Where do the rest of the mystics fall in? You left out dormammu, Diablo, ghost rider, loki, mangog manthing. I mean sure, if you leave most of the mystics out, it does seem science has more studs. At least attempt to look fair mate.😂
I didnt even realize i left out diablo. But the rest you just listed arent duds. People use manthing in top tier AQ, loki to counter champions with a lot of buffs, and mangog has decent utility but under average damage, but not in the same tier as juggs. Dormmamu just needs more damage, but i wouldnt quit the game if i pulled him, i quite enjoy playing him still, hes one of the more unique mystics. Ghost rider has great sustainability, and has immunity to bleed and incinerate, along with decent synergies, but again, his main issue is damage. As far as fairness goes, im trying my best to list all the facts of both sides, i might miss some which is partly why i ask for feedback. In my perspective, it seems like the science class has a power house of champs along with the best champion in the game being quake, and many have a unique playstyle, whilst mystics have similar uses in controlling power and buffs.
I don't like it when people say oh those guys aren't duds. Yeah maybe their fine for progressing players, but my loki and ghost rider? rank one. Ghost rider is over, cgr far outshines him and other champions can end fights quicker. Blade is ok but outgrown. Man thing is underrated but hes for synergies and niche fights with lots of buffs. Dormamu? Absolute garbage. One of my first five stars. Commited to learning him. He's bad. Two hit combs can keep the opponent from ever throwing a speical but it takes so long and his energy damage can be used against him so much nowadays. Yeah quake is broken, but Id rather throw one special two with ghost than spend 1 minute holding heavy and dexing.
Oh and as a guy that uses ghost daily, i always use my beardo and torch, and especially wasp, who i use more than ghost at times.
Where do the rest of the mystics fall in? You left out dormammu, Diablo, ghost rider, loki, mangog manthing. I mean sure, if you leave most of the mystics out, it does seem science has more studs. At least attempt to look fair mate.😂
Btw just realized, this goes against your own argument, if science has more duds that just gives more reason to give ant man an overhaul lol.
Yes, science has lots of good character. And I think its fine to add more because they arent broken. Wasp? yeah she's ok but Im using ghost instead of her. Immortal Ibomb? thanks but id rather end the fight in a few seconds with corvus. Cap Iw and void? thanks but ill skip the awakening and max sig and just take my doom in have 10 blocked hits and win the fight. Science is full of good champions but other classes have broken ones so its fine. Not to mention a lot of those champs arent going to be used as much as the god and beyond god tiers.
I’m not taking any sides in this, but I have to say, this is one of the dumbest comments I’ve read in the forums ever
Yes, science has lots of good character. And I think its fine to add more because they arent broken. Wasp? yeah she's ok but Im using ghost instead of her. Immortal Ibomb? thanks but id rather end the fight in a few seconds with corvus. Cap Iw and void? thanks but ill skip the awakening and max sig and just take my doom in have 10 blocked hits and win the fight. Science is full of good champions but other classes have broken ones so its fine. Not to mention a lot of those champs arent going to be used as much as the god and beyond god tiers.
I’m not taking any sides in this, but I have to say, this is one of the dumbest comments I’ve read in the forums ever
Yeah like why would you compare Doom and Void? They’re very different champions and do very different things.
I think ant man is great for a buff, and I disagree that because science has more good champs than mystic it means he shouldn’t get a buff, but damn do I not agree with RekMan’s logic, if that’s what it can be called.
Yes, science has lots of good character. And I think its fine to add more because they arent broken. Wasp? yeah she's ok but Im using ghost instead of her. Immortal Ibomb? thanks but id rather end the fight in a few seconds with corvus. Cap Iw and void? thanks but ill skip the awakening and max sig and just take my doom in have 10 blocked hits and win the fight. Science is full of good champions but other classes have broken ones so its fine. Not to mention a lot of those champs arent going to be used as much as the god and beyond god tiers.
I’m not taking any sides in this, but I have to say, this is one of the dumbest comments I’ve read in the forums ever
Yeah like why would you compare Doom and Void? They’re very different champions and do very different things.
I think ant man is great for a buff, and I disagree that because science has more good champs than mystic it means he shouldn’t get a buff, but damn do I not agree with RekMan’s logic, if that’s what it can be called.
No no, he NEEDS this overhaul, i just believe in our current meta, guilly NEEDS it more, but regardless whoever wins the poll, the overhaul is something to look forward to.
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
#BuffAntman
Had we all known the classes the champions were, blue marvel would have beaten hercules, he seemed to be a skill champ at the time of which we needed, but the skill class has improved a lot since. Also her abilities are common which is why she’s just as useless, because a significant amount of champs do what she does, better. With this vote, we have most of the info needed to actually vote. But again, hercules won because he was a favorite to most people, so by your logic, ant man shouldnt win. Huge difference betweem an overhaul and a champion being added btw
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
#BuffAntman
Had we all known the classes the champions were, blue marvel would have beaten hercules, he seemed to be a skill champ at the time of which we needed, but the skill class has improved a lot since. Also her abilities are common which is why she’s just as useless, because a significant amount of champs do what she does, better. With this vote, we have most of the info needed to actually vote. But again, hercules won because he was a favorite to most people, so by your logic, ant man shouldnt win. Huge difference betweem an overhaul and a champion being added btw
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
#BuffAntman
Had we all known the classes the champions were, blue marvel would have beaten hercules, he seemed to be a skill champ at the time of which we needed, but the skill class has improved a lot since. Also her abilities are common which is why she’s just as useless, because a significant amount of champs do what she does, better. With this vote, we have most of the info needed to actually vote. But again, hercules won because he was a favorite to most people, so by your logic, ant man shouldnt win. Huge difference betweem an overhaul and a champion being added btw
Guillotine is not useless, she just has less uses than others. The thing with a heal reversal champion is that they can be used no matter the content - Because a 3* void reverses healing just as well as a 6* rank 3. Guilly has a pretty solid Sp2 heal reversal, shadowed by a lot of champions yes, but it still reverses healing.
This means Guillotine is still useful in some places, if you absolutely need a heal reversal champion she can be used. Plus, she is (to my knowledge) the only mystic champion who can heal reverse, which means when looking at gated content like variants or 6.2, she can be useful. With a life steal as well, she can be useful. She is by no means the best, but it is very likely far more Guilly's are being ranked up than Ant men.
Ant man however, has nothing offensive. Glancing slightly reduces parries, poison does less damage than a 1*, fatiuge? Contender for the least useful debuff for offence. He has the square root of nothing going for him. Synergies do not count to make a champion good unless they transform the character a la Abom with Red guardian. Simply having the synergy does not make a champion less worthy of a buff. Take heimdall, people want him buffed even through his synergy is good, take DPXF too, he still deserves a buff. Regardless of the class, or how bad a champion is, synergies alone do not take a champion off the list of deserving a buff.
Looking objectively at Ant man vs Guilly, ant man is by far the worse champion. Guilly can be used, and I'm sure she will get a buff at some point, but right now, ant man is much more deserving
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
#BuffAntman
Had we all known the classes the champions were, blue marvel would have beaten hercules, he seemed to be a skill champ at the time of which we needed, but the skill class has improved a lot since. Also her abilities are common which is why she’s just as useless, because a significant amount of champs do what she does, better. With this vote, we have most of the info needed to actually vote. But again, hercules won because he was a favorite to most people, so by your logic, ant man shouldnt win. Huge difference betweem an overhaul and a champion being added btw
Guillotine is not useless, she just has less uses than others. The thing with a heal reversal champion is that they can be used no matter the content - Because a 3* void reverses healing just as well as a 6* rank 3. Guilly has a pretty solid Sp2 heal reversal, shadowed by a lot of champions yes, but it still reverses healing.
This means Guillotine is still useful in some places, if you absolutely need a heal reversal champion she can be used. Plus, she is (to my knowledge) the only mystic champion who can heal reverse, which means when looking at gated content like variants or 6.2, she can be useful. With a life steal as well, she can be useful. She is by no means the best, but it is very likely far more Guilly's are being ranked up than Ant men.
Ant man however, has nothing offensive. Glancing slightly reduces parries, poison does less damage than a 1*, fatiuge? Contender for the least useful debuff for offence. He has the square root of nothing going for him. Synergies do not count to make a champion good unless they transform the character a la Abom with Red guardian. Simply having the synergy does not make a champion less worthy of a buff. Take heimdall, people want him buffed even through his synergy is good, take DPXF too, he still deserves a buff. Regardless of the class, or how bad a champion is, synergies alone do not take a champion off the list of deserving a buff.
Looking objectively at Ant man vs Guilly, ant man is by far the worse champion. Guilly can be used, and I'm sure she will get a buff at some point, but right now, ant man is much more deserving
She can be used. But what makes her useless is how many champs can be used the way she can, but better, and for more content. So her only value is worthless.
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
#BuffAntman
Had we all known the classes the champions were, blue marvel would have beaten hercules, he seemed to be a skill champ at the time of which we needed, but the skill class has improved a lot since. Also her abilities are common which is why she’s just as useless, because a significant amount of champs do what she does, better. With this vote, we have most of the info needed to actually vote. But again, hercules won because he was a favorite to most people, so by your logic, ant man shouldnt win. Huge difference betweem an overhaul and a champion being added btw
Guillotine is not useless, she just has less uses than others. The thing with a heal reversal champion is that they can be used no matter the content - Because a 3* void reverses healing just as well as a 6* rank 3. Guilly has a pretty solid Sp2 heal reversal, shadowed by a lot of champions yes, but it still reverses healing.
This means Guillotine is still useful in some places, if you absolutely need a heal reversal champion she can be used. Plus, she is (to my knowledge) the only mystic champion who can heal reverse, which means when looking at gated content like variants or 6.2, she can be useful. With a life steal as well, she can be useful. She is by no means the best, but it is very likely far more Guilly's are being ranked up than Ant men.
Ant man however, has nothing offensive. Glancing slightly reduces parries, poison does less damage than a 1*, fatiuge? Contender for the least useful debuff for offence. He has the square root of nothing going for him. Synergies do not count to make a champion good unless they transform the character a la Abom with Red guardian. Simply having the synergy does not make a champion less worthy of a buff. Take heimdall, people want him buffed even through his synergy is good, take DPXF too, he still deserves a buff. Regardless of the class, or how bad a champion is, synergies alone do not take a champion off the list of deserving a buff.
Looking objectively at Ant man vs Guilly, ant man is by far the worse champion. Guilly can be used, and I'm sure she will get a buff at some point, but right now, ant man is much more deserving
She can be used. But what makes her useless is how many champs can be used the way she can, but better, and for more content. So her only value is worthless.
But you don’t get it, she )has a use, making her better than ant man. Ant man has nothing that makes him useful for end game content. Guilly can be used to reverse healing, something that happens whether the champion is good or not.
Ant man is much more worthy of a buff based on the fact that mystic and science are two pretty equally balanced classes, and ant man has less (0) useful abilities in end game content
This is totally my opinion but, mister negative is gonna be science, and mister fantastic is receiving a tune up. We need more love to the mystic class and guillotine truly seems like the right answer to receive the overhaul. She has been overshadowed by g2099, warlock, human torch, void, civil warrior even. Ant man definitely deserves an overhaul eventually, but in our current meta, mystic really needs the help right now. That is all.
With this logic, Hercules shouldn’t have won the vote because he’s cosmic and we have a ton of cosmics. but he did. Why not base a champion on their ability to do things in quests. Antman can’t do literally anything in act 5 or 6 without each fight take half an hour or a full hour. Guillotine has some use and she can hit harder than antman. She has better abilities than antman and I don’t why people wanna overhaul her.
#BuffAntman
Had we all known the classes the champions were, blue marvel would have beaten hercules, he seemed to be a skill champ at the time of which we needed, but the skill class has improved a lot since. Also her abilities are common which is why she’s just as useless, because a significant amount of champs do what she does, better. With this vote, we have most of the info needed to actually vote. But again, hercules won because he was a favorite to most people, so by your logic, ant man shouldnt win. Huge difference betweem an overhaul and a champion being added btw
Guillotine is not useless, she just has less uses than others. The thing with a heal reversal champion is that they can be used no matter the content - Because a 3* void reverses healing just as well as a 6* rank 3. Guilly has a pretty solid Sp2 heal reversal, shadowed by a lot of champions yes, but it still reverses healing.
This means Guillotine is still useful in some places, if you absolutely need a heal reversal champion she can be used. Plus, she is (to my knowledge) the only mystic champion who can heal reverse, which means when looking at gated content like variants or 6.2, she can be useful. With a life steal as well, she can be useful. She is by no means the best, but it is very likely far more Guilly's are being ranked up than Ant men.
Ant man however, has nothing offensive. Glancing slightly reduces parries, poison does less damage than a 1*, fatiuge? Contender for the least useful debuff for offence. He has the square root of nothing going for him. Synergies do not count to make a champion good unless they transform the character a la Abom with Red guardian. Simply having the synergy does not make a champion less worthy of a buff. Take heimdall, people want him buffed even through his synergy is good, take DPXF too, he still deserves a buff. Regardless of the class, or how bad a champion is, synergies alone do not take a champion off the list of deserving a buff.
Looking objectively at Ant man vs Guilly, ant man is by far the worse champion. Guilly can be used, and I'm sure she will get a buff at some point, but right now, ant man is much more deserving
She can be used. But what makes her useless is how many champs can be used the way she can, but better, and for more content. So her only value is worthless.
But you don’t get it, she )has a use, making her better than ant man. Ant man has nothing that makes him useful for end game content. Guilly can be used to reverse healing, something that happens whether the champion is good or not.
Ant man is much more worthy of a buff based on the fact that mystic and science are two pretty equally balanced classes, and ant man has less (0) useful abilities in end game content
Yes. Shes “better” than ant man. But who ever uses her or ant man? Only time ant man is on the team is for synergies , whereas guilly is always in the bench, and that doesn’t really matter but with how stacked the science class is tight now, that makes all the difference, but that doesnt occur to you because you have an opinion and arent trying to see through my perspective. I too have an opinion that is different than yours, i know what you’re saying. Read my previous comments that explain why her utility is worthless, i would vote for ant man easily because i love him too if the science class werent already so unique and powerful, with a lot of the top champs in the game. But guilly is bad ass and in a weaker class that could use the help. Not saying any man doesnt deserve it because of a synergy. I already stated the synergies dont really do much for him, and dont twist my words because im being as unbiased i can be by stating the facts. Both champs have a lot of potential regardless, if ant man wins, nobody should complain. If guilly wins, nobody should complain.
Oh and mystic and science aren’t balanced at all lol, otherwise ant man already won and this wouldn’t be a debate
Both classes have pretty equal numbers of useful end game champions.
Even if that were true, the first comment i wrote in the post points out mister negative is releasing, mister fantastic is getting a tune up, and spider man miles morales is getting an overhaul! Mystic has a lot of great champs, issue being they consist if the same purpose. Please read previous posts before mentioning equivalence. These 2 classes are not equal
Forget about the bigger picture for a minute here. This buff won’t be going live until *at least* October, and so much can change between now and then. Forget about synergies, as there are plenty of times where they aren’t viable or you just don’t have the other part of the equation.
Look at the two champions in a vacuum. Say you’ve started a new account and you are lucky enough to get a 4* out of a PHC early on. If you were given the choice between Guillotine or Antman, you’d be a fool to choose Antman because Guillotine is a far better champion than him. That is a compelling reason to vote Antman here.
That being said, I’m probably voting Guillotine for two reasons. One, she was the four star that popped out of an early PHC for me and carried me through a ton of content in this game years ago. I’ve got a soft spot for her. Two, I think her core soul mechanic is cool and her sp3 is awesome, so I’m excited to see what a modern take on her from Kabam would look like. But I agree with some of the arguments against voting for her, that she’d be plenty good with a moderate update rather than an overhaul.
I also think that a proper Antman overhaul will require animation changes so that we can see Giantman, and I’m not sure if animation changes are on the table for this overhaul (somebody feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here).
Note: I have 6* Antman, unduped. I do not have a 6* Guilly, but I want one even if she doesn’t get the buff.
Forget about the bigger picture for a minute here. This buff won’t be going live until *at least* October, and so much can change between now and then. Forget about synergies, as there are plenty of times where they aren’t viable or you just don’t have the other part of the equation.
Look at the two champions in a vacuum. Say you’ve started a new account and you are lucky enough to get a 4* out of a PHC early on. If you were given the choice between Guillotine or Antman, you’d be a fool to choose Antman because Guillotine is a far better champion than him. That is a compelling reason to vote Antman here.
That being said, I’m probably voting Guillotine for two reasons. One, she was the four star that popped out of an early PHC for me and carried me through a ton of content in this game years ago. I’ve got a soft spot for her. Two, I think her core soul mechanic is cool and her sp3 is awesome, so I’m excited to see what a modern take on her from Kabam would look like. But I agree with some of the arguments against voting for her, that she’d be plenty good with a moderate update rather than an overhaul.
I also think that a proper Antman overhaul will require animation changes so that we can see Giantman, and I’m not sure if animation changes are on the table for this overhaul (somebody feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here).
Note: I have 6* Antman, unduped. I do not have a 6* Guilly, but I want one even if she doesn’t get the buff.
And the potential for guillotine can have interactions with her souls, how they utilize her kit, better synergies, and damage. Potential for ant man is really cool as well, can change size, have pym particles or ants that help out similar to squirrel girl, an interaction similar to yellowjacket where he grows too big and begins to faint, degening overtime but have a timer on how long you can stay big and have a fury buff for the duration of being that size, im not a dev but that could potentially happen. Also if a beginner pulled 4* guilly as their first 4*, they have to use her to progress, same if that champ were groot, ant man, or iron patriot. And my first comment adds to why this new month is a reason ant man is less deserving of the overhaul than guilly. Mister negative is yet again a science champion. With a tune up and overhaul to 2 more science champs, and adding ant man, thats 2 overhauls, 1 science champ being added, and 1 tune up for the science class that is already stacked. Similar to how mutants kept getting stronger after the apocalypse event. But again there’s really no right or wrong if people like the champion.
Void, she hulk, spider gwen, thing, mister fantastic who was already good, cap iw, spider ham, spider man miles morales who is receiving an overhaul, red hulk, quake, immortal hulk, wasp, iabom. What more do you want of the science class???
Meanwhile here are our top mystics. Tigra, doom, claire, magik, morningstar (for incursions), dragon man, mephisto, sym supreme, sorc supreme, mangog. Now take into consideration how many of these champs are used for the same purpose.
Left out VooDoo, Longshot, Mojo, Sasquatch.....so that makes 14 pretty good to god tier champs.....at least 3 of which are top 10 in the game. Tech needs a boost more than any class but they didn't give us that option. I'd argue Mystic and Mutant are the most loaded and can go a while before needing buffs.
And for the record....Of all the champs, an Ant-man buff intrigues me the least....Of all them I want to see an Agent Venom overhaul
Mystic over skill? Nick fury, aegon, falcon, mole god, ronin, crossbones, taskmaster, spider man stealth, killmonger,og bp (on paper), king pin, night thrasher, jabari panther, hit monkey, BWDO, maybe even elsa.
Mystic over cosmic? Corvus, CGR, Hyperion, venom, angela, medusa, cull, proxima, terrax, red goblin, black bolt, hela with odin, and odin potentially, VTD.
Mystic over science? I’ve listed the champs previously.
Many great mystic champs but the issue is they consist of the same purpose. I find tigra the most unique mystic and intriguing. Looking back at the tech class, it too could use a lot of work, but unfortunately None are in the poll.
Yes, top to bottom mystic is better than all three. Skill is catching up though. Mystic has like 15 champs that are useable EVERY single day.....Cosmic is very top heavy. Same with science....Doom, Claire and Sorc Supreme are arguably top 10 champs....and it's an easy argument. That's 3 of the games too 10 in one class. 2 for sure....
Ultimately, everyone had their own reasons for voting whichever way they choose and I respect that. The point I’d like to make is that basing the choice between Ant-Man and Guillotine on the overall quality of their respective classes may not be the most reliable way to vote.
The winner of the vote won’t be buffed until October/November. That means there are 11-14 buffs between now and then that we don’t know about yet, as I’m not counting the May buffs and Miles since we know about them. Plus, that’s not including any new champs released between now and then either.
The state of a class can change in just a few months. Look at the skill class for example. Since February, Kingpin, Mole Man, Masacre, and Crossbones have all been buffed and become significantly better champs to use (I know Masacre didn’t change much but he is easier to ramp so I’m including just because he was improved even if it was slightly), plus we also had Jabari Panther release in April. All of those champs have really helped give the skill class a boost.
Personally, I voted by comparing each champ’s abilities and utility and what they could do on their own, without any synergies. I also didn’t look at any outgoing synergies that benefit other champs, like how Ghost gets benefits from having Ant-Man on the team. Realistically, each champ should have their own uses and be viable options for completing content. While I’m not saying any of the buff candidates are viable options for content, they each have uses, but Ant-Man has the least uses out of all, which is why I voted for him, even though he’s the one champ in the pool I don’t actually own as a 5 or 6 star.
Void, she hulk, spider gwen, thing, mister fantastic who was already good, cap iw, spider ham, spider man miles morales who is receiving an overhaul, red hulk, quake, immortal hulk, wasp, iabom. What more do you want of the science class???
Meanwhile here are our top mystics. Tigra, doom, claire, magik, morningstar (for incursions), dragon man, mephisto, sym supreme, sorc supreme, mangog. Now take into consideration how many of these champs are used for the same purpose.
Left out VooDoo, Longshot, Mojo, Sasquatch.....so that makes 14 pretty good to god tier champs.....at least 3 of which are top 10 in the game. Tech needs a boost more than any class but they didn't give us that option. I'd argue Mystic and Mutant are the most loaded and can go a while before needing buffs.
And for the record....Of all the champs, an Ant-man buff intrigues me the least....Of all them I want to see an Agent Venom overhaul
Mystic over skill? Nick fury, aegon, falcon, mole god, ronin, crossbones, taskmaster, spider man stealth, killmonger,og bp (on paper), king pin, night thrasher, jabari panther, hit monkey, BWDO, maybe even elsa.
Mystic over cosmic? Corvus, CGR, Hyperion, venom, angela, medusa, cull, proxima, terrax, red goblin, black bolt, hela with odin, and odin potentially, VTD.
Mystic over science? I’ve listed the champs previously.
Many great mystic champs but the issue is they consist of the same purpose. I find tigra the most unique mystic and intriguing. Looking back at the tech class, it too could use a lot of work, but unfortunately None are in the poll.
Yes, top to bottom mystic is better than all three. Skill is catching up though. Mystic has like 15 champs that are useable EVERY single day.....Cosmic is very top heavy. Same with science....Doom, Claire and Sorc Supreme are arguably top 10 champs....and it's an easy argument. That's 3 of the games too 10 in one class. 2 for sure....
You dont have to lie to yourself for this champion though. And sorc supreme is NOT a top 10 champion. For war, perhaps. Many good mystics but again ignoring my previous statements, they consist if the same use.
Where do the rest of the mystics fall in? You left out dormammu, Diablo, ghost rider, loki, mangog manthing. I mean sure, if you leave most of the mystics out, it does seem science has more studs. At least attempt to look fair mate.😂
I didnt even realize i left out diablo. But the rest you just listed arent duds. People use manthing in top tier AQ, loki to counter champions with a lot of buffs, and mangog has decent utility but under average damage, but not in the same tier as juggs. Dormmamu just needs more damage, but i wouldnt quit the game if i pulled him, i quite enjoy playing him still, hes one of the more unique mystics. Ghost rider has great sustainability, and has immunity to bleed and incinerate, along with decent synergies, but again, his main issue is damage. As far as fairness goes, im trying my best to list all the facts of both sides, i might miss some which is partly why i ask for feedback. In my perspective, it seems like the science class has a power house of champs along with the best champion in the game being quake, and many have a unique playstyle, whilst mystics have similar uses in controlling power and buffs.
I don't like it when people say oh those guys aren't duds. Yeah maybe their fine for progressing players, but my loki and ghost rider? rank one. Ghost rider is over, cgr far outshines him and other champions can end fights quicker. Blade is ok but outgrown. Man thing is underrated but hes for synergies and niche fights with lots of buffs. Dormamu? Absolute garbage. One of my first five stars. Commited to learning him. He's bad. Two hit combs can keep the opponent from ever throwing a speical but it takes so long and his energy damage can be used against him so much nowadays. Yeah quake is broken, but Id rather throw one special two with ghost than spend 1 minute holding heavy and dexing.
Quake and Ghost are two different champions doing different things. No one's asking you to Quake everything but that doesn't mean she's bad.
Plus, in your earlier comment, how can you compare Void to Doom, they do different things. Just because YOU don't use certain champions doesn't mean others don't.
Where do the rest of the mystics fall in? You left out dormammu, Diablo, ghost rider, loki, mangog manthing. I mean sure, if you leave most of the mystics out, it does seem science has more studs. At least attempt to look fair mate.😂
Btw just realized, this goes against your own argument, if science has more duds that just gives more reason to give ant man an overhaul lol.
I do want to buff antman remember. How does it go against my argument. BTW, I don't care if science has more or if mystic has more duds. I am voting for a champion I like to use, not a class I need to be buffed.
Oh and mystic and science aren’t balanced at all lol, otherwise ant man already won and this wouldn’t be a debate
Both classes have pretty equal numbers of useful end game champions.
Even if that were true, the first comment i wrote in the post points out mister negative is releasing, mister fantastic is getting a tune up, and spider man miles morales is getting an overhaul! Mystic has a lot of great champs, issue being they consist if the same purpose. Please read previous posts before mentioning equivalence. These 2 classes are not equal
Again, you will have a overlap of skill set within a class and even outside of a class. For example, Blade was a destroyer of mystics when he came out, now almost everyone goes for HT. There are better bleeders in the game than blade now. So, my blade 5/65 mostly has no use. That does not mean he needs a buff. It just means that my account has developed well enough that I have better champs. Same thing has happened with Gully. What do you mean lot of mystics have the same purpose? A common theme of mystic is stagger and nullify. There will be subtle differences in abilities, but the common theme is still maintained within the class which will cause this problem. Even in the mystic class, Gully is unique because no other mystic can reverse heal. If you want a mystic that other mystics over shadow, Jane foster as far more overlapping utilities than Gully.
Where do the rest of the mystics fall in? You left out dormammu, Diablo, ghost rider, loki, mangog manthing. I mean sure, if you leave most of the mystics out, it does seem science has more studs. At least attempt to look fair mate.😂
Btw just realized, this goes against your own argument, if science has more duds that just gives more reason to give ant man an overhaul lol.
I do want to buff antman remember. How does it go against my argument. BTW, I don't care if science has more or if mystic has more duds. I am voting for a champion I like to use, not a class I need to be buffed.
Oh and mystic and science aren’t balanced at all lol, otherwise ant man already won and this wouldn’t be a debate
Both classes have pretty equal numbers of useful end game champions.
Even if that were true, the first comment i wrote in the post points out mister negative is releasing, mister fantastic is getting a tune up, and spider man miles morales is getting an overhaul! Mystic has a lot of great champs, issue being they consist if the same purpose. Please read previous posts before mentioning equivalence. These 2 classes are not equal
Again, you will have a overlap of skill set within a class and even outside of a class. For example, Blade was a destroyer of mystics when he came out, now almost everyone goes for HT. There are better bleeders in the game than blade now. So, my blade 5/65 mostly has no use. That does not mean he needs a buff. It just means that my account has developed well enough that I have better champs. Same thing has happened with Gully. What do you mean lot of mystics have the same purpose? A common theme of mystic is stagger and nullify. There will be subtle differences in abilities, but the common theme is still maintained within the class which will cause this problem. Even in the mystic class, Gully is unique because no other mystic can reverse heal. If you want a mystic that other mystics over shadow, Jane foster as far more overlapping utilities than Gully.
Difference is, blade has more uses than just fighting mystics, and has a nice regen. Guillys heal reversal is only unique in v5, but most mystics can just stagger regen and carry on with a normal fight.
If you think about it in reality, guilly is as valuable as diablo. She is better than him overall but would that matter if her most useful ability is more potent and common to many other champions? Damage isnt the best either, and all thats left for her is synergies, which are worthless. No immunities either, and a bad defender (to be expected). I think AAR immunity would suffice with a damage increase, and an ability similar to mephistos soul imprisonment.
Comments
I think ant man is great for a buff, and I disagree that because science has more good champs than mystic it means he shouldn’t get a buff, but damn do I not agree with RekMan’s logic, if that’s what it can be called.
#BuffAntman
This means Guillotine is still useful in some places, if you absolutely need a heal reversal champion she can be used. Plus, she is (to my knowledge) the only mystic champion who can heal reverse, which means when looking at gated content like variants or 6.2, she can be useful. With a life steal as well, she can be useful. She is by no means the best, but it is very likely far more Guilly's are being ranked up than Ant men.
Ant man however, has nothing offensive. Glancing slightly reduces parries, poison does less damage than a 1*, fatiuge? Contender for the least useful debuff for offence. He has the square root of nothing going for him. Synergies do not count to make a champion good unless they transform the character a la Abom with Red guardian. Simply having the synergy does not make a champion less worthy of a buff. Take heimdall, people want him buffed even through his synergy is good, take DPXF too, he still deserves a buff. Regardless of the class, or how bad a champion is, synergies alone do not take a champion off the list of deserving a buff.
Looking objectively at Ant man vs Guilly, ant man is by far the worse champion. Guilly can be used, and I'm sure she will get a buff at some point, but right now, ant man is much more deserving
Ant man is much more worthy of a buff based on the fact that mystic and science are two pretty equally balanced classes, and ant man has less (0) useful abilities in end game content
Look at the two champions in a vacuum. Say you’ve started a new account and you are lucky enough to get a 4* out of a PHC early on. If you were given the choice between Guillotine or Antman, you’d be a fool to choose Antman because Guillotine is a far better champion than him. That is a compelling reason to vote Antman here.
That being said, I’m probably voting Guillotine for two reasons. One, she was the four star that popped out of an early PHC for me and carried me through a ton of content in this game years ago. I’ve got a soft spot for her. Two, I think her core soul mechanic is cool and her sp3 is awesome, so I’m excited to see what a modern take on her from Kabam would look like. But I agree with some of the arguments against voting for her, that she’d be plenty good with a moderate update rather than an overhaul.
I also think that a proper Antman overhaul will require animation changes so that we can see Giantman, and I’m not sure if animation changes are on the table for this overhaul (somebody feel free to correct me if I’m wrong here).
Note: I have 6* Antman, unduped. I do not have a 6* Guilly, but I want one even if she doesn’t get the buff.
The winner of the vote won’t be buffed until October/November. That means there are 11-14 buffs between now and then that we don’t know about yet, as I’m not counting the May buffs and Miles since we know about them. Plus, that’s not including any new champs released between now and then either.
The state of a class can change in just a few months. Look at the skill class for example. Since February, Kingpin, Mole Man, Masacre, and Crossbones have all been buffed and become significantly better champs to use (I know Masacre didn’t change much but he is easier to ramp so I’m including just because he was improved even if it was slightly), plus we also had Jabari Panther release in April. All of those champs have really helped give the skill class a boost.
Personally, I voted by comparing each champ’s abilities and utility and what they could do on their own, without any synergies. I also didn’t look at any outgoing synergies that benefit other champs, like how Ghost gets benefits from having Ant-Man on the team. Realistically, each champ should have their own uses and be viable options for completing content. While I’m not saying any of the buff candidates are viable options for content, they each have uses, but Ant-Man has the least uses out of all, which is why I voted for him, even though he’s the one champ in the pool I don’t actually own as a 5 or 6 star.
Plus, in your earlier comment, how can you compare Void to Doom, they do different things. Just because YOU don't use certain champions doesn't mean others don't.
What do you mean lot of mystics have the same purpose? A common theme of mystic is stagger and nullify. There will be subtle differences in abilities, but the common theme is still maintained within the class which will cause this problem. Even in the mystic class, Gully is unique because no other mystic can reverse heal. If you want a mystic that other mystics over shadow, Jane foster as far more overlapping utilities than Gully.