Angela Does Not Work for Biohazard+Bloodletting

Whiskey_PoetWhiskey_Poet Member Posts: 249 ★★
in General Discussion


So, Angela got murdered on this node. Is bloodletting supposed to compute after her sig ability and this is working as intended, or is this a bug, as her sig ability seems like it should lessen the time of bleed from all nodes? Just seeking clarification.
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Comments

  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Whiskey_Poet said:

    @Pulyaman , she is max sig. It is more a question for Kabam.

    Alright. :)
  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    TyEdge said:

    People always wanna multiply but it’s addition and subtraction. It’s +100%. Omega Red has a similar issue with nodes that cause extra bleed potency. People want to apply masteries, say it’s zero, and that 40% more than zero is still zero, but that isn’t the right calculation.

    Actually, I think OR does not take bleed damage even from nodes with more potency if you have 1 point in coagulate.
  • PulyamanPulyaman Member Posts: 2,365 ★★★★★
    Hazzalec1 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    TyEdge said:

    People always wanna multiply but it’s addition and subtraction. It’s +100%. Omega Red has a similar issue with nodes that cause extra bleed potency. People want to apply masteries, say it’s zero, and that 40% more than zero is still zero, but that isn’t the right calculation.

    Actually, I think OR does not take bleed damage even from nodes with more potency if you have 1 point in coagulate.
    He does. I had 1/3 in coagulate and went on a lane with enhanced bleed and biohazard or caltrops (can’t exactly remember) and he took damage. I have made a thread on this a while ago.

    I’m assuming it’s the same thing OP.
    Ok, thanks. I have not noticed that, is there anywhere I can check this?
  • MCOCHazzaMCOCHazza Member Posts: 894 ★★★
    Pulyaman said:

    Hazzalec1 said:

    Pulyaman said:

    TyEdge said:

    People always wanna multiply but it’s addition and subtraction. It’s +100%. Omega Red has a similar issue with nodes that cause extra bleed potency. People want to apply masteries, say it’s zero, and that 40% more than zero is still zero, but that isn’t the right calculation.

    Actually, I think OR does not take bleed damage even from nodes with more potency if you have 1 point in coagulate.
    He does. I had 1/3 in coagulate and went on a lane with enhanced bleed and biohazard or caltrops (can’t exactly remember) and he took damage. I have made a thread on this a while ago.

    I’m assuming it’s the same thing OP.
    Ok, thanks. I have not noticed that, is there anywhere I can check this?
    There’s a path in act 5 when I did exploration. It’s in 5.4.6, portal to the biohazard and bleed and poison lane. Both of those have an enhanced bleed fight, I believe. On the biohazard path it’s deadpool, the third opponent on the path, and in the bleed path, it’s BPCW, the first opponent. I just remember doing it a while back and being like ‘why am I taking damage if I have 100% bleed resistance’ and then I understood.
  • Whiskey_PoetWhiskey_Poet Member Posts: 249 ★★
    How it reads, it is still funny math. If they increase the duration of the original bleed, her sig ability should reduce the percentage of the total. If it extends the duration of the actual bleed, it would extend a percentage of zero if she has three buffs. They are using really funny math.
    In the separate thread, there is a workaround by using Odin prefight abilities for extra buffs, but one shouldn't have to use it.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Member Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    Whiskey_Poet said:

    @ItsDamien, if you double something (200%), then reduce that by 100%, you get zero. That's math. I see what they are doing, but it is funny math.

    If you reduce a percentage by a percentage it doesn't get rid of the entire percentage. Because that's not how percentages work. If you take a fraction of a fraction, you still end up with a fraction.
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,118 ★★★★★
    As @ItsDamien said 100%-100% from 200% is still 100%

    With angelas sig theres still a 95% duration with 3 buffs due to theres still another 100% duration its like enhance abilities like bleed omega red 1 coagulate is 100% but if higher than 100% like 120% u need more points in it since theres still extra potency to get rid of its why enhance mephisto aura for red hulk to not be damaged by it he needs sig 200 which puts him above the extra damage from it.
  • SaiyanSaiyan Member Posts: 727 ★★★★
    You're probably gonna need Odin or Haimdall to add extra buffs at the start to deal with this one.
  • DjinDjin Member Posts: 1,962 ★★★★★
    Whiskey_Poet said:

    7.5 increased by 100% is 15. 15 decreased by 100% is zero. Or 7.5 decreased by 100% is zero. Increase zero by 100% is still zero.

    What you are doing is multiplicative.
    But the implementation in MCOC is additive.
    Different games use different methods.
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • Whiskey_PoetWhiskey_Poet Member Posts: 249 ★★
    Haji_Saab said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    I get what you are saying. The only thing is that it causes a problem of which percentage takes priority. Kabam have used a simple solution for that. A percentage is applied on a base stat and then added together. This is the general rule (exceptions might exist).

    If you apply the percentages to a set time number, any order gives you zero. That's why I'm saying it is funny math.
    Again, I see what they are doing, but mathematically, by reading the descriptions and applying the numbers, it is incorrect.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,127 ★★★★★
    Djin said:

    Whiskey_Poet said:

    7.5 increased by 100% is 15. 15 decreased by 100% is zero. Or 7.5 decreased by 100% is zero. Increase zero by 100% is still zero.

    What you are doing is multiplicative.
    But the implementation in MCOC is additive.
    Different games use different methods.
    Kabam could fix make half these questions go away by listing it in game as “+100% bleed duration” or something like that. The other half would still ask anyway.

    (I do think it is a fair question given the ambiguity, though.)
  • Whiskey_PoetWhiskey_Poet Member Posts: 249 ★★
    The thing is, why doesn't her sig ability apply to the additional duration? It doesn't say that it applies to only one part of a node? It reduces bleed by % per buff on her. Why would it not apply to the duration from Bloodletting as much as it applies to Biohazard in the first place. It is wrong, with or without delving into the math.
  • ItsDamienItsDamien Member Posts: 5,626 ★★★★★
    Whiskey_Poet said:

    The thing is, why doesn't her sig ability apply to the additional duration? It doesn't say that it applies to only one part of a node? It reduces bleed by % per buff on her. Why would it not apply to the duration from Bloodletting as much as it applies to Biohazard in the first place. It is wrong, with or without delving into the math.

    My guess is that the sig ability is applied before nodes.

    -105% (sig) + 100% (biohazard) + 100% (bloodletting) = 0.95
  • Whiskey_PoetWhiskey_Poet Member Posts: 249 ★★
    @ItsDamien, I'm sure you are right. Never doubted that. That's the way it seems to be set up. Just wondering from Kabam why it is set up that way, because that isn't the way it reads or "should" work. *shrug*
  • Dart1981Dart1981 Member Posts: 232 ★★★
    ItsDamien said:

    Whiskey_Poet said:

    The thing is, why doesn't her sig ability apply to the additional duration? It doesn't say that it applies to only one part of a node? It reduces bleed by % per buff on her. Why would it not apply to the duration from Bloodletting as much as it applies to Biohazard in the first place. It is wrong, with or without delving into the math.

    My guess is that the sig ability is applied before nodes.

    -105% (sig) + 100% (biohazard) + 100% (bloodletting) = 0.95
    I don't think that's right though, we are talking about durations here, The biohazard isn't 100%, its a value that is being increased or decreased by both Angela's sig ability and bloodletting. The 100% mentioned in the node for Biohazard is the amount of damage. The only way I can imagine Angela taking damage in this instance is if her sig ability only reduces duration of unadjusted amounts as opposed to the increased duration, which is not how her sig is written since she reduces over 105% of damaging debuff duration, which in this case would be 15 seconds (7.5 + 7.5)
  • DjinDjin Member Posts: 1,962 ★★★★★
    Dart1981 said:

    ItsDamien said:

    Whiskey_Poet said:

    The thing is, why doesn't her sig ability apply to the additional duration? It doesn't say that it applies to only one part of a node? It reduces bleed by % per buff on her. Why would it not apply to the duration from Bloodletting as much as it applies to Biohazard in the first place. It is wrong, with or without delving into the math.

    My guess is that the sig ability is applied before nodes.

    -105% (sig) + 100% (biohazard) + 100% (bloodletting) = 0.95
    I don't think that's right though, we are talking about durations here, The biohazard isn't 100%, its a value that is being increased or decreased by both Angela's sig ability and bloodletting. The 100% mentioned in the node for Biohazard is the amount of damage. The only way I can imagine Angela taking damage in this instance is if her sig ability only reduces duration of unadjusted amounts as opposed to the increased duration, which is not how her sig is written since she reduces over 105% of damaging debuff duration, which in this case would be 15 seconds (7.5 + 7.5)
    100% here is 7.5
    100% of x = x


  • xNigxNig Member Posts: 7,336 ★★★★★
    Just to clarify to confusion.

    In this scenario, percentages are applied on the BASE duration.

    So if the bleed lasts for 7.5 seconds (base), bloodletting increases it by 7.5 seconds to 15 seconds.

    Angela's Sig at max (100% reduction for simplicity's sake), reduces the duration by 7.5 seconds, which still leaves a duration for the bleed to tick away at her.

    Most of the stuff in this game is additive and not multiplicative. Makes it simpler.
  • TyEdgeTyEdge Member Posts: 3,127 ★★★★★
    DNA3000 said:

    TyEdge said:

    People always wanna multiply but it’s addition and subtraction.

    In most cases this is true, like in this case specifically, but just FYI I have learned that it is sometimes additive and sometimes multiplicative and the devs decide which depending on how they want the ability/node/effect to work. I was recently corrected on this when it came to Poison: poison's heal reductions are multiplicative, and that's a deliberate design decision, and the devs further clarified that whether effects work additively or multiplicatively is baked into the effects when they are designed, based on what makes the most sense to the designer at the time.

    This is one of the most poorly documented mechanical details in the game. In most cases only experience will tell you which way the effect was implemented in the game.
    Great call. That’s why poisons never reverse healing, right? (Contrast that to petrify). I still feel like the majority of the questions could be addressed by putting a + or x in the text description.
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