and amazing utility like Warlock, Claire, or KM over someone like Cull or Domino any day, and you'd quite honestly be insane to do otherwise.
  • Options
    DualityCopeDualityCope Posts: 433 ★★★
    edited January 2021

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    Well, yes and no. Of course you need damage to finish a fight. Can’t beat a fight if you have spider gwens old SP1 for every attack

    I’m of the opinion that there is a threshold for damage. A champ like Ebony Maw doesn’t get used because they have no damage. Not because he can’t do fights, it’s just that you spend so long in them that your chances of slipping up due to boredom grow exponentially.

    However, once a champ has a respectable level of damage output, say Killmonger or Claire, at that point, that’s when utility becomes the prevailing factor. That’s what makes a champ good after that point

    Fights in this game are like a puzzle. You have to find a counter to champion abilities and nodes. Now, damage very rarely the key to solve these puzzles. No node reads ‘deal 5000 damage in one hit to do X’.

    Utility is how you solve the fights in this game. Damage, if you like, is the auxiliary solution. It’s generally never the intended solution, nor is it typically the most effective. It tends to be the payoff, as we’ve seen in act 7.

    That’s what the whole domino debate is really about. What makes a champion good? Is it their ability to push through problems, or is it to actually solve them?

    Domino might be able to burst through a tricky fight, but that’s only going to get you so far. Eventually there is going to be a door you can’t just blast your way through. You’ll need the key.

    That’s why I think utility is more important than damage. All champions deal damage. Any key named ‘damage’ can be reasonably done by most champs. But a key named ‘bleed immunity’ or ‘evade counter’ is not going to be covered by every champ. Never mind the doors with multiple locks.

    I think you get many more keys out of investing in a utility champ over a damage champ.

    Is bishop better than domino? No. Clearly not. His utility isn’t particularly strong or practical. And his damage is sub par to dominos. Plus he kills himself. The OG Ihulk.

    But there’s a reason I took Emma Frost to R3 over domino, Sabretooth, even colossus. Those champs have a lot of damage. But Emma has utility. Lots of it. And when it comes down to it, I would rather have an arsenal of utility over high damage.

    Not to say high damage champs are bad, they clearly aren’t. They might kill an iron fist in 10 seconds, but they might not be able to kill a Hyperion, or Modok without resorting to burst and revives.

    Thank you for coming to my ted talk
    I agree with everything you said, though sometimes zerging something down with full suicides and maybe boosts can actually go around those doors that require keys you were mentioning. Like for example take the 6.4.5 adaptoid, he has unstoppable up like 100% of the time, has that regen and he has hella health to top all that off. Now you'd think to you'd need to bring in she hulk or stealthy or Claire voyant as the key for that fight, but you'd prob be surprised that you can just zerg him down with aegon. Not even joking, you can literally just take a hit into your heavy a couple of times then melt his 600k healthpool away. It's actually stupid, he has zero keys to deal with that fight (no slow, nullify, stagger) yet he still can take that adaptoid down in a solo. I mean at a certain point with some of these ridiculous dmg champions, dmg starts to become a very valuable utility in itself.
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    Well, yes and no. Of course you need damage to finish a fight. Can’t beat a fight if you have spider gwens old SP1 for every attack

    I’m of the opinion that there is a threshold for damage. A champ like Ebony Maw doesn’t get used because they have no damage. Not because he can’t do fights, it’s just that you spend so long in them that your chances of slipping up due to boredom grow exponentially.

    However, once a champ has a respectable level of damage output, say Killmonger or Claire, at that point, that’s when utility becomes the prevailing factor. That’s what makes a champ good after that point

    Fights in this game are like a puzzle. You have to find a counter to champion abilities and nodes. Now, damage very rarely the key to solve these puzzles. No node reads ‘deal 5000 damage in one hit to do X’.

    Utility is how you solve the fights in this game. Damage, if you like, is the auxiliary solution. It’s generally never the intended solution, nor is it typically the most effective. It tends to be the payoff, as we’ve seen in act 7.

    That’s what the whole domino debate is really about. What makes a champion good? Is it their ability to push through problems, or is it to actually solve them?

    Domino might be able to burst through a tricky fight, but that’s only going to get you so far. Eventually there is going to be a door you can’t just blast your way through. You’ll need the key.

    That’s why I think utility is more important than damage. All champions deal damage. Any key named ‘damage’ can be reasonably done by most champs. But a key named ‘bleed immunity’ or ‘evade counter’ is not going to be covered by every champ. Never mind the doors with multiple locks.

    I think you get many more keys out of investing in a utility champ over a damage champ.

    Is bishop better than domino? No. Clearly not. His utility isn’t particularly strong or practical. And his damage is sub par to dominos. Plus he kills himself. The OG Ihulk.

    But there’s a reason I took Emma Frost to R3 over domino, Sabretooth, even colossus. Those champs have a lot of damage. But Emma has utility. Lots of it. And when it comes down to it, I would rather have an arsenal of utility over high damage.

    Not to say high damage champs are bad, they clearly aren’t. They might kill an iron fist in 10 seconds, but they might not be able to kill a Hyperion, or Modok without resorting to burst and revives.

    Thank you for coming to my ted talk
    I agree with everything you said, though sometimes zerging something down with full suicides and max boosts can actually go around those doors that require keys you were mentioning. Like for example take the 6.4.5 adaptoid, he has unstoppable up like 100% of the time, has that regen and he has hella health to top all that off. Now you'd think to you'd need to bring in she hulk or stealthy or Claire voyant as the key for that fight, but you'd prob be surprised that you can just zerg him down with aegon. Not even joking, you can literally just take a hit into your heavy a couple of times then melt his 600k healthpool away. It's actually stupid, he has zero keys to deal with that fight (no slow, nullify, stagger) yet he still can take that adaptoid down in a solo. I mean at a certain point with some of these ridiculous dmg champions, dmg starts to become a very valuable utility in itself.
    Oh absolutely, and that’s really impressive with the Ægon take down. I mean, that’s essentially the strategy with Abyss collector. You can try to play around his mechanics, but in the end, you just Ægon it

    Really, it just depends how big a bomb you’ve got.

    But at the same time, she hulk, stealthy, etc are going to be much safer options, and safer investments for the future.

    I doubt we’ll see anything a fully roided up Ægon can’t take on, but at the same time, Ægon is unparalleled in that regard. I would interested whether other ‘high damage champs’ like domino, Corvus, CMM could take that fight like Ægon does
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    Well, yes and no. Of course you need damage to finish a fight. Can’t beat a fight if you have spider gwens old SP1 for every attack

    I’m of the opinion that there is a threshold for damage. A champ like Ebony Maw doesn’t get used because they have no damage. Not because he can’t do fights, it’s just that you spend so long in them that your chances of slipping up due to boredom grow exponentially.

    However, once a champ has a respectable level of damage output, say Killmonger or Claire, at that point, that’s when utility becomes the prevailing factor. That’s what makes a champ good after that point

    Fights in this game are like a puzzle. You have to find a counter to champion abilities and nodes. Now, damage very rarely the key to solve these puzzles. No node reads ‘deal 5000 damage in one hit to do X’.

    Utility is how you solve the fights in this game. Damage, if you like, is the auxiliary solution. It’s generally never the intended solution, nor is it typically the most effective. It tends to be the payoff, as we’ve seen in act 7.

    That’s what the whole domino debate is really about. What makes a champion good? Is it their ability to push through problems, or is it to actually solve them?

    Domino might be able to burst through a tricky fight, but that’s only going to get you so far. Eventually there is going to be a door you can’t just blast your way through. You’ll need the key.

    That’s why I think utility is more important than damage. All champions deal damage. Any key named ‘damage’ can be reasonably done by most champs. But a key named ‘bleed immunity’ or ‘evade counter’ is not going to be covered by every champ. Never mind the doors with multiple locks.

    I think you get many more keys out of investing in a utility champ over a damage champ.

    Is bishop better than domino? No. Clearly not. His utility isn’t particularly strong or practical. And his damage is sub par to dominos. Plus he kills himself. The OG Ihulk.

    But there’s a reason I took Emma Frost to R3 over domino, Sabretooth, even colossus. Those champs have a lot of damage. But Emma has utility. Lots of it. And when it comes down to it, I would rather have an arsenal of utility over high damage.

    Not to say high damage champs are bad, they clearly aren’t. They might kill an iron fist in 10 seconds, but they might not be able to kill a Hyperion, or Modok without resorting to burst and revives.

    Thank you for coming to my ted talk
    I agree with everything you said, though sometimes zerging something down with full suicides and max boosts can actually go around those doors that require keys you were mentioning. Like for example take the 6.4.5 adaptoid, he has unstoppable up like 100% of the time, has that regen and he has hella health to top all that off. Now you'd think to you'd need to bring in she hulk or stealthy or Claire voyant as the key for that fight, but you'd prob be surprised that you can just zerg him down with aegon. Not even joking, you can literally just take a hit into your heavy a couple of times then melt his 600k healthpool away. It's actually stupid, he has zero keys to deal with that fight (no slow, nullify, stagger) yet he still can take that adaptoid down in a solo. I mean at a certain point with some of these ridiculous dmg champions, dmg starts to become a very valuable utility in itself.
    Oh absolutely, and that’s really impressive with the Ægon take down. I mean, that’s essentially the strategy with Abyss collector. You can try to play around his mechanics, but in the end, you just Ægon it

    Really, it just depends how big a bomb you’ve got.

    But at the same time, she hulk, stealthy, etc are going to be much safer options, and safer investments for the future.

    I doubt we’ll see anything a fully roided up Ægon can’t take on, but at the same time, Ægon is unparalleled in that regard. I would interested whether other ‘high damage champs’ like domino, Corvus, CMM could take that fight like Ægon does
    Nah those other high dmg champs don't even come close to a fully roided aegon when you get hit in the heavy, so they would get slapped. I do agree on that statement about the key options being safer for that particular fight, but for the future especially aegon slaps those champs around and its not even close. He's just aegon, mans can get around stuff he wasn't even built for just cuz of that utility of his stupid dmg. Only other champ off the top of my head that compares to him for getting around stuff just cuz of his dumb dmg is prob thing with synergies.
    Oh believe me I know, I’ve got a 6* R3 Ægon. He shreds.
  • Options
    RockypantherxRockypantherx Posts: 3,900 ★★★★★

    Utility is great but damage is how you win fights at the end of the day (of course unless it’s something with strict requirements like diss track or buffed up).

    1. However, once a champ has a respectable level of damage output, say Killmonger or Claire, at that point, that’s when utility becomes the prevailing factor. That’s what makes a champ good after that point

    2. That’s what the whole domino debate is really about. What makes a champion good? Is it their ability to push through problems, or is it to actually solve them?
    1. To that I would say yes both. If you can overpower a champ before they become an issue, that is just as viable a solution as quaking the whole thing. Idk side tangent, I feel like a lot of people aren’t aware of mechanical utility unless that is literally their playstyle (like Quake). Domino has an unparryable first light and second dash attack hit that can deal with Electros and Medusa’s and the like. She can string together 11 hit combos on any parry, making Void a laughing matter. She can also do crazy damage with 2hit combos, keeping power low and hit count lower (Thing, Counter Tactics, special delivery, etc).

    2. Although I do feel like the damage vs utility debate is interesting, I can’t get behind it so long as Domino is the staple “all damage no utility” because that’s simply not true.
    1. I mean, this is my point. There comes a point where just bursting them down falls out of the equation. Utility never does. And is overpowering something reliable? Sometimes yes. Other times you’re probably just hammering things (no pun intended) and hoping things go right

    2. You could argue that’s utility. But is effective, is it practical? If you have no other options, sure.

    But take electro for example. You’re only throwing two hit comboes. Which means you damage output is limited on basic comboes, you have to find more openings, which is going to result in more block damage or risky intercepts, plus you’ll be getting less power over time comparatively and per opening. And when domino is relying on specials for damage, it’s significantly hindering any point to use her

    The Medusa highlights a point around building a roster around high damage champs. I’m not sure why you would use domino against Medusa in the first place since any nullify or true strike champ is much easier. But if you are relying on domino for that, to me that’s showing a huge gap in someone’s roster.

    11 hit combos requires a synergy, and if you’re sacrificing a spot to make domino counter void better, you might as well just bring a void counter.

    I’m assuming your final point is referring to the domino trinity with the 2 hit thing. It doesn’t really keep power low. Comparatively heavy attacks give the opponent more power. But they do have a high hit-damage ratio, which is proven to be very effective

    Finally, I think painting domino as the “all damage no utility” champ is entirely fair. You pointed out 3 scenarios. From what I garner from it, the specific utility points you pointed out there are pretty much only applicable to those matchups.

    The argument is that she has no real utility. She doesn’t do anything effectively, or the best. It depends whether you define utility as just any ability a champ can do, or an ability that is actually effective within a roster. By my definition, the second one, no, she doesn’t have any real utility. She is almost never going to solve a problem within a roster that isn’t just “can I burst this down before I die”. Which might be a perfectly viable solution. But it shouldn’t be relied upon or integrated into a roster

    In my opinion, domino works best as a champion that gets players through act 5, and maybe 6.1, while they build up a roster that can actually effectively tackle content.

    I know it sounds like I’ve been absolutely slating her here, and I suppose I have been. She’s not a bad champ. She’s shown that she does do things for people. And KD does hate on her a bit much. But I’ve got a R2 6*. And I know that if I encounter a problem, she never even enters the conversation. Because even when it comes to bursting things down, she’s not the most effective at that
Sign In or Register to comment.