Could someone explain something for me please?

I’m not very good at this game, but neither am I completely inept. I can take on enemies ( unbuffed or unassisted) about 3-4K above my champs, and will win a few more than I lose. Most games involving tiered combat works that way as far as my experience goes. You strive to improve, gain experience by taking on higher levels and bosses. But this game uses a mechanic I don’t quite understand?
Why boost bosses way beyond the capability of the player?
For example, if I take my top lvl 3s and a few level 4s , all at around 2.7 - 3.5k , onto a quest , I’ve got a total of about 14k , and the quest recommends, say, 10k . I get in there, and 7 or 8 opponents lie ahead, all about 5k each. So, I battle my way through, use a revive and a few healing pots to get to the boss, and there I find an 8.5k boss glowing orange or purple.?
It doesn’t make any sense? If you then throw in the extremely punishing bleed, degenerate, incinerate etc… you’ve punished severely a player for doing better than their stats suggest, in effect it makes the boss unbeatable and the quest unfinishable.
Look, I know I’ll be accused of being a whiner and a whinge, I don’t care, I’m just genuinely baffled why make a game that is difficult enough to master….impossible to compete.?
Bosses that hard, at the end of a quest that was already extremely brutal is… well, ok, I’ll say it, unfair.
I don’t like easy games. I like my console games on survival or mental, and I love punishing games like the Souls trilogy, but this Marvel Coc is brutally unforgiving for those already trying to punch above their weight. The bosses do not need to be impossible, just difficult.

Comments

  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,498 ★★★★★
    Justiciar said:

    The point of a boss being beyond your rating is to encourage you to rank up champions, come back stronger, bring different counters, learn a new skill etc.

    Yep, in all games, the boss level is your ultimate test, I understand.
    Here’s just one example of the extent it goes beyond just being very tough.
    Yesterday I fought my way through one of the later levels on Heroic on the new quest line , my two best were 4star Doom and Tigra, backed with maxed 3* Widow (D.O) , stealth Spidey, and Nova. Battled through 4.5k -5k enemies, battered and bruised, and come up against a 10k Blade glowing orange. All 5 of my champs wiped out with barely a 5% loss on Blade.
    To me, that’s beyond tough, it’s borderline stupidly unfair.



    You haven't seen these nodes ever being how new you are and the level you're at. Watch this video and it will make more sense.
  • Maltyo9Maltyo9 Posts: 112 ★★
    @Justiciar which fight are you having a particular problem with? If it is a lower level in EQ, many of the people that could help you may have not encountered that particular fight yet. Some screenshots of that, as well as screenshots of your current roster will help us help you immensely
  • abn86abn86 Posts: 87
    Justiciar said:

    I’m not very good at this game, but neither am I completely inept. I can take on enemies ( unbuffed or unassisted) about 3-4K above my champs, and will win a few more than I lose. Most games involving tiered combat works that way as far as my experience goes. You strive to improve, gain experience by taking on higher levels and bosses. But this game uses a mechanic I don’t quite understand?
    Why boost bosses way beyond the capability of the player?
    For example, if I take my top lvl 3s and a few level 4s , all at around 2.7 - 3.5k , onto a quest , I’ve got a total of about 14k , and the quest recommends, say, 10k . I get in there, and 7 or 8 opponents lie ahead, all about 5k each. So, I battle my way through, use a revive and a few healing pots to get to the boss, and there I find an 8.5k boss glowing orange or purple.?
    It doesn’t make any sense? If you then throw in the extremely punishing bleed, degenerate, incinerate etc… you’ve punished severely a player for doing better than their stats suggest, in effect it makes the boss unbeatable and the quest unfinishable.
    Look, I know I’ll be accused of being a whiner and a whinge, I don’t care, I’m just genuinely baffled why make a game that is difficult enough to master….impossible to compete.?
    Bosses that hard, at the end of a quest that was already extremely brutal is… well, ok, I’ll say it, unfair.
    I don’t like easy games. I like my console games on survival or mental, and I love punishing games like the Souls trilogy, but this Marvel Coc is brutally unforgiving for those already trying to punch above their weight. The bosses do not need to be impossible, just difficult.

    So, you can't compare this game to a console fighter. It's not, and it stops trying to be somewhere around act 4, I guess. This game rewards knowledge, but can be punishing until you gain that knowledge. It also places a premium on concepts like intercepting and evading attacks, and punishes you for things like blocked hits/attacks, or only understanding tap, tap, tap.

    This game usually puts the rewards you want a level (or two) above you. This is the part you've kind of caught on to, but in order to get those rewards you need to do exactly as you said - strive to improve and gain experience by taking on higher levels/bosses. Failure is an innate part of this game and something that all of us accepts. Everyone has failed at a boss before. It forces you to get better. You mentioned that you love punishing games. Honestly, this game is what you say you want, you just have to learn more about it.

    Before you ever waste any energy in a quest, make sure to check the node. You will either notice it as orange or purple if it's linked. Once you know the nodes, looks for counters. If you don't understand counters, you can literally go into YT and type in exactly what to do, or ask here.

    Also, you may know this already, but if not, each champion has strengths/weaknesses. One of the things you shouldn't always concern yourself with is class disadvantage/advantage and it's the easiest way to really get lost in this game. Just because skill has a PI advantage over science doesn't mean Nick Fury is a good champ against Abomination.

    TL;DR This game is nuanced and you need to understand it better. Know what champions can/can't do and the types of node interactions and you will be able to take on harder content.
  • DarkEternityDarkEternity Posts: 470 ★★★
    Hey! So, what you were talking about there are nodes. They are made to add an extra challenge like bleed, poison, rewards for knocking the opponent down, etc. You can view the nodes of opponents by tapping on them on the map. This allows you to then choose what champions to bring. For example, if you check your Doom’s champion abilities he is immune to armor break, shock, and can apply shock. Knowledge of these abilities will allow you to better plan for future nodes and abilities. For example, say there’s a node that inflicts shock damage. If you use your Doom then you’re able to be immune to this node and therefore be safe. If you don’t enjoy this style of play then more than likely this game isn’t for you. It will only get tougher and it can be quite challenging. Best of luck to you!
  • xNigxNig Posts: 5,884 ★★★★★
    You might wanna work on the lower difficulty levels first to hone your skills, and gradually get used to tackling harder opponents.

    Don’t worry. Like everything, it takes time. You’ll eventually be able to handle it, even with your current champs. Just takes some practice.
  • AMS94AMS94 Posts: 74

    Justiciar said:

    The point of a boss being beyond your rating is to encourage you to rank up champions, come back stronger, bring different counters, learn a new skill etc.

    Yep, in all games, the boss level is your ultimate test, I understand.
    Here’s just one example of the extent it goes beyond just being very tough.
    Yesterday I fought my way through one of the later levels on Heroic on the new quest line , my two best were 4star Doom and Tigra, backed with maxed 3* Widow (D.O) , stealth Spidey, and Nova. Battled through 4.5k -5k enemies, battered and bruised, and come up against a 10k Blade glowing orange. All 5 of my champs wiped out with barely a 5% loss on Blade.
    To me, that’s beyond tough, it’s borderline stupidly unfair.



    You haven't seen these nodes ever being how new you are and the level you're at. Watch this video and it will make more sense.
    I don't think Heroic blade has the same nodes as Cav one
    I don't think Heroic level players have been introduced to Flux Dispersal & Life Cycle
  • KerneasKerneas Posts: 2,049 ★★★★★
    There are couple things you need to understand:

    1) as you learn more about the game mechanics, you will be able to kill opponents with higher score. Realistically, 2-3x your score is an average fight (so with 3k champion, you should eventually be able to solo-kill a 6-9k enemy).

    2) those purple/orange things are called "nodes". They give the champion an extra ability and also increase their score. There are 3 types:
    Orange - local node. It boosts a champion who stands on the map position
    Purple - linked node. This one can be removed via defeating another champ on one of the paths (they are marked if you look at the maps closely. Thise who boost others have a purple symbol in their top right corner)
    Grey - global node. This one affects each and every champion on the whole map. Of course, just like linked nodes it must have some source. There will be champs on the map with a grey globe in their top right corner

    3) this game is a lot about strategy and planning. You told us about some bleed&degen. First off you need to read the champion's abilities and also the nodes he has in the quest. Then you can come up with a counter. Example: the boss has a node that says "inflict a bleed, dealing 100% of attacker's max hp over 60 seconds". What do you do? Yes, you take a bleed immune champion and the problem is solved (in this case you could take in Omega Red but let's not make it overly complicated)

    4) boss - bosses have a higher score than other champions, that's true. But you also have all 5 of your champions to deal with that one. If you go in and take 20% of his hp with each of your champions, you win, because you can chip away the health with all your team members, one by one.
  • DeliDeli Posts: 286 ★★
    “Rank up champs, go learn a new skill, come back stronger, learn a new counter”

    The honest answer is they want you to spend money
    The game is either a huge time waster or spend money to get through

    And they want you to spend money or spend time
    The more time played the better the game looks on paper
    Reason for unnecessary animations or long wait times

    So it in turns causes impatience and therefore spend to get through
  • LeNoirFaineantLeNoirFaineant Posts: 6,909 ★★★★★
    Deli said:

    “Rank up champs, go learn a new skill, come back stronger, learn a new counter”

    The honest answer is they want you to spend money
    The game is either a huge time waster or spend money to get through

    And they want you to spend money or spend time
    The more time played the better the game looks on paper
    Reason for unnecessary animations or long wait times

    So it in turns causes impatience and therefore spend to get through

    Of course they want you to spend money or time. The game isn't free to make. But that's not why the game is hard for OP. They also want a challenging and fun game. If there weren't things to learn and obstacles to overcome the game would be boring and no one would play it.
  • gohard123gohard123 Posts: 910 ★★★
    There is direct evidence that this game allows you to punch above your weight. Just look at the new side accounts started by YouTubers (e.g. Brian Grant, Lagacy, Seatin, KT1). These guys have played the game so they have the skill hence they can punch up. The only thing preventing you from punching up is the skill and experience.
  • BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 4,424 ★★★★★
    Deli said:

    “Rank up champs, go learn a new skill, come back stronger, learn a new counter”

    The honest answer is they want you to spend money
    The game is either a huge time waster or spend money to get through

    And they want you to spend money or spend time
    The more time played the better the game looks on paper
    Reason for unnecessary animations or long wait times

    So it in turns causes impatience and therefore spend to get through

    A company? Wanting to make money?

    Blasphemy!
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 12,498 ★★★★★
    Deli said:

    “Rank up champs, go learn a new skill, come back stronger, learn a new counter”

    The honest answer is they want you to spend money
    The game is either a huge time waster or spend money to get through

    And they want you to spend money or spend time
    The more time played the better the game looks on paper
    Reason for unnecessary animations or long wait times

    So it in turns causes impatience and therefore spend to get through

    Top fan for Prof Hoff I assume?
  • DawsManDawsMan Posts: 754 ★★★

    Deli said:

    “Rank up champs, go learn a new skill, come back stronger, learn a new counter”

    The honest answer is they want you to spend money
    The game is either a huge time waster or spend money to get through

    And they want you to spend money or spend time
    The more time played the better the game looks on paper
    Reason for unnecessary animations or long wait times

    So it in turns causes impatience and therefore spend to get through

    Top fan for Prof Hoff I assume?
    I betcha he's waiting for iHulk to clear 6.1 because he's immune to no retreat degen...
  • Malreck04Malreck04 Posts: 408 ★★★
    It was an alright post until you said you were a fan of the Souls games. Sorry, you really need to practice your basics in this game
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