Why antman needs the buff the most

Austin555555

Antman is useless and with an overhaul, he could be a science god.
Guillotine still has use. She can heal reverse, Jane foster can stagger abilities, joe fixit has decent bleed, agent venom has tenacity and a good bleed. And Kamala khan doesn’t need an overhaul, just a value update. She can hit hard already.

Antman is the most deserving and most useless one of them all so I beg you to consider helping antman get an overhaul

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Furious_Fighter1

Do we really need more of these threads?

Shock29

Furious_Fighter1 said:

Do we really need more of these threads?

Is that even a question? There needs to be more threads like this. Antman FTW!!!

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Raichu626

They'll all get a buff. That's not what the poll is about, it's just about who gets it first.

Also, Antman's winning, by all the landslides.

Austin555555

Raichu626 said:

They'll all get a buff. That's not what the poll is about, it's just about who gets it first.

Also, Antman's winning, by all the landslides.

Very true but the arena coming up about it may be different

TrashyPanda

The poll isn't about who needs the buff the most, but who you wanted Kabam to buff.

ChaosMax1012

No, joe fixit does not have decent bleed damage. Kinda why hes on the list. Whilst ant man can be made a science god, lets just pretend void, beardo, quake, she hulk, spider gwen, red hulk, immortal hulk, spider ham, human torch, iabom, dont exist, if he wins the poll, its only really to benefit the ghost team, of which you only really need to use ghost and wasp. Perhaps joe fixit could do with a tune up, similar to terrax and mole god. I am starting to think guilly truly deserves the overhaul, i dont think a single mystic champion has had an overhaul before and her uses is often found in most of the tech class and science class. Thanks for the disagrees in advance.

ChaosMax1012

ChaosMax1012 said:

No, joe fixit does not have decent bleed damage. Kinda why hes on the list. Whilst ant man can be made a science god, lets just pretend void, beardo, quake, she hulk, spider gwen, red hulk, immortal hulk, spider ham, human torch, iabom, dont exist, if he wins the poll, its only really to benefit the ghost team, of which you only really need to use ghost and wasp. Perhaps joe fixit could do with a tune up, similar to terrax and mole god. I am starting to think guilly truly deserves the overhaul, i dont think a single mystic champion has had an overhaul before and her uses is often found in most of the tech class and science class. Thanks for the disagrees in advance.

Regardless it’s either ant man or guillotine getting the overhaul, i would just love to see guilly acquire new abilities and interactions with her souls and expand her utility through them.

Shadowstrike

ChaosMax1012 said:

No, joe fixit does not have decent bleed damage. Kinda why hes on the list. Whilst ant man can be made a science god, lets just pretend void, beardo, quake, she hulk, spider gwen, red hulk, immortal hulk, spider ham, human torch, iabom, dont exist, if he wins the poll, its only really to benefit the ghost team, of which you only really need to use ghost and wasp. Perhaps joe fixit could do with a tune up, similar to terrax and mole god. I am starting to think guilly truly deserves the overhaul, i dont think a single mystic champion has had an overhaul before and her uses is often found in most of the tech class and science class. Thanks for the disagrees in advance.

Okay well let's try this from a different approach..

I don't care about Ghost.

The Quantum synergies are a non-issue to me.

I just like Ant-Man and I would like his character to be better! In fact, I would prefer all of the Avengers be a heck of a lot better than what they are now, however since he is the only one that's currently listed on this poll, he is the one I voted for. The fact that he doesn't have at least one or two attacks based off of Giant-Man.. C'mon that is a true shame, IMO.

Everybody else for the exception of Joe Fixit could have just as much have benefited, if not more so from an update but let's be honest.. Joe Fixit doesn't really feel important enough to warrant a buff regardless.

ChaosMax1012

Shadowstrike said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

No, joe fixit does not have decent bleed damage. Kinda why hes on the list. Whilst ant man can be made a science god, lets just pretend void, beardo, quake, she hulk, spider gwen, red hulk, immortal hulk, spider ham, human torch, iabom, dont exist, if he wins the poll, its only really to benefit the ghost team, of which you only really need to use ghost and wasp. Perhaps joe fixit could do with a tune up, similar to terrax and mole god. I am starting to think guilly truly deserves the overhaul, i dont think a single mystic champion has had an overhaul before and her uses is often found in most of the tech class and science class. Thanks for the disagrees in advance.

Okay well let's try this from a different approach..

I don't care about Ghost.

The Quantum synergies are a non-issue to me.

I just like Ant-Man and I would like his character to be better! In fact, I would prefer all of the Avengers be a heck of a lot better than what they are now, however since he is the only one that's currently listed on this poll, he is the one I voted for. The fact that he doesn't have at least one or two attacks based off of Giant-Man.. C'mon that is a true shame, IMO.

Everybody else for the exception of Joe Fixit could have just as much have benefited, if not more so from an update but let's be honest.. Joe Fixit doesn't really feel important enough to warrant a buff regardless.

Great point! I love ant man too. Guilly is just badass to me and is a kabam creation, that no longer feels unique like she did back then, whilst ant man is semi useful so synergies but is dead weight. He would be my second pick but the science, skill and mutant class have been receiving so much love recently, mystic and tech could use some work, and unfortunately no tech champs are listed, so guilly seems like the best option in my opinion. Cant go wrong with either but would love for guillotine to be the first champ receiving the overhaul

Shadowstrike

ChaosMax1012 said:

Shadowstrike said:

ChaosMax1012 said:

No, joe fixit does not have decent bleed damage. Kinda why hes on the list. Whilst ant man can be made a science god, lets just pretend void, beardo, quake, she hulk, spider gwen, red hulk, immortal hulk, spider ham, human torch, iabom, dont exist, if he wins the poll, its only really to benefit the ghost team, of which you only really need to use ghost and wasp. Perhaps joe fixit could do with a tune up, similar to terrax and mole god. I am starting to think guilly truly deserves the overhaul, i dont think a single mystic champion has had an overhaul before and her uses is often found in most of the tech class and science class. Thanks for the disagrees in advance.

Okay well let's try this from a different approach..

I don't care about Ghost.

The Quantum synergies are a non-issue to me.

I just like Ant-Man and I would like his character to be better! In fact, I would prefer all of the Avengers be a heck of a lot better than what they are now, however since he is the only one that's currently listed on this poll, he is the one I voted for. The fact that he doesn't have at least one or two attacks based off of Giant-Man.. C'mon that is a true shame, IMO.

Everybody else for the exception of Joe Fixit could have just as much have benefited, if not more so from an update but let's be honest.. Joe Fixit doesn't really feel important enough to warrant a buff regardless.

Great point! I love ant man too. Guilly is just badass to me and is a kabam creation, that no longer feels unique like she did back then, whilst ant man is semi useful so synergies but is dead weight. He would be my second pick but the science, skill and mutant class have been receiving so much love recently, mystic and tech could use some work, and unfortunately no tech champs are listed, so guilly seems like the best option in my opinion. Cant go wrong with either but would love for guillotine to be the first champ receiving the overhaul

I like guillotine, she is definitely one of my favorites from the Mystic class and I wouldn't mind if she got the overhaul, but I feel like she only needs one or two pieces added to her kit as well as updated synergies to really make her shine again.

Etjama

I find it hilarious how people are just assuming that we're only voting Ant-Man for his synergies. This is why he needs a buff:

That's his whole kit 😐. The fact that he'd be the last needed buff for a full Ghost synergy team is just another great added bonus.

Shadowstrike

Etjama said:

I find it hilarious how people are just assuming that we're only voting Ant-Man for his synergies. This is why he needs a buff:

That's his whole kit 😐. The fact that he'd be the last needed buff for a full Ghost synergy team is just another great added bonus.

Exactly!

Squirrelguy

The fact that you call him useless and then go on to list a total of literally two uses for Agent Venom, when Ant-man has Glancing, fatigue, poisons, a great synergy with Ghost, and a number of other synergies that add several other layers of utility is ridiculous

-sixate-

AM has been trash since the day he came out. He needs it the most out of the others. Fixit is a close second. I'm a huge Ghost user, I NEVER use AM. No chance I'll rank mine up after he's buffed because I'm done ranking up 5*, but I still voted for him.

Etjama

Squirrelguy said:

The fact that you call him useless and then go on to list a total of literally two uses for Agent Venom, when Ant-man has Glancing, fatigue, poisons, a great synergy with Ghost, and a number of other synergies that add several other layers of utility is ridiculous

Lmao, are you really trying to call fatigue and glancing utility? That just sounds like biased BS. And his poison damage is non-existent. The only thing in his whole kit I'd classify as utility is the Sp1 Staggers with Psycho-Man. Freakin Psycho-Man who you're never going to bring to a team.

Agent Venom sucks too but at least his shrug has uses, I even used my 6* in V5 when I didn't have any other options for Iceman.

Squirrelguy

Etjama said:

Squirrelguy said:

The fact that you call him useless and then go on to list a total of literally two uses for Agent Venom, when Ant-man has Glancing, fatigue, poisons, a great synergy with Ghost, and a number of other synergies that add several other layers of utility is ridiculous

Lmao, are you really trying to call fatigue and glancing utility? That just sounds like biased BS. And his poison damage is non-existent. The only thing in his whole kit I'd classify as utility is the Sp1 Staggers with Psycho-Man. Freakin Psycho-Man who you're never going to bring to a team.

Agent Venom sucks too but at least his shrug has uses, I even used my 6* in V5 when I didn't have any other options for Iceman.

I mean, I’m not saying he’s great, but I would rate glancing and 70% tenacity as an extremely similar ability/utility. Both decrease the chance of taking damage or the severity of damage, and yes ideally you would never get hit so glancing would be less useful, but most damaging debuffs only apply when you get hit anyways, so it’s a very similar argument (outside of several specific situations). Saying antman is useless and then listing a specific utility for another champ that mirrors one of antman’s seems more biased to me.

I would 100% count fatigues as utility, especially when the Ghost synergy (which you will be using like 97% of the tome that you play antman) gives you +15% attack per Debuff on the opponent. There is also the quantum trinity synergies with Wasp that I won’t get into, not to mention the synergy with 3 evade charges for the whole team if you bring nick fury, who I almost always bring on my team, which I would count as utility (and especially nice if you don’t have a high enough rarity of quake, or prefer to do the full quantum synergy so you bring antman anyways). He also has a synergy with Ronin (lol autocorrected that to Robin, wrong universe) that gives him access to more debuffs, this more attack)

As stated in the post I did the other day, Agent venom has way less useful synergies, or synergies that other champs also have but better. Antman has useful synergies, or is necessary for his specific synergies. He’s not great, but he’s way more viable than posts like this portray him to be.

As a side note, I realize that I’m not putting a dash in Ant-man, but does anyone actually do that for any of these heroes with a dash in their name?

Pulyaman

Squirrelguy said:

Etjama said:

Squirrelguy said:

The fact that you call him useless and then go on to list a total of literally two uses for Agent Venom, when Ant-man has Glancing, fatigue, poisons, a great synergy with Ghost, and a number of other synergies that add several other layers of utility is ridiculous

Lmao, are you really trying to call fatigue and glancing utility? That just sounds like biased BS. And his poison damage is non-existent. The only thing in his whole kit I'd classify as utility is the Sp1 Staggers with Psycho-Man. Freakin Psycho-Man who you're never going to bring to a team.

Agent Venom sucks too but at least his shrug has uses, I even used my 6* in V5 when I didn't have any other options for Iceman.

I mean, I’m not saying he’s great, but I would rate glancing and 70% tenacity as an extremely similar ability/utility. Both decrease the chance of taking damage or the severity of damage, and yes ideally you would never get hit so glancing would be less useful, but most damaging debuffs only apply when you get hit anyways, so it’s a very similar argument (outside of several specific situations). Saying antman is useless and then listing a specific utility for another champ that mirrors one of antman’s seems more biased to me.

I would 100% count fatigues as utility, especially when the Ghost synergy (which you will be using like 97% of the tome that you play antman) gives you +15% attack per Debuff on the opponent. There is also the quantum trinity synergies with Wasp that I won’t get into, not to mention the synergy with 3 evade charges for the whole team if you bring nick fury, who I almost always bring on my team, which I would count as utility (and especially nice if you don’t have a high enough rarity of quake, or prefer to do the full quantum synergy so you bring antman anyways). He also has a synergy with Ronin (lol autocorrected that to Robin, wrong universe) that gives him access to more debuffs, this more attack)

As stated in the post I did the other day, Agent venom has way less useful synergies, or synergies that other champs also have but better. Antman has useful synergies, or is necessary for his specific synergies. He’s not great, but he’s way more viable than posts like this portray him to be.

As a side note, I realize that I’m not putting a dash in Ant-man, but does anyone actually do that for any of these heroes with a dash in their name?

How about AV vs void? Or how about nodes which place debuffs on you when you are close to defender. There are many ways to get debuffs on you, glancing only works when you get hit. And even then it screws you over. Do you know how many times I have parried and not got fury when using caiw in the cav science node because of glancing? Antman has such a bad attack rating that even with ghost synergy he hits bad. No comparison here.

Squirrelguy

Pulyaman said:

Squirrelguy said:

Etjama said:

Squirrelguy said:

The fact that you call him useless and then go on to list a total of literally two uses for Agent Venom, when Ant-man has Glancing, fatigue, poisons, a great synergy with Ghost, and a number of other synergies that add several other layers of utility is ridiculous

Lmao, are you really trying to call fatigue and glancing utility? That just sounds like biased BS. And his poison damage is non-existent. The only thing in his whole kit I'd classify as utility is the Sp1 Staggers with Psycho-Man. Freakin Psycho-Man who you're never going to bring to a team.

Agent Venom sucks too but at least his shrug has uses, I even used my 6* in V5 when I didn't have any other options for Iceman.

I mean, I’m not saying he’s great, but I would rate glancing and 70% tenacity as an extremely similar ability/utility. Both decrease the chance of taking damage or the severity of damage, and yes ideally you would never get hit so glancing would be less useful, but most damaging debuffs only apply when you get hit anyways, so it’s a very similar argument (outside of several specific situations). Saying antman is useless and then listing a specific utility for another champ that mirrors one of antman’s seems more biased to me.

I would 100% count fatigues as utility, especially when the Ghost synergy (which you will be using like 97% of the tome that you play antman) gives you +15% attack per Debuff on the opponent. There is also the quantum trinity synergies with Wasp that I won’t get into, not to mention the synergy with 3 evade charges for the whole team if you bring nick fury, who I almost always bring on my team, which I would count as utility (and especially nice if you don’t have a high enough rarity of quake, or prefer to do the full quantum synergy so you bring antman anyways). He also has a synergy with Ronin (lol autocorrected that to Robin, wrong universe) that gives him access to more debuffs, this more attack)

As stated in the post I did the other day, Agent venom has way less useful synergies, or synergies that other champs also have but better. Antman has useful synergies, or is necessary for his specific synergies. He’s not great, but he’s way more viable than posts like this portray him to be.

As a side note, I realize that I’m not putting a dash in Ant-man, but does anyone actually do that for any of these heroes with a dash in their name?

How about AV vs void? Or how about nodes which place debuffs on you when you are close to defender. There are many ways to get debuffs on you, glancing only works when you get hit. And even then it screws you over. Do you know how many times I have parried and not got fury when using caiw in the cav science node because of glancing? Antman has such a bad attack rating that even with ghost synergy he hits bad. No comparison here.

The problem with AV's tenacity/shrug off is that it applies 70% of the time. Any time you try to bring him in a quest where a node or champion specific ability is guaranteed to place a debuff on you, he could shrug it, but it is not even close to guaranteed, which makes it relatively useless in endgame content where plenty of debuffs can knock 10-50% of your health off as a single debuff, if not just completely wreck you. There are other champs with guaranteed shrug off or actual immunities that will always be a better choice.

Also, you may be mistaking Cap IW's abilities in the cav science node, because I am fairly sure you don't get fury debuffs as often with him because of his ability to use a kinetic shield or whatever they are called to (100% chance at max sig, guaranteed) shrug off the poison that you would gain, so you can't purify the poison, and thus get less furies. I don't think it is possible for him to not get the passive fury because the parried attack glanced. I could be wrong, but there you go.

Pulyaman

Squirrelguy said:

Pulyaman said:

Squirrelguy said:

Etjama said:

Squirrelguy said:

The fact that you call him useless and then go on to list a total of literally two uses for Agent Venom, when Ant-man has Glancing, fatigue, poisons, a great synergy with Ghost, and a number of other synergies that add several other layers of utility is ridiculous

Lmao, are you really trying to call fatigue and glancing utility? That just sounds like biased BS. And his poison damage is non-existent. The only thing in his whole kit I'd classify as utility is the Sp1 Staggers with Psycho-Man. Freakin Psycho-Man who you're never going to bring to a team.

Agent Venom sucks too but at least his shrug has uses, I even used my 6* in V5 when I didn't have any other options for Iceman.

I mean, I’m not saying he’s great, but I would rate glancing and 70% tenacity as an extremely similar ability/utility. Both decrease the chance of taking damage or the severity of damage, and yes ideally you would never get hit so glancing would be less useful, but most damaging debuffs only apply when you get hit anyways, so it’s a very similar argument (outside of several specific situations). Saying antman is useless and then listing a specific utility for another champ that mirrors one of antman’s seems more biased to me.

I would 100% count fatigues as utility, especially when the Ghost synergy (which you will be using like 97% of the tome that you play antman) gives you +15% attack per Debuff on the opponent. There is also the quantum trinity synergies with Wasp that I won’t get into, not to mention the synergy with 3 evade charges for the whole team if you bring nick fury, who I almost always bring on my team, which I would count as utility (and especially nice if you don’t have a high enough rarity of quake, or prefer to do the full quantum synergy so you bring antman anyways). He also has a synergy with Ronin (lol autocorrected that to Robin, wrong universe) that gives him access to more debuffs, this more attack)

As stated in the post I did the other day, Agent venom has way less useful synergies, or synergies that other champs also have but better. Antman has useful synergies, or is necessary for his specific synergies. He’s not great, but he’s way more viable than posts like this portray him to be.

As a side note, I realize that I’m not putting a dash in Ant-man, but does anyone actually do that for any of these heroes with a dash in their name?

How about AV vs void? Or how about nodes which place debuffs on you when you are close to defender. There are many ways to get debuffs on you, glancing only works when you get hit. And even then it screws you over. Do you know how many times I have parried and not got fury when using caiw in the cav science node because of glancing? Antman has such a bad attack rating that even with ghost synergy he hits bad. No comparison here.

The problem with AV's tenacity/shrug off is that it applies 70% of the time. Any time you try to bring him in a quest where a node or champion specific ability is guaranteed to place a debuff on you, he could shrug it, but it is not even close to guaranteed, which makes it relatively useless in endgame content where plenty of debuffs can knock 10-50% of your health off as a single debuff, if not just completely wreck you. There are other champs with guaranteed shrug off or actual immunities that will always be a better choice.

Also, you may be mistaking Cap IW's abilities in the cav science node, because I am fairly sure you don't get fury debuffs as often with him because of his ability to use a kinetic shield or whatever they are called to (100% chance at max sig, guaranteed) shrug off the poison that you would gain, so you can't purify the poison, and thus get less furies. I don't think it is possible for him to not get the passive fury because the parried attack glanced. I could be wrong, but there you go.

CAIW can only shrug off when you have a skill champ in your team. I don't bring skill champ for that reason. What happens is when you parry and if the attack glances, the attack has 100% reduced Ability accuracy which affects the node.
Regarding AV, that is the reason he needs a tune up and not an overhaul. His basic kit is solid, his numbers are not. Even kingpin only has 60% chance to shrug off the debuff which becomes 100% with Hood synergy. So, AV needs a update on his synergies and numbers. I won't say no for an overhaul, but antman needs it more than AV since Antman has no abilities

Squirrelguy

Pulyaman said:

Antman has no abilities

....

Pulyaman

Squirrelguy said:

Pulyaman said:

Antman has no abilities

....

I admit, that was an exaggeration. His description is the worst in the game. He gets glancing once awakened(defensive ability), places fatigue on basic attacks and converts them to poison on sp2. he doesn't have do anything on sp1 or sp3.

The_Sentry06

Ok Ant-Man needs the buff the most but please don't come up with excuses for the other champs. They also need buffs.

Pulyaman

The_Sentry06 said:

Ok Ant-Man needs the buff the most but please don't come up with excuses for the other champs. They also need buffs.

All the listed champs need some work. But the reason people come up for Antman not needing a buff is funny. He adds attack with YJ, he has good synergy with ghost. .

Kerneas

Ant man can glance and poison. With Ghost synergy, he is better than Fixit 100%.

FluffyPigMonster

Kerneas said:

Ant man can glance and poison. With Ghost synergy, he is better than Fixit 100%.

I feel like both of those champs could benefit just from a significant numbers boost. Right now any fight with both of them take forever. I would, however, like both of them to be re-worked or something new added to their respective kits.

Both need some help. I don't know how they're going to do AM's animations. He can't shrink all the time.

Pulyaman

Kerneas said:

Ant man can glance and poison. With Ghost synergy, he is better than Fixit 100%.

Why do people count glance as a big ability. You cannot use it anywhere. Joe fixit actually has a decent kit. Based on the matchup you can heal, apply debuffs, has a aegon like mechanic where the more combo you get, the more you crit. He can also inflict bleed. The basic kit is there, only thing he needs is a numbers tune up and more decent synergies.

FluffyPigMonster

Pulyaman said:

Kerneas said:

Ant man can glance and poison. With Ghost synergy, he is better than Fixit 100%.

Why do people count glance as a big ability. You cannot use it anywhere.

I agree with this. Unless it's guaranteed and fixed that it somehow bypasses thorns or spiked armor or something consistently then it's hard to find uses for it that you can't use a ton of other champs for.

Defensively it's annoying to the attacker, but as an attacker the uses are limited and not really the first option you'd think of.

Shadowstrike

The_Sentry06 said:

Ok Ant-Man needs the buff the most but please don't come up with excuses for the other champs. They also need buffs.

Yeah no question, they all need buffs but most of those Buffs could be fixed with updates rather than full overhauls.