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They Killed YellowJacket

12357

Comments

  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,015 ★★★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,015 ★★★★★
    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.
  • KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★
    edited February 2021

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    Pre Rework when a Debuff was converted into a Passive Effect, that I'm pretty sure was affected by Ability Accuracy because that Ability had a Chance to activate and that Chance was subject to addition and subtraction. I can actually check this in a minute on Auntm.ai since their Data Base isn't updated yet.

    "Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before."
    Wait what? His Overpower Fury was always a Buff.
    His Previous Passive Rage Effect had the Effects on it, this New Debuff Rage is a Blank Debuff and his Passive Ability (this one being the Always Active Type) is what give him a Bonus.
    There's Passive Abilities and Passive Effects, Effects can be affected by Ability Accuracy unless stated otherwise. (Or that's how it's always been explained to me.)
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
  • KDSuperFlash10KDSuperFlash10 Posts: 5,869 ★★★★★

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
    Meant to write about Kingpin instead of YJ my bad
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
    Meant to write about Kingpin instead of YJ my bad
    But we aren't saying Kingpin is Bad either, or I'm not anyways, I'm saying Grounded's point about AAR was there Pre Rework as well. I think he got confused at some point, which is understandable btw We're All Human-We Make Mistakes.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    I understand that you're just drawing your points from the "strengths and weaknesses " section from his spotlight. But I woul like to inform you that it is the exact same as when he was released 3 years ago
    Wait that's what happened? That's a Very Limited way of explaining things let alone using it in a discussion...
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    I can actually check this in a minute on Auntm.ai since their Data Base isn't updated yet.

    Scratch that Auntm.ai just got updated... But there is still the Original Spotlight like Hi_Guys brought up.

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason why YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear. I'm sorry if you don't agree with their balancing outcome, but we're not the ones designing them.
    Any update to an champ should improve him. Changing it from passive to debuff did not actually improve him in anyway, that is why I am asking. How exactly is it balancing, when you make a champ worse in a matchup that he was reasonably good earlier?
    He's better than he was before the buff. That doesn't mean he's going to be the same or better with the same matchups. Things WILL change when you change the Abilities of a Champ.
    Also yes I agree with this, that's like how Magneto isn't as good in some Mystic Matchups with all those Buffs he got after his Rework. But he's infinitely better in all the other Matchups, then even further in Metal Matchups.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall.
    What are you even on about. Read through the thread before throwing out a general statement like this. No one is actually saying Kingpin buff is bad. He is loads better than he was in terms of damage. In terms of utility, it seems like a "nerf" by making is rage a debuff instead of a passive.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
  • The_Sentry06The_Sentry06 Posts: 7,756 ★★★★★

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
    Meant to write about Kingpin instead of YJ my bad
    No one's s

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
    Meant to write about Kingpin instead of YJ my bad
    No one's saying he is bad. It's that he doesn't work in a matchup that he ideally should which is fine IMO.A
    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason why YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear. I'm sorry if you don't agree with their balancing outcome, but we're not the ones designing them.
    Any update to an champ should improve him. Changing it from passive to debuff did not actually improve him in anyway, that is why I am asking. How exactly is it balancing, when you make a champ worse in a matchup that he was reasonably good earlier?
    The update did improve him. With a buff comes all sorts changes. Some good and some bad but the overall change should in the positive for the character. Some recent examples are that DDHK used to work decently with suicides untill recently and Mags vs mystics as stated above . Kingpin is a victim of that but you can't argue that his buff made him a load better than previously.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★
    I suppose they could've kept the Rage Passive then added "Rage Passives Count As A Debuff Towards This Ability." to this Ability's Description.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    I suppose they could've kept the Rage Passive then added "Rage Passives Count As A Debuff Towards This Ability." to this Ability's Description.

    Still this only fixes like 1 maybe 2 Matchups that he is now bad for due to the Rage being a Debuff, it's a small issue but does have a simple solution.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
    Meant to write about Kingpin instead of YJ my bad
    No one's s

    That's about all I'm going to say on the subject because I'm really out of ways to explain it and the horse isn't dead. It's hamburger.

    Don't even bother with them, it's like speaking to a wall. YJ is great now, okay he doesn't hit like a truck so what, he's a utility god.
    We're talking about Kingpin I thought?
    Meant to write about Kingpin instead of YJ my bad
    No one's saying he is bad. It's that he doesn't work in a matchup that he ideally should which is fine IMO.A
    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason why YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear. I'm sorry if you don't agree with their balancing outcome, but we're not the ones designing them.
    Any update to an champ should improve him. Changing it from passive to debuff did not actually improve him in anyway, that is why I am asking. How exactly is it balancing, when you make a champ worse in a matchup that he was reasonably good earlier?
    The update did improve him. With a buff comes all sorts changes. Some good and some bad but the overall change should in the positive for the character. Some recent examples are that DDHK used to work decently with suicides untill recently and Mags vs mystics as stated above . Kingpin is a victim of that but you can't argue that his buff made him a load better than previously.
    Honestly, my only gripe is that for matchups where we typically need shrug off like void or where we have a penalty on you for having debuffs, he is not viable. Since this is skill class which typically shruggs off debuffs, it seems really a odd choice.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    I suppose they could've kept the Rage Passive then added "Rage Passives Count As A Debuff Towards This Ability." to this Ability's Description.

    I suppose they could've kept the Rage Passive then added "Rage Passives Count As A Debuff Towards This Ability." to this Ability's Description.

    Still this only fixes like 1 maybe 2 Matchups that he is now bad for due to the Rage being a Debuff, it's a small issue but does have a simple solution.
    This would also remove the need to have his Regen Rate Reduced... Actually why didn't they just do this, instead they went with this odd backwards way?
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,015 ★★★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★
    HI_guys said:

    I suppose they could've kept the Rage Passive then added "Rage Passives Count As A Debuff Towards This Ability." to this Ability's Description.

    Just like Torch Nova flames being counted for his incinerate abilities. It's not like it's unprecedented
    Also Red Hulk blocking Any Mystic Attack counts as an Energy Attack for the Heat Charge Ability, but if it was a Physical Attack it still deals Physical Damage.
  • GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 30,015 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    Its like talking to a wall. :wink:
  • LibertyPrimeV1LibertyPrimeV1 Posts: 4,166 ★★★★★

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    Pulyaman said:

    HI_guys said:

    SWORD78 said:

    His PowerSting Debuffs are no longer Passive. How is that a Buff. They Nerfed him so hard

    Oh no :cry: Kingpin rage is no longer passive. That means Void can do his damage against Kingpin. They Nerfed him so hard.

    Before you just post random stuff, please play with the champ lol
    Isn't that. Legit concern? You'd think a debuff shrugging champ is good agaisnt void
    Oooooorrrrrr don't use him against Void.
    How is this even an reasonable answer. His main utility is shrug off debuffs. And he fails against the one champ where having a Debuff on you is not good. Of course people know not to use him against void with a Debuff. Question is why his rage was changed from passive effect to active debuff.
    It would have been too powerful without the possibility of being Nullified, seems to be the obvious bet.
    Sometimes, I wonder about you mate. Nothing would change in his kit if the rage was a passive and his regen rate was kept normal.
    Nothing would change? Disagree with that.
    Really? What would change. Will he become OP? or lose any utility or damage? I am curious. I don't want the regen rate changed btw. I agree it would be to good in almost all other matches.
    Look at his new kit and consider how it would be if it was Passive. You can't see how that would be too much?
    I honestly don't see it. Please explain it to me.
    I don't need to break it down. Read the Spotlight and consider all that with immunity to AAR.
    First of all like everybody else here I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I’m a smart person so maybe it’s a you problem and not a me problem just sayin, second of all talk about it elsewhere this is a YJ bash chat
    I'm pretty sure what I said was clear. I can't account for people not making use of the information provided. For that matter, everyone likes to consider themselves the foremost expert on what's too powerful and what isn't, but not many people stop to look at the greater picture, or the whole kit overall. If it didn't make that much difference to begin with, people wouldn't be arguing in favor of it.
    Secondly, the "YJ bash chat" isn't founded on anything but opinion, and it relates to YJ either way. Bottom line is, the Champs are better than they were before. Only people refuse to acknowledge that because they're set on their ideas about making them "better". This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nothing you said was clear. You keep making vague statements about him being op and asking everyone to read his spotlight when nothing in his spotlight mentions why they changed rage from passive to debuff. If you know something we dont, come out and say it.
    I wasn't vague at all. I asked if you could see why he COULD be OP if it was still Passive. It's really not that hard to see. For that matter, if it's inconsequential, why are you arguing that it should have remained Passive? I've already pointed out the interaction with AAR. All Champs have strengths and weaknesses. These changes are balanced for a reason. It's all fine and good to throw out ideas on what they should and shouldn't have, but there's a reason for every change made.
    Now you are just talking semantics when you run out of arguments. My argument was pretty clear on why it should be passive. It will make him a great option against void, which is almost the only defender you don't want a debuff on you and we can still retain the will power heal at 100%. See how I clearly explained my points instead of sending people on a treasure hunt?
    This is just word soup and I'm not repeating myself. Twice I've said it. I'm not saying it again. You gave your own reason while YOU THINK it should be Passive. I gave the reason why I think it isn't. This isn't Build-A-Bear.
    You gave literally no reason to why it should be a debuff. You just told to check the spotlight
    BECAUSE HE CAN BE INFLUENCED BY AAR. Sweet Mary and Joseph. Do people read?
    Not sure what your point is here? Passives are affected by AAR too unless explicitly stated, like Dragon Man's Cornered Passive.
    When it was a Passive, it was neither a Buff or a Debuff. It was triggered and converted into a Passive. Now you have a mechanic that operates by converting Debuffs (Rage) into Buffs. Which means in order to balance him, he has to be affected by AAR and Nullify. Which ne never was before. The whole Passive/Buff/Debuff subject gets confusing, but Kingpin's Rage has never been affected by anything to the best of my knowledge as a Passive. Only the Buffs that came during Overpower. Meaning the rate at which he can reach and sustain Overpower can be affected now. Previously, it would have come without fail, making him too powerful for heavy Debuff Fights.
    For someone who claims to play Kingpin a lot, you seem to be very ill versed. His shrug off was affected by AAR as I already mentioned. Get 5 or more spores on him and he will fail to shrug off an debuff. Blade will almost always cause his shrug off to fail, Sabretooth with km synergy also works here. So, there was no reason to make it a debuff other than simply saying this is our design now, deal with it as @Worknprogress said.lol
    No, they didn't just throw it in there just because.
    Actually it kind of feels like they did when I think about it, it could've stayed a Passive then simply add 1 Line to the Attack/Power Gain per Debuff Ability saying the Passives counted as Debuffs for that Ability. Then there would've been no need for reducing his Regen Rate by 50% then making his Base Rate Unaffected by other Abilities or Boosts, they could've avoided that entirely. But now he has a Similar New Ability to another recently Buffed Champion...
    No. They couldn't have. Any idea what a nightmare it would have been to come up against him with a Champ that relies on Debuffs, if you had no way to affect the Rage? Given his new kit, it would have been annoying as hell.
    Ability Accuracy Reduction exists... His Passive Rage was Always Affected By Ability Accuracy.
This discussion has been closed.