Mole man bugged on Flux Dispersal node

I recently took my buffed Mole Man to rank 4, and have been playing him a lot. I was exploring Uncollected EQ when I got to the Flux Dispersal node, and found a bug. As the node states, the defender gains a flux charge every hit, reducing damage by 5%. These charges can be removed by landing a heavy attack onto the defender. But with Mole Man almost 4 out of every 5 times I would use a heavy attack it wouldn’t shrug off the stacks. I tried the fights with a Cap IW and everything seemed to work fine, it was just with Mole Man

Comments

Etjama

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.

MysteryMaestro

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.

That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.

Quantum_Fizzix

I just saw that too, though it was only during frenzy that I saw it.

Etjama

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.
That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.

It makes complete sense. Ability accuracy reduction affects abilities, including ones provided by nodes. You may not like it on flux dispersal, but I bet you like it when it benefits you. It's dumb to think one should work and not the other.

IvarTheBoneless

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.
That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.
It makes complete sense. Ability accuracy reduction affects abilities, including ones provided by nodes. You may not like it on flux dispersal, but I bet you like it when it benefits you. It's dumb to think one should work and not the other.

I completely agree with you.

However flux dispersal has been around for a while and I never remember it failing so often. Maybe I thought it was a bug on the nodee back then or it's some sort of bias. I started thinking one of the updates recently changed how pacify interacts with nodes.

With the new nodes that benefit you, it could be that we only recently started noticing and thought it was just 'contest of bugs' on other nodes before. What are your thoughts about this, conspiracy theory crazy or not?

I've been wanting to bring this up in the thread about game mechanics by @DNA3000 so I'm tagging him for potential insights.

MysteryMaestro

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.
That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.
It makes complete sense. Ability accuracy reduction affects abilities, including ones provided by nodes. You may not like it on flux dispersal, but I bet you like it when it benefits you. It's dumb to think one should work and not the other.
I completely agree with you.

However flux dispersal has been around for a while and I never remember it failing so often. Maybe I thought it was a bug on the nodee back then or it's some sort of bias. I started thinking one of the updates recently changed how pacify interacts with nodes.

With the new nodes that benefit you, it could be that we only recently started noticing and thought it was just 'contest of bugs' on other nodes before. What are your thoughts about this, conspiracy theory crazy or not?

I've been wanting to bring this up in the thread about game mechanics by @DNA3000 so I'm tagging him for potential insights.

Okay I shouldn’t have said doesn’t make sense. Wrong wording, more like, shouldn’t work the way it does. And okay yes while I do see what you’re saying, as I know well how useful ability accuracy can be for certain nodes, as I’ve used Gwenpool enough to know, for example, a node like Strike Back doesn’t activate with reduced ability accuracy, what I’m saying is it shouldn’t have any negative effects towards you with a node that’s more like a mini game, as with the case of this node. Let me just say this, you buy mastery cores, you invest mastery points into and buy the pacify mastery because it has great value in many matchups, but then what you have paid for makes it harder? This shouldn’t be the case with masteries (except the suicide masteries of course), as you’re basically unintentionally paying for more difficulty. With any of the styles of nodes that are sort of like mini games in the fight, like Flux Dispersal, Pressure Gauge, or Aegis, they should be completely separate and unaffected by ability accuracy reduction. That’s just my opinion on what they should do with it.

unknown

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unknown

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DNA3000

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.
That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.
It makes complete sense. Ability accuracy reduction affects abilities, including ones provided by nodes. You may not like it on flux dispersal, but I bet you like it when it benefits you. It's dumb to think one should work and not the other.
I completely agree with you.

However flux dispersal has been around for a while and I never remember it failing so often. Maybe I thought it was a bug on the nodee back then or it's some sort of bias. I started thinking one of the updates recently changed how pacify interacts with nodes.

With the new nodes that benefit you, it could be that we only recently started noticing and thought it was just 'contest of bugs' on other nodes before. What are your thoughts about this, conspiracy theory crazy or not?

I've been wanting to bring this up in the thread about game mechanics by @DNA3000 so I'm tagging him for potential insights.
Okay I shouldn’t have said doesn’t make sense. Wrong wording, more like, shouldn’t work the way it does. And okay yes while I do see what you’re saying, as I know well how useful ability accuracy can be for certain nodes, as I’ve used Gwenpool enough to know, for example, a node like Strike Back doesn’t activate with reduced ability accuracy, what I’m saying is it shouldn’t have any negative effects towards you with a node that’s more like a mini game, as with the case of this node. Let me just say this, you buy mastery cores, you invest mastery points into and buy the pacify mastery because it has great value in many matchups, but then what you have paid for makes it harder? This shouldn’t be the case with masteries (except the suicide masteries of course), as you’re basically unintentionally paying for more difficulty. With any of the styles of nodes that are sort of like mini games in the fight, like Flux Dispersal, Pressure Gauge, or Aegis, they should be completely separate and unaffected by ability accuracy reduction. That’s just my opinion on what they should do with it.

It isn't just the suicide masteries that don't always work in your favor. Infamously, dexterity's crit buff can be turned against you in many fights, like say Dormammu. Willpower healing can be turned against you with nodes like Spectre or when fighting champions like Warlock. It isn't a case of the masteries not always helping, so much as it is everything in the game has a counter.

Now, that doesn't mean that every node effect like this *must* be affected by AAR. Sometimes the design intent is for the effect to always happen regardless of ability accuracy. Many abilities are specifically designed to be unaffected by AAR effects. But the logic that an effect must always work in the favor of the player is not a good reason to make that design decision, because that's not a road the game follows, or should follow. It would cripple the ability for the game to make interesting effects for fights.

Things that can never be countered cannot be allowed to be very strong. If you think a champion's ability should always work, you're in effect saying the devs should nerf it, or not allow it to come into existence in the first place. Champions can only be allowed to have strong abilities if they can be countered in some content. To what degree is a fair discussion. But the absolute rule that champion abilities or mastery abilities should never be counterable or reversible is not a workable one.

unknown

This content has been removed.

DNA3000

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.
That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.
It makes complete sense. Ability accuracy reduction affects abilities, including ones provided by nodes. You may not like it on flux dispersal, but I bet you like it when it benefits you. It's dumb to think one should work and not the other.
I completely agree with you.

However flux dispersal has been around for a while and I never remember it failing so often. Maybe I thought it was a bug on the nodee back then or it's some sort of bias. I started thinking one of the updates recently changed how pacify interacts with nodes.

With the new nodes that benefit you, it could be that we only recently started noticing and thought it was just 'contest of bugs' on other nodes before. What are your thoughts about this, conspiracy theory crazy or not?

I've been wanting to bring this up in the thread about game mechanics by @DNA3000 so I'm tagging him for potential insights.
Okay I shouldn’t have said doesn’t make sense. Wrong wording, more like, shouldn’t work the way it does. And okay yes while I do see what you’re saying, as I know well how useful ability accuracy can be for certain nodes, as I’ve used Gwenpool enough to know, for example, a node like Strike Back doesn’t activate with reduced ability accuracy, what I’m saying is it shouldn’t have any negative effects towards you with a node that’s more like a mini game, as with the case of this node. Let me just say this, you buy mastery cores, you invest mastery points into and buy the pacify mastery because it has great value in many matchups, but then what you have paid for makes it harder? This shouldn’t be the case with masteries (except the suicide masteries of course), as you’re basically unintentionally paying for more difficulty. With any of the styles of nodes that are sort of like mini games in the fight, like Flux Dispersal, Pressure Gauge, or Aegis, they should be completely separate and unaffected by ability accuracy reduction. That’s just my opinion on what they should do with it.
It isn't just the suicide masteries that don't always work in your favor. Infamously, dexterity's crit buff can be turned against you in many fights, like say Dormammu. Willpower healing can be turned against you with nodes like Spectre or when fighting champions like Warlock. It isn't a case of the masteries not always helping, so much as it is everything in the game has a counter.

Now, that doesn't mean that every node effect like this *must* be affected by AAR. Sometimes the design intent is for the effect to always happen regardless of ability accuracy. Many abilities are specifically designed to be unaffected by AAR effects. But the logic that an effect must always work in the favor of the player is not a good reason to make that design decision, because that's not a road the game follows, or should follow. It would cripple the ability for the game to make interesting effects for fights.

Things that can never be countered cannot be allowed to be very strong. If you think a champion's ability should always work, you're in effect saying the devs should nerf it, or not allow it to come into existence in the first place. Champions can only be allowed to have strong abilities if they can be countered in some content. To what degree is a fair discussion. But the absolute rule that champion abilities or mastery abilities should never be counterable or reversible is not a workable one.
I have a theory that there is no abilitiy in the game that always guaranteed to work. It just has an inflated Ability accuracy that is unaffected by current aar champs potency. Iron man infinity war beams have a 300% chance to bypass evade. So quake sat does not cut it

Although this has never been confirmed officially or tested with certainty, it was hinted in a loading screen text thing (which I think has since been removed, curiously) that the way ability accuracy works is that every ability effect has an ability accuracy which is the chance for that thing to happen, and the champion itself has an ability accuracy stat (which we don't see) that is multiplied by that ability accuracy to get the actual chance to happen. These mechanics seem to be confirmed by the design of Longshot, who is stated to have base 300% AA, and whose individual abilities are adjusted in such a way that their stated chance to occur is based on 300% AA. So when he's stated to have 75% chance to lose Karma, that's actually an intrinsic 25% chance that is boosted to 75% chance by Longshot's intrinsic AA. That also explains why his chance to gain Karma is 51%: 51 is divisible by 3, and the designer probably wanted to set the intrinsic AA to a nice number like "17%" rather than something ugly like "16.667%" to make it come out to 50%.

So a champion normally has a 100% base ability accuracy, and if that champion has an ability that has a 15% chance to occur that means the ability itself has a 15% AA. So the chance to occur is 100% x 15% = 15%. If we debuff that champion's intrinsic AA by 50%, we lower the 100% to 50%, we don't touch the 15% (that's why a 50% debuff doesn't reduce 15% to -35% even though most debuffs are linear: it is subtracting from 100%, not 15%).

But if this theory is true, individual abilities cannot have artificially boosted AA just to avoid strong AAR because the math doesn't quite work, or at least it doesn't match observations in all cases. I suspect in the example you're describing what's happening is that the property of IMIW repulsor attacks to be "not evadable" is not triggered on each attack, it is something "baked into" the ability, so it doesn't have to be triggered. We know the devs have ways to flag things as "always happens" and "can never be prevented from happening or undone" in general - maybe not literally, but in terms of the net effect. Consider immunities. Champions immune to bleed or poison have passive abilities that confer those immunities. But as far as we know, nothing that block those abilities from triggering, and nothing can remove them. If anything did, we'd all call that a bug, but for a game with a gigaton of bugs, I've never seen that one. That implies immunities aren't "fragile" and the devs cannot easily make a mistake that causes them to get shut down during a fight. And that tells me there's a very good chance that those abilities are "protected" by "nope, cannot turn off" flags that protect them against ability accuracy reduction (among other things).

unknown

This content has been removed.

DNA3000

$10 says you're running Pacify. You must've just gotten unlucky with Mole Man then got lucky with Cap.
That makes no sense though, it shouldn’t have any ability accuracy for an incoming attack removing stacks. If that is the case, they really should adjust the nodes trigger to change from ability accuracy to a flat 100% chance not affected by ability accuracy reduction. It’s not a good feature, you pay for the mastery and invest points into it, then get harder fights because of it? Doesn’t make sense.
It makes complete sense. Ability accuracy reduction affects abilities, including ones provided by nodes. You may not like it on flux dispersal, but I bet you like it when it benefits you. It's dumb to think one should work and not the other.
I completely agree with you.

However flux dispersal has been around for a while and I never remember it failing so often. Maybe I thought it was a bug on the nodee back then or it's some sort of bias. I started thinking one of the updates recently changed how pacify interacts with nodes.

With the new nodes that benefit you, it could be that we only recently started noticing and thought it was just 'contest of bugs' on other nodes before. What are your thoughts about this, conspiracy theory crazy or not?

I've been wanting to bring this up in the thread about game mechanics by @DNA3000 so I'm tagging him for potential insights.
Okay I shouldn’t have said doesn’t make sense. Wrong wording, more like, shouldn’t work the way it does. And okay yes while I do see what you’re saying, as I know well how useful ability accuracy can be for certain nodes, as I’ve used Gwenpool enough to know, for example, a node like Strike Back doesn’t activate with reduced ability accuracy, what I’m saying is it shouldn’t have any negative effects towards you with a node that’s more like a mini game, as with the case of this node. Let me just say this, you buy mastery cores, you invest mastery points into and buy the pacify mastery because it has great value in many matchups, but then what you have paid for makes it harder? This shouldn’t be the case with masteries (except the suicide masteries of course), as you’re basically unintentionally paying for more difficulty. With any of the styles of nodes that are sort of like mini games in the fight, like Flux Dispersal, Pressure Gauge, or Aegis, they should be completely separate and unaffected by ability accuracy reduction. That’s just my opinion on what they should do with it.
It isn't just the suicide masteries that don't always work in your favor. Infamously, dexterity's crit buff can be turned against you in many fights, like say Dormammu. Willpower healing can be turned against you with nodes like Spectre or when fighting champions like Warlock. It isn't a case of the masteries not always helping, so much as it is everything in the game has a counter.

Now, that doesn't mean that every node effect like this *must* be affected by AAR. Sometimes the design intent is for the effect to always happen regardless of ability accuracy. Many abilities are specifically designed to be unaffected by AAR effects. But the logic that an effect must always work in the favor of the player is not a good reason to make that design decision, because that's not a road the game follows, or should follow. It would cripple the ability for the game to make interesting effects for fights.

Things that can never be countered cannot be allowed to be very strong. If you think a champion's ability should always work, you're in effect saying the devs should nerf it, or not allow it to come into existence in the first place. Champions can only be allowed to have strong abilities if they can be countered in some content. To what degree is a fair discussion. But the absolute rule that champion abilities or mastery abilities should never be counterable or reversible is not a workable one.
I have a theory that there is no abilitiy in the game that always guaranteed to work. It just has an inflated Ability accuracy that is unaffected by current aar champs potency. Iron man infinity war beams have a 300% chance to bypass evade. So quake sat does not cut it
Although this has never been confirmed officially or tested with certainty, it was hinted in a loading screen text thing (which I think has since been removed, curiously) that the way ability accuracy works is that every ability effect has an ability accuracy which is the chance for that thing to happen, and the champion itself has an ability accuracy stat (which we don't see) that is multiplied by that ability accuracy to get the actual chance to happen. These mechanics seem to be confirmed by the design of Longshot, who is stated to have base 300% AA, and whose individual abilities are adjusted in such a way that their stated chance to occur is based on 300% AA. So when he's stated to have 75% chance to lose Karma, that's actually an intrinsic 25% chance that is boosted to 75% chance by Longshot's intrinsic AA. That also explains why his chance to gain Karma is 51%: 51 is divisible by 3, and the designer probably wanted to set the intrinsic AA to a nice number like "17%" rather than something ugly like "16.667%" to make it come out to 50%.

So a champion normally has a 100% base ability accuracy, and if that champion has an ability that has a 15% chance to occur that means the ability itself has a 15% AA. So the chance to occur is 100% x 15% = 15%. If we debuff that champion's intrinsic AA by 50%, we lower the 100% to 50%, we don't touch the 15% (that's why a 50% debuff doesn't reduce 15% to -35% even though most debuffs are linear: it is subtracting from 100%, not 15%).

But if this theory is true, individual abilities cannot have artificially boosted AA just to avoid strong AAR because the math doesn't quite work, or at least it doesn't match observations in all cases. I suspect in the example you're describing what's happening is that the property of IMIW repulsor attacks to be "not evadable" is not triggered on each attack, it is something "baked into" the ability, so it doesn't have to be triggered. We know the devs have ways to flag things as "always happens" and "can never be prevented from happening or undone" in general - maybe not literally, but in terms of the net effect. Consider immunities. Champions immune to bleed or poison have passive abilities that confer those immunities. But as far as we know, nothing that block those abilities from triggering, and nothing can remove them. If anything did, we'd all call that a bug, but for a game with a gigaton of bugs, I've never seen that one. That implies immunities aren't "fragile" and the devs cannot easily make a mistake that causes them to get shut down during a fight. And that tells me there's a very good chance that those abilities are "protected" by "nope, cannot turn off" flags that protect them against ability accuracy reduction (among other things).
@DNA3000 the reaosn I say this is from 2 things. 1) the description of Gold pool and 2) it is actually possible for a glanced hit to crit. That makes me think glancing just reduces your crit rate by 300 % or something.

Critical chance isn't a kind of ability accuracy as such and obeys different rules. But I'm not sure your 300% theory works, because debuffs are linear: such a debuff should reduce critical chance to zero. It is more likely crits on glanced attacks is some subtle bug in mechanics and not unexpected math.

And as to Goldpool, yes it is possible for an ability's AA to be set higher than 100% to make it less vulnerable to AAR: that is a fact. But I don't think that's evidence that there are no guaranteed abilities, just inflated AA. In fact, we know with absolute certainty that there are abilities explicitly stated to be immune to AAR effects and behave as if that were true (because they don't have 100% chance to happen, so they cannot be immune to AAR due to inflated AA), so there's every reason to believe that some of the "guaranteed to happen" abilities are also similarly immune to AAR and not just possessing super high AA.